The Expanded Antler Restrictions - Who is excited?

[Bow Hunter Addict]

Even if you have your own management plan in place this will help. Bucks will travel a long ways looking for love. New York’s biggest problem is the doe to buck ratio is way out of wack. The rut here is very weak compared to other parts of the country. The more bucks the more competition for breeding. This means the big boys will have to travel farther to find a doe in estrus.(Better chance to see a mature deer during daylight) This will also help insure the majority of does get breed in their first cycle. Which in turns leads to earlier births for fawns. a fawn born to a mother breed in her 2nd cycle 28 days after first is at a huge disadvantage.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

If there is more competition between bucks that usually include some pretty intense physical combat. Has anyone ever seen any study on these effects going into winters and survival rates?

[PostedBoys Gallego]

I do not hunt in any off the AR units, my only concern is I think some brown and down hunters will seek other places with better odds of harvesting whatever passes by. Which is well within there right if done so legally. Just a bummer seeing deer you let walk all bow season that have potential to become quite impressive and able to carry on there gene pool for more years stuffed in the back of a mini van on opening day.

Sad but true. In the end, the reason I hunt first and foremost is to fill the freezer since I do not buy industrial meat. Therefore, since the area I hunt gives little to no doe permits, I need to move around to areas with more deer to increase my chances of filling the freezer. Your place sounds nice, coordinates?

[WNY Bowhunter]

I'm still undecided on them. They may help in the eastern half of the state...but a 3-pt. rule will do nothing here in WNY if the goal is to produce more/bigger bucks. What we need is more ECO officers!!!

Edited July 12, 2012 by WNY Bowhunter

[adirondackbushwhack]

That is an average of 20 bucks a season.....you don't see 20 bucks a season?

There are lots of places in ny where seeing 20 bucks in a season is rare. Where I hunt in the dacks I never see 20 bucks in a season. On my property in the southern zone I might have seen that many in a week before the poaching got bad and now Im lucky to see 5 in a season so it all depends on location and hunting pressure in an area. 20 buck in a season is low for some places and impossible for others.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

There are lots of places in ny where seeing 20 bucks in a season is rare. Where I hunt in the dacks I never see 20 bucks in a season. On my property in the southern zone I might have seen that many in a week before the poaching got bad and now Im lucky to see 5 in a season so it all depends on location and hunting pressure in an area. 20 buck in a season is low for some places and impossible for others.

I agree. Where I hunt up North you probably woulnd't see that many either. I was speaking more to the fact it was called a BS claim. 20 is very doable in many areas of the state.

[DEADDEER1]

well im in 8y so im not excited the whole frigen state should be AR unless your a kid!

these grown men who kill 1 1/2 old deer left and right are just plan pathetic!! nys has great potential to be on the map for big bucks you wont have big bucks like we should if these ignorant un skilled so called hunters keep killing spikes small 6 points 4 pts half racks ect.

O look a deer boom woo i killed a 4 point is embarassing if you ask me its like having a small dink or a ugly wife..........

hunt for trophy class 125" or better Bucks even a 115" (decent 8point ect)

("where I hunt there isnt a 115 ' buck") thats because you kill all the 1 1/2 olds every yr ect!!

this meat hunter bs is bs, you want meat shoot a doe or go to the grocery store..!! to all you small buck killers do your self a favor and step your game up will ya save some Bucks for the upcoming hunters ect!! you watch in 2 yrs the ar areas will have better class bucks guaranteed.. Its a shame that a law has to be put in place for a hunter to make the right decision.. with that said i hope everyone has a succesful safe 2012 deer season!!

Dont shoot a small garbage buck!!!

Edited July 12, 2012 by DEADDEER1

[SteveB]

Oh boy

[Culvercreek hunt club]

And there is the poster child for what is REALLY wrong with the sport

[Pygmy]

What about us poor guys who have a small dink, an ugly wife AND like to shoot 4 points ??

I must be a THREE TIME loser !!...

I guess I should shoot myself...

On second thought, it's time for my NAP...

Edited July 12, 2012 by Pygmy

[PostedBoys Gallego]

What happened to the good ol days when hunting was more about filling your freezer and hanging with family and friends. When any deer harvested was great without having to score inches or age? I still hunt this way like it or not. 8Y here i come!

Edited July 12, 2012 by PostedBoys Gallego

[gunner1]

I think that these AR's are a load of CRAP and a product of political pandering! Since when does hunting HAVE to be about killing big bucks? My dad just loves to eat venison, NOT ANTLERS!! As a matter of fact we live in 4S and can anyone tell me how many doe permits were given out last year? Those who said 0 can pat yourselves on the back. If you want better hunting by improving buck to doe ratios you have to kill more does!! There are states where you HAVE TO EARN a buck tag by killing a doe first and they produce beautifully racked bucks. Think about it: how many more does do you see than bucks? Alot right? A two year old doe will have twins pretty much every year if the food supply is there. Usually, there is one of each sex. That doe fawn can be bred in the late rut and have her first fawn the following spring. If there are alot of does around, bucks don't have to travel far to breed. However, if you want them running around like you see in the hunting videos, you need fewer does. Plain and simple. I know of several people who have said that if they have AR's in their areas they will stop hunting altogether! Is that what we want? The arrogance of most bowhunters and all trophy hunters in this state really pisses me off! All you hear is "our deer" this and "my deer" that. Give me a break. If they really must do these AR's then it should only be on PUBLIC LAND! The area I hunt is all private land and if we want to shoot a forkhorn for some meat and it's done legally and ethically there should be NO problems with it by anyone.

Edited July 12, 2012 by gunner1

[PostedBoys Gallego]

0 the past 3 years.

[growalot]

O look a deer boom woo i killed a 4 point is embarassing if you ask me its like having a small dink or a ugly wife..........

......or....

real small breast and ugly small dinked husband....Hahaha...Thank God I choose the pass small buck....eeehhh gads!!

[Culvercreek hunt club]

......or....

real small breast and ugly small dinked husband....Hahaha...Thank God I choose the pass small buck....eeehhh gads!!

Thanks Grow, we need to make sure every one here is an equal opportunity abuser...lol

[growalot]

Just doing my part ...no thanks needed....lol

[Meat Hunter]

Ok let’s clear some things up. Deer are a resource- A Limited Resource- so just because you want to kill more does not mean that the resource can provide/ survive that. NY has vastly different habitat so in 3A high peaks of the Catskills they take 1.2 bucks per sq mile and close to 0 does, and in western NY for example 8R, 9H and 9N the average buck take is 4.6 per sq mile and total deer take is 13.26 per SQ mile. Looks like almost 13 times more deer are taken.

If the DEC issued more antlerless tags in 4S then you will have less deer in the future to hunt. Killing does results in less deer and in low productivity areas you will feel the over harvest for years. Ask some of the hunters in the Catskills where doe tags were doubled when the deer population was at 22 year lows and bad winter’s occurred.

The reason that hunters see few adult bucks is because the majority of bucks in the state are killed as yearlings. Factor in the unreported yearlings kill and you can see that very few bucks survive to 2.5 +.

If these deer are not harvested, they will grow up and get multiple points- you can check out the DEC harvest reports. Even though you may see bucks with a narrow spread THE VAST MAJORITY have a specific inch spread at a specific age. So by setting a point or spread standard the age at which bucks are harvested can be controlled.

And genes will not be changed in a wild population by an antler restriction. First 50% of the genes come from the doe which is not affected by buck harvest. Second, hunters will not be removing all of the largest bucks, just some. And in practice a couple years in to an AR program the hunters will know that there are better adult bucks out there and will not harvest yearling bucks that just meet the standard. Remember in NY’s AR areas only 15% of the harvest is yearlings and that includes the yearling buck harvest from youth that are exempt from the program.

Currently adult bucks are like unicorns in some areas of NY and as such many hunters feel they will never see one but rest assured when yearling bucks are protected you will see many and be very happy. I talk to those folks all the time and I am one.

I am just a meat hunter and the average size of my buck has gone from 80 LBs dressed to 130 LBs and we have gotten some 165 lb 2.5 year olds. I can not wait to get a 3.5 as they are often 200 lbs. I now see bucks fighting which is really cool. And yes they sometimes have nicks and scrapes but nothing life threatening. Calling and rattleling work really well. And there are scrap lines and rubs that are being used by all deer. This is what a more natural deer herd is like and it is great.

So in the outstanding areas western and central NY the potential is so incredibly high that is a travesty to not protected yearling bucks. It is like having a winning lottery ticket and letting it expire without ever cashing it in.

For all you naysayers, 90% of you will love ARs after a couple years. It is kind of funny that you’re so opposed now but will really like it once it is in place. I have seen it with so many hunters. Trust common sense, sound science and the proven results in NY and in other states, for example Missouri and vastly improve your hunting starting now. We all have only limited time to hunt so the sooner we make this improvement the sooner we will have the best hunting of our lives.

[Skillet]

I am a freezer filler, not a trophy hunter. Some people say, "that's fine just let the small bucks go by, and shoot a doe" No, I'm going to shoot what I see, until I get enough to fill the freezer, I'm not going to pass a forkie in hopes of killing a doe who may not come along. I get a lot of vacation, and a lot of time to hunt, but it's my hunt. As soon as the freezer's full, I'm going back to squirrel hunting anyhow. Antlers are nice, everyone likes them, but they are not my focus. If a nice 4.5 came along & I happened to kill him, cool. If not, oh well, I'll gladly take his little buddy. Once AR's get to my area, I'm done deer hunting, I'll be a full time squirrel killer. Until they start a QSM program, then I'll take up knitting.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Skillet

[Culvercreek hunt club]

. Once AR's get to my area, I'm done deer hunting, I'll be a full time squirrel killer. Until they start a QSM program, then I'll take up knitting.

I am not familiar with that....do they guage it by the spread of their nuts?

[Fairgame]

When you start knitting are you going straight for the challenge like a sweater or are you starting with socks first?

[TheHunter]

I am a freezer filler, not a trophy hunter. Some people say, "that's fine just let the small bucks go by, and shoot a doe" No, I'm going to shoot what I see, until I get enough to fill the freezer, I'm not going to pass a forkie in hopes of killing a doe who may not come along. I get a lot of vacation, and a lot of time to hunt, but it's my hunt. As soon as the freezer's full, I'm going back to squirrel hunting anyhow. Antlers are nice, everyone likes them, but they are not my focus. If a nice 4.5 came along & I happened to kill him, cool. If not, oh well, I'll gladly take his little buddy. Once AR's get to my area, I'm done deer hunting, I'll be a full time squirrel killer. Until they start a QSM program, then I'll take up knitting.

When you start knitting are you going straight for the challenge like a sweater or are you starting with socks first?

Or maybe a hat that says brown its down.

[TheHunter]

Ok let’s clear some things up. Deer are a resource- A Limited Resource- so just because you want to kill more does not mean that the resource can provide/ survive that. NY has vastly different habitat so in 3A high peaks of the Catskills they take 1.2 bucks per sq mile and close to 0 does, and in western NY for example 8R, 9H and 9N the average buck take is 4.6 per sq mile and total deer take is 13.26 per SQ mile. Looks like almost 13 times more deer are taken.

If the DEC issued more antlerless tags in 4S then you will have less deer in the future to hunt. Killing does results in less deer and in low productivity areas you will feel the over harvest for years. Ask some of the hunters in the Catskills where doe tags were doubled when the deer population was at 22 year lows and bad winter’s occurred.

The reason that hunters see few adult bucks is because the majority of bucks in the state are killed as yearlings. Factor in the unreported yearlings kill and you can see that very few bucks survive to 2.5 +.

If these deer are not harvested, they will grow up and get multiple points- you can check out the DEC harvest reports. Even though you may see bucks with a narrow spread THE VAST MAJORITY have a specific inch spread at a specific age. So by setting a point or spread standard the age at which bucks are harvested can be controlled.

And genes will not be changed in a wild population by an antler restriction. First 50% of the genes come from the doe which is not affected by buck harvest. Second, hunters will not be removing all of the largest bucks, just some. And in practice a couple years in to an AR program the hunters will know that there are better adult bucks out there and will not harvest yearling bucks that just meet the standard. Remember in NY’s AR areas only 15% of the harvest is yearlings and that includes the yearling buck harvest from youth that are exempt from the program.

Currently adult bucks are like unicorns in some areas of NY and as such many hunters feel they will never see one but rest assured when yearling bucks are protected you will see many and be very happy. I talk to those folks all the time and I am one.

I am just a meat hunter and the average size of my buck has gone from 80 LBs dressed to 130 LBs and we have gotten some 165 lb 2.5 year olds. I can not wait to get a 3.5 as they are often 200 lbs. I now see bucks fighting which is really cool. And yes they sometimes have nicks and scrapes but nothing life threatening. Calling and rattleling work really well. And there are scrap lines and rubs that are being used by all deer. This is what a more natural deer herd is like and it is great.

So in the outstanding areas western and central NY the potential is so incredibly high that is a travesty to not protected yearling bucks. It is like having a winning lottery ticket and letting it expire without ever cashing it in.

For all you naysayers, 90% of you will love ARs after a couple years. It is kind of funny that you’re so opposed now but will really like it once it is in place. I have seen it with so many hunters. Trust common sense, sound science and the proven results in NY and in other states, for example Missouri and vastly improve your hunting starting now. We all have only limited time to hunt so the sooner we make this improvement the sooner we will have the best hunting of our lives.

Well said.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

why dance around this. If the brass ring is so easily reached and the benefits so great. Ban all bone hunting for 3 years then make the buck tags on a lottery draw like some of the western states do with their elk. get in an 'any buck' or 'trophy buck' draw. If the importance of this to the herd is so great hunting should take second seat. If you don't draw...shot does...if you cant hunt in an area with permits, stay home.

[TheHunter]

You seem to think it's to grow bigger bucks to kill... that my friend is the wrong reason to havee antler restrictions.

Your wrong, I'm well aware that its just one by products of a properly managed and age diverse herd. The area's with AR's are not like some of these area's y'all hunt where the soil pukes with nutrients and there are farms all over the place. The AR zones have more hunters, stress, pressure, and other factors that those up further North do not see. I want to see the deer population thrive, and once my kids are old enough they will have something to hunt. Half the thrill is the chance to see a big guy out there, and when they do not exists or are so rare its considered a myth its clear there is a problem with the age structure and things need to change. More meat, bigger deer, bigger antlers, more action in the woods, healthier herd... It works in the zones that have it, it will work in the zones that are getting it and it works in other states that have implemented it. Its it the best way, nope, but its a start.

[pistolp71]

My area 4O, has just been added. I'm actually a little torn on the whole AR thing. I personally don't shoot little bucks anyway so it won't directly affect me. But, don't know that I like the state telling someone how big of a buck to shoot. To some people a nice healthy forkhorn is a trophy, and that's fine. I've been hunting that zone for almost 25 yrs, and am curious to see if and how it changes things.