How can we get illegal handguns off the street?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Steve and Doe, From the looks of what Elmo posted you two woul dbe better served focusing your attentions in Swaziland, Nigeria and Kenya. Or have they lost that hometome appeal?

[steve863]

Steve and Doe, From the looks of what Elmo posted you two woul dbe better served focusing your attentions in Swaziland, Nigeria and Kenya. Or have they lost that hometome appeal?

We never said Tanzania was civilized. That is why we moved to this country, and boy were we wrong to think that people were anymore civilized here! LOL

Edited December 18, 2012 by steve863

[Doewhacker]

Steve and Doe, From the looks of what Elmo posted you two woul dbe better served focusing your attentions in Swaziland, Nigeria and Kenya. Or have they lost that hometome appeal?

My attentions on what? Pointing out facts that are being misreported on this site? Or me pointing out that some people claim "every one" wants our guns yet can't back their claims up?

Face it, high capacity mags and AR guns are going to be on the hit list along with mental health and background checks. Isn't it better to focus on the reality of whats going to happen rather than what didn't happen?

[steve863]

How many people were killed with a few airplanes in NYC? How many people were killed with diesel fuel and fertilizer in Oklahoma? Want to check out the overseas situation? What is the weapon of choice these days over there? .... A nice self detonated explosive vest. They have figured out that guns are just too slow, individualized and inneffective if you want to create the maximum mayhem. I think you are getting a bit behind the times .... lol. You haven't seen anything yet. Wait until some of these wackos start reading newspapers and seeing how it's done in some of these"civilized nations".

But anyway, what are you arguing? .... That all guns should be made illegal for private ownership? I mean I haven't heard a more impassioned speech for elimination of private firearms ownership since the last Fienstien speech.

I am talking civilized nations here, like Great Britain, Canada, Germany, France, Japan, Norway, etc. I am not freaking talking about Lebanon, Afghanistan or other fleabag nations. Yeah, we had a plane fly into NYC and a bombing in Oklahoma. Name some others??? While there are approximately 80+ murders with firearms each day. You guys can really come up with some BS, I will give you that. Meanwhile you can't fathom that the millions of guns floating around this country just might make it a bit easier for someone to murder in comparison to other methods?? You guys have sang the same lame tune for a LONG time, but like I said, you better buckle up this time, because things are about to change for you. Good luck getting your points of view across to those who are really out to get you!

[virgil]

Steve- when are you gonna learn that you're just pissing in the wind here? You can't reason with extremism and fanaticism. Your points are falling on deaf ears.

By the way, another example of how strict gun laws have had a dramatic effect on violent crime rates is in Australia.

I stayed out of these threads for as long as I could and now I know I will regret jumping in.

[Doc]

I am talking civilized nations here, like Great Britain, Canada, Germany, France, Japan, Norway, etc. I am not freaking talking about Lebanon, Afghanistan or other fleabag nations. Yeah, we had a plane fly into NYC and a bombing in Oklahoma. Name some others??? While there are approximately 80+ murders with firearms each day. You guys can really come up with some BS, I will give you that. Meanwhile you can't fathom that the millions of guns floating around this country just might make it a bit easier for someone to murder in comparison to other methods?? You guys have sang the same lame tune for a LONG time, but like I said, you better buckle up this time, because things are about to change for you. Good luck getting your points of view across to those who are really out to get you!

911 and Oklahoma were not devastating enough for you? How about a few Mosque and church bombings? How long a list do you need before you understand that guns are really quite inefficient at mass murder and that more efficient methods of mayhem are on their way.

It may comfort you to call it BS, but while you and others are working at depriving us all of firearms, you are ignoring the lessons these "fleabag nations" are providing for the wackos of the future.

Oh and by the way that is no great prophecy that you are spouting about how things are going to change. There is no doubt that you and the other anti-gunners will be able to whip up enough fervor and mindless paranoia to convince yourselves that that piece of steel is totally evil and that the elimination of that piece of steel will result in a world of peace and serenity. Kind of sounds like a Disney movie doesn't it? The real shock will come after you have successfully disarmed the citizenry and see the next generation and tools of violence and mayhem.

[steve863]

Steve- when are you gonna learn that you're just pissing in the wind here? You can't reason with extremism and fanaticism. Your points are falling on deaf ears.

I guess their deaf ears are due to too many gunshots over the years?? LOL

I know I won't change their opinions. Only here to tell them that not ALL gun owners think the same way, that's all. Of course one will get ostracized for not being lock-step with them, but I honestly could give a flying F@*k. I call things the way I see them, whether someone wants to agree with me or not.

[virgil]

I hear you- and I think it's important that the general public see that not all gun owners and sportsmen are fanatics as well. When the public sees a group that's opposed to any and all compromise of their 'right to bear arms', even when it infringes or threatens others right to 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness', it makes it easier to categorize us all as whackos.

[steve863]

911 and Oklahoma were not devastating enough for you? How about a few Mosque and church bombings? How long a list do you need before you understand that guns are really quite inefficient at mass murder and that more efficient methods of mayhem are on their way.

It may comfort you to call it BS, but while you and others are working at depriving us all of firearms, you are ignoring the lessons these "fleabag nations" are providing for the wackos of the future.

Oh and by the way that is no great prophecy that you are spouting about how things are going to change. There is no doubt that you and the other anti-gunners will be able to whip up enough fervor and mindless paranoia to convince yourselves that that piece of steel is totally evil and that the elimination of that piece of steel will result in a world of peace and serenity. Kind of sounds like a Disney movie doesn't it? The real shock will come after you have successfully disarmed the citizenry and see the next generation and tools of violence and mayhem.

Are you riled up yet Doc?? Doc really?? Do you really think that all gun owners think exactly the same as you?? And if they don't they are somehow the enemy? What can I tell you then? You can continue to live in la la land if you want.

[Elmo]

Steve and Doe, From the looks of what Elmo posted you two woul dbe better served focusing your attentions in Swaziland, Nigeria and Kenya. Or have they lost that hometome appeal?

You do realize that the report I posted shows that guns aren't the problem, right? The countries I mentioned all have high gun ownership and are very gun friendly but they have less crime that then the US.

While I do feel guns are not the problem and removing guns won't eliminate crime, it does make it easier for the criminals.

[88GW]

This was an act of PURE EVIL!!! PERIOD. Not sure if we can ever prevent this or anything like it from happening again.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

You do realize that the report I posted shows that guns aren't the problem, right? The countries I mentioned all have high gun ownership and are very gun friendly but they have less crime that then the US.

While I do feel guns are not the problem and removing guns won't eliminate crime, it does make it easier for the criminals.

I understood you post and the information. What I don't agree with is that increasing legislation on law abiding citizens will increase the difficulty for criminlas enough to justify the infringement. It is kind of a cost benefit issue.

[Doc]

Are you riled up yet Doc?? Doc really?? Do you really think that all gun owners think exactly the same as you?? And if they don't they are somehow the enemy? What can I tell you then? You can continue to live in la la land if you want.

So I guess this is the point where when you run out of substantive arguments you start with the attacks. That's ok. What ever you need to get through the day. I guess I have heard enough anyway.

[Five Seasons]

So if guns weren't part of the problem, why don't other civilized nations have nearly a fraction of the murders we do in this country?? Do we simply have more murderous tendencies here or what? If people would still kill as much even without guns, why don't other nations with strict gun laws have a murder rate closer to ours?? You would think they would, right? I simply will NEVER believe that guns don't make it easier, because they do. We had one person here saying that if piano wire was used in a murder we would want to ban pianos. What a lame freaking analogy. Let him show us even one piano wire murder, while guns murder scores of people each and every day in this country. I do want to keep my guns as much as the next guy, but I can see the reality here. I simply won't pretend that the easy availability of guns in this country don't play a part in all this.

we are also the most free nation on earth. many if not most other societies have much harsher penalties, less democracy and lawyers and culture. Lets say in china for example you kill someone with a gun, you may not even receive a trial. It's simply off with your head. In the states, you're in jail for a year, trial for a few months and then maybe 25 to life, but most likely you have parole. and that's if your slimeball lawyer doesnt get you off on a technicality. As far as culture we were built on a revolution sprung from oppression, freedom is a core belief of all and sometimes this leads to a less powerful gov't and more "i can do what i want" attitude. Plus movies. f'n movies... haha.

let me add too, that by shear population size our numbers will always be greater than canada, germany, uk etc.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Belo

[Elmo]

I understood you post and the information. What I don't agree with is that increasing legislation on law abiding citizens will increase the difficulty for criminlas enough to justify the infringement. It is kind of a cost benefit issue.

Your point in valid. What is needed in a restriction that will not infringe on the law abiding citizen but will make it hard for the crackhead sleeping in the corner. If I knew what that restriction is, I'd run for office. Unfortunately I don't. I just think one is needed.

[virgil]

What is needed in a restriction that will not infringe on the law abiding citizen but will make it hard for the crackhead sleeping in the corner. If I knew what that restriction is, I'd run for office. Unfortunately I don't. I just think one is needed.

If you were running for office and even suggested addressing the issue, the NRA would do everything in their power to keep you out of office.

[jjb4900]

I think if you take a look at these mass shootings, the majority, if not all the guns and ammo were legally obtained.........even if you took the magazine and reduced it to 5 instead of 10 shot's, anyone with a little experience could reload at a very rapid rate.............and how can you even begin to enact an effective gun control system when the country is filled with thousands of undocumented guns that can't be traced?

[Elmo]

Here's a nice pro-gun incidence.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/man-attempts-to-open-fire-on-crowd-at-movie-theater-armed-off-duty-sheriffs-deputy-drops-him-with-one-bullet/

[steve863]

.and how can you even begin to enact an effective gun control system when the country is filled with thousands of undocumented guns that can't be traced?

Typical reply. We have lost the battle so we should do NOTHING to prevent more guns from falling into the wrong hands. Unbelievable.

[jjb4900]

Typical reply. We have lost the battle so we should do NOTHING to prevent more guns from falling into the wrong hands. Unbelievable.

Never said nothing should be done, that's the farthest thing from my mind, I have no problem registering a gun, waiting to buy a gun, having them run a full background check, showing my ID to buy ammo, you name ..........just stating the fact of the staggering undertaking it's gonna be to control guns with the amount out there. I just didn't want to share my opinion that I have no use for anything other than guns for hunting and if the other type guns weren't available to the general public I could care less.

Edited December 18, 2012 by jjb4900

[josephmrtn]

Here's a nice pro-gun incidence.

http://www.theblaze....ith-one-bullet/

this is a GREAT example of guns saving lives, unlike the media usualy portrays them

[shawnhu]

If the government decides to ban guns for citizens, Law enforcement should also not be allowed to carry, just like in England. Let them enforce the criminals with their sticks and whistles.

We are a nation of checks and balances, and if our guns are stripped from us, who then will keep the military and government in check?

The anti's in this forum probably never took US history, of how this nation came to be. We are here because we fought for our freedom, with guns.

I'm not into high capacity mags, or assault rifles. But I would never think to ban them because I feel they are not the issue here. They've been used in mass murders, but so has bombs and planes and cars, we didn't ban those, did we?

The US as a whole is going through a phase, a phase of depression, a phase of lack in education and of family morals. Top this with a phase to disarm and strip away the right for individuals to protect themselves, and this is the result. None of these kids or teachers were able to defend themselves.

There's a lot of folks out there that are willing to put their lives on the line to protect others, if they were only allowed to do so by carrying.

Edited December 18, 2012 by shawnhu

[steve863]

Never said nothing should be done, that's the farthest thing from my mind, I have no problem registering a gun, waiting to buy a gun, having them run a full background check, showing my ID to buy ammo, you name ..........just stating the fact of the staggering undertaking it's gonna be to control guns with the amount out there. I just didn't want to share my opinion that I have no use for anything other than guns for hunting and if the other type guns weren't available to the general public I could care less.

OK, I got you now. It will be a staggering undertaking. Things have been too laxed for way too long, unfortunately.

[jjb4900]

I would like to see the number of convicted felons, people with orders of protections against them, and others who can't legally own firearms......who every year buy hunting licenses and ammo and then go to the shooting range all unchecked, something as simple as a driver's license check should prevent this. Should be no different than when you try to buy something with a maxed out credit card, "I'm sorry sir your purchase was declined."

[wztirem]

OK, I got you now. It will be a staggering undertaking. Things have been too laxed for way too long, unfortunately.

From what I have read it may all boil down to the following:

Quoting John Lowy, Director of the Brady Center to prevent Gun Violence's legal Action Center

1-) Who should be allowed to buy guns?

2-) How should they be allowed to buy them?

3-) What should they be allowed to buy?