2013 aint lookin' good..

[wooly]

I know, it's still a little early for next years predictions but I'm curious what you guys are seeing in your areas. I suspect a lot of the same from many of you.

Here, most primary food sources have already been depleted. The few fields that were planted in corn have been picked over since early November. Deer in my area rely heavily on apples durring lean times. A terrible year for mast across the board is really gonna put a stress on them in the coming months. Add to that, signs of overbrowsing in a lot of areas that usually offer some greens this time of year in the thickets and creekbottoms.

I think excluding this year, the last bunch of seasons we've seen some excellent numbers of deer and that may be catching up with us. I'm thinking our population may have peaked, and perhaps exceeded what the habitat could support.

Yotes also seem to be at an all time high in my neck of the woods. There weren't too many days durring archery that I didn't see at least one over a couple of hours here and there. Surprisingly, over the summer I'd get more trail cam pics of coyotes than I did bucks of any calibur. Good chance they'll be fat and happy on carcasses this winter and enter the fawning season in excellent condition.

JMHO- but I'm guessing if we get any kind of winter like we're capable of here in ski country, our local herd is going to take a pretty hard hit in the winterkill department as well. That's just another reason I've been hanging on to this doe tag with some hesitation. But in the same breath, I may be doing her a favor if my prediction is anything close to being right.

So how's things looking your way?

[Gthphtm]

You must be a young fellow that has not witnessed a real winter that we had in the past as( multiple feet of snow and weeks of below 0 degrees weather). and the deer have lived threw them.

[wooly]

You must be a young fellow that has not witnessed a real winter that we had in the past as( multiple feet of snow and weeks of below 0 degrees weather). and the deer have lived threw them.

Oh contrare mon frare! Been doing this too long to not notice the changes in my area.

[Five Seasons]

in agreement on you with the apples. and the mild winter led to a bigger heard this year which i also agree led to some overgrazing. The true test will be if we get another mild or a severe winter

[biggamefish]

Everybody that I know that has taken a deer said they were filthy with fat. I shot one and it didn't have that much. So I think it is just where you are. The deer have more of a drive to live than we do so I am sure we won't loose two many.

[arrow nocker]

deer are used to hard winters where i live.I usually have tons of snow by now.I am in the "but hole"of the snow belt.Its pivot point.

[Fletch]

Deer are fine until March then if we get deep snow that lasts for weeks on end then we worry. Otherwise the deer will be fine. And that is only in the ares that get that kind of snow that lasts, basically from me up through the tug. Rest of the state usually has ne worries over winterkill.

That being said I had no apples any of the spots I hunt this year and 5 of the 6 deer we have shot were fat fat fat.

[wooly]

Understood guys. I figured this would be somewhat of a regional topic. Probably to the point of only affecting certain areas of wmu's so it's good to hear some of your herds should be in good shape.

Obviously, only time will tell.

[AaronBlaine]

good post very interesting! I def noticed some fat deer in 7s this past weekend. Friggin huge does and even bigger bucks!

[growalot]

I can't say until I shoot my next doe..hopefully tomorrow...but my plots are down to dirt and rocks and that was a week or so ago....I worry because we've had a crazy amount of prime vacant land...old hay fields....turned in to winter/spring waste lands do to the new corn fields.....this farmer crop rotates on a yearly not seasonal bases...that is not summer corn/WW/Corn but......... corn only for several years then alfalfa for several years.

Our deer do have the option to move south and to the farmer that does do a good seasonal rotation....giving them food for winter....then they'll return to the usual fawning spots...us being one....I think a late March April deep snow will hit any mature depleted buck though.....

[NFA-ADK]

I think a late March April deep snow will hit any mature depleted buck though.

Couldn't agree with you more.

Bases on what I saw in tracks I would say the wilderness area I hunt has a small stable population of mixed aged deer. The winters always worry me as they hit hard from the western boarder to east of albany and everything north. 7 inches of snow in inlet before I hit the road home and still snowing... Another reason I admire deer so much, they are TRUE surviviors!

[First-light]

Hey "young fella" do you think there is anything wrong with packing up the pumpkins that were used for halloween

and throwing them in the woods for the critters to eat? I have been collecting them at home from all my neighbors, they either go to the critters or the landfill?? Doesn't seem bad up by me in 8P but the apples were hurting this year.

[Doc]

Yes, we had no apples and no acorns (and I mean NONE). That's two pretty good hits on food sources in an area that is not agricultural. Our habitat has gone way past prime and is now entering the "mature forest" stage of re-growth. And yes the mild winter meant a more prolific fawning season with more fawns and more fawns surviving. Sounds a bit grim, until you realize that deer have survived on a lot of things other than apples and acorns for a lot of centuries. In fact they are very adaptable. Also they look in amazing shape and everyone that I have talked to have reported some very heavy fat reserves.

I have seen no browse-lines or any other indication of a stressed habitat. I have also noted that we are a week into December, and I have not had to plow snow once yet. That is extremely rare. So far there are a lot of similarities to the mild winter of last year (I hope I haven't jinxed it now). I realize that the nature of a winter can change on a dime.

It will also be interesting to see how the harvest went this year with only one day so far with enough snow to silhouette the deer and no significant snow in the forecast for the forseeable future. There might be a few surprises locally in the ability for hunters to even see the deer.

The only real harm that the lost apple and acorn crop created was a confusing hunting season with old patterns turned on their head and scattered feeding that didn't concentrate deer into good visible patterns.

Frankly I am looking forward to next year. I am hoping for a normal apple crop and/or acorn crop. I am expecting the woods to be filled with deer, and hopefully the traditional deer movement patterns will return.

That is the view from our little local area. I'm sure others have some very different conditions and outlooks.

[G-Man]

My 7 acres of corn normally lasts untill spring, was gone by early november, no mast at all hard or soft, deer are in fields at night eating anything green they can, if we get any significant snow fall and it stays the herd will have winter loss. Yes they are fat now, but the bucks aren't they are just entering their rebuilding phase, and there are slim pickings already. We are only in the first week of dec. Winter doesnt end for the deer till spring green up, sometimes late april early may if we have a late spring. Yes some animal will make it through but antler growth will be effected next year beyond a doubt, as may fawning rates. Not to be doom and gloom but the writing is on the wall for a bad year for deer next year....

[wooly]

Hey "young fella" do you think there is anything wrong with packing up the pumpkins that were used for halloween

and throwing them in the woods for the critters to eat? I have been collecting them at home from all my neighbors, they either go to the critters or the landfill?? Doesn't seem bad up by me in 8P but the apples were hurting this year.

I'm not a fan of voicing my own beliefs outside the rule book, but I can assure you if things get too severe at some point, supplemental feed may become an important part of their diets to pull through some areas.

Lots of good points made here folks. Good to see a lot of you keeping a close eye on what's happening on your properties and the challenges these deer herds may face in the coming months.

[tughillhunter]

my standing corn plot got wiped out. same with apples and acorns, zilch. oddly though, the soybeans barely got touched so far, which i think is extremely wierd.

[WNYBuckHunter]

It actually looks fine in all 3 areas I have hunted this year. Except for the buck I shot, all of the deer I have taken have had an abundance of fat on them. We didnt have squat for apples, and the mast got eaten up quick, but I think there are enough blow downs and browse to get them through just fine.

[accman]

We do a coyote hunt in February, haven't been successful, but it's a good reason to get out and scout out the area. Last year I sat in one spot, saw 42 deer come by. We had 2 walkers, and they just pushed them around. First saw 22 does came right by me, single file, then another 5, then 3. Then, to my left started the buck parade, first 4 small ones, spikes and fours, followed 1 minute later by 4 fours and sixes, and following them were the 4 eights and tens. It was awesome, all within 75 yards of me. And mid-February, they still had their horns. This years take seemes to follow suite with 10 taken so far, with;

(1) 11, 8, 6, and 5, (2) huge 9's, (2) seven's and (2) fours from our younger hunters.

Last year, I believe we ended up with 12 (7 on opening day), and by the end of the season, we thought they were all gone, just saw a couple of does, and spikes. So, 2 months later to see all those deer and that was all in one area of the property. We do not shoot does on our property, poor management, but owners request. But remember, last year was a very mild winter, so just hope it follows the same path.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I have property that we hunt in 5H, 7R and 8H,. We have had better than usual sitings and our take has been the best year in probably the last 10. I don't have the benefit of Ag crops in two of those areas but 8H is mostly AG. RIght now becasue of weather and sequence we are on the only green rye field in teh block and it is showing. the other two places have many oaks but I didn't wee many acorns.

[G-Man]

Lot of camps had banner years this year, but did u think its because there is no food and deer are forced to travel more to find it? Yes numbers were up due to a mild winter, but food or lack there of is the biggest reason for deer to move and expose themselves. If the deer only have to move 100yrds to a standing cornfield, you wont see much movement unless your on the corn field. Now if they have to move 1 mile to food, a lot more

[landtracdeerhunter]

Their not on the wheat fields here, as heavy. Other years, nothing left. This year, hardly been touched. We have new sources of carbs too, that might make the difference.

Edited December 6, 2012 by landtracdeerhunter

[Culvercreek hunt club]

That was the point i was trying to make G. The AG land in 8H was poor for sightings until the standing corn went down the first week of gun. Now it doesn't seem to matter how many we shoot or how hard we hunt the deer are in the rye field. I believe they are traveling to it. The other two properties the deer wer inthe woods on browes becasue the crops were down where in typical years they wouldn't have been yet.

[wooly]

As long as we're on topic of the whitetail becoming an endangered species by next fall, here's a few more points I thunk up that may be of some relevance as well,lol

As was already touched on in another thread, the lack of snow again this season resulting in many more unrecovered deer. Some guys initial reaction to that may be that they are figured into the total deer take. Correct, and I agree with that, BUT if even a small percentage of those hunters continue to hunt to the point they are sucessfull again, then the numbers really start to add up quick resulting in less animals for next fall.

Looking back on the early green up we had this spring, conditions seemed ideal for optimal antler growth. Judging by some of the sucess stories here, I'd say most will agree with that?

Of course everything that starts early usually winds down early, making available greens tough to find now at a time there should still be some left. Perhaps the drought we suffered this summer will have more of an impact on those green fields getting hit later in the year when deer really start scratching for some grub.

How about the early start to bow season adding another two weeks of pressure to the herd? I know it's low impact bow hunting, but it's quite possible many deer were forced off early fall preffered food sources, and not exactly in prime condition leading into and after the main phases of the rut. Always good to see plenty of fat on our harvests before winter, but it also means theoreticly they will start to tap into those reserves a little earlier than necessary with the lack of primary food source availability.

Anyhow, good discussion for the post season.