Roe vs Wade

[ncountry]

2 minutes ago, Chef said:

Who got crude and personal ?


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You are not a dummy. Don't act like it.. And you are not alone. 

[Chef]

You are not a dummy. Don't act like it.. And you are not alone. 

Here is the thing, I proposed a very real and sad scenario that takes place every day in this country. It’s sad but it’s true. Now little Johnny gets away Scott free and Sally’s life as she knows it is over.

Doesn’t seem fair to me


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[9jNYstarkOH]

54 minutes ago, Chef said:

Now here is the question.. what leads you to believe that is murder or that it is even a baby? Science or your personal religious beliefs ?


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[Grouse]

If that is a very real scenario in the US today, a lot of parents in this country are raising a lot of sluts.

The storyteller is so convinced it's the norm, he must have a lot of experience in this area.

[diplomat019]

What about the crazy girl who is poking holes in the guys condom!  That young patriots life Should be hitched to a psycho skank for the rest of his life?   

[Northcountryman]

3 hours ago, Chef said:

Here we go…

Little sally grouse goes off to college. She’s 18 and this is her first experience away from home.. on her second week there she meets little Johnny phantom at a frat party. Neither of them have ever had a real sexual experience before and between the alcohol and their hormones they decided to try.

They go back to Sally’s room. In their buzzed state sally hands little Johnny grouse a condom from the stash she got from the student center. What she doesn’t know is in the dark she grabbed a magnum.

Now little Johnny phantom has a tiny pencil pecker and there is no way that magnum is staying on. So halfway through this 2 minute ordeal that giant parachute of a rubber slides off of Johnny’s needle pecker. Neither of them know any better and Johnny gives sally a good old shot of the baby juice.

Upon waking up in the morning Johnny sees sally grouse in the light of day and realizes what a ugly troll she really is. Before leaving he gives her a fake phone number and heads out on his way… you know, to tell tall tails to his friends about the not so hot girl from West Virginia he nailed the night before.

Any way 10 weeks later after two missed periods.. the innocent sally from West Virginia begins to throw up in the morning. After a few days of this she heads to the student medical center. Here she finds out that Johnny phantoms love juice somehow made it past the condom she supplied and she is now pregnant.

The shame builds she realized he never called, she doesn’t know who he is and that she will have to raise this baby on her own. She goes to a very large SEC school and none of the bordering states around her offer access to abortion and her redneck West Virginia parents won’t help her travel to get one.

Should Sally’s future be over by the choice of someone else because she made one mistake in her first few weeks of college?


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Great story !! 

No, it should not be; great example of a situation in which first trimester abortion could be applied without prejudice IMHO.  However, if she waits till past that, then we have a problem.

[Northcountryman]

1 hour ago, diplomat019 said:

What about the crazy girl who is poking holes in the guys condom!  That young patriots life Should be hitched to a psycho skank for the rest of his life?   

Interesting example; are you suggesting a scenario in which the Mother wants and the Father does not? Does he have rights to insist upon abortion, then? Hmmm....

[ATbuckhunter]

Guns are in the Constitution abortions aren't 
So no point bringing them up here . China has the same abortion laws as United States and so does  North Korea and no guns maybe that's the model you  would like to follow instead .
Notice countries that have no human rights have no problem having abortions at any time just saying do you really want to be doing the same thing as them ?
Btw you can own guns in the EU just the  process is a little bit more complex.
 

Here today, gone tomorrow bud. Second amendment can be amended, and there go our gun rights.

We’re working on our way to no human rights here too. They’re already calling to look at Brown Vs Board of Ed.

Yes I know they can own guns, but do any of us want to deal with that process? NYC is annoying enough, and they’re worse than that


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[Northcountryman]

2 hours ago, 9jNYstarkOH said:

If little sally or Johnny drives drunk and kills someone should the one mistake cause their future to be over? 

Depends upon what constitutes being "over" in terms of their future.  Thats a bit of a false equivalence  because all participants ,in your scenario are born and have been for many years living their lives.  Certainly, anyone in a civilized society that takes a life , whether wittingly or not, must be held accountable in some way- they should, however, be given a fair chance at redemption.

[Chef]

Depends upon what constitutes being "over" in terms of their future.  Thats a bit of a false equivalence  because all participants ,in your scenario are born and have been for many years living their lives.  Certainly, anyone in a civilized society that takes a life , whether wittingly or not, must be held accountable in some way- they should, however, be given a fair chance at redemption.

So the question here is what constitutes a life? What drives people to believe a fetus is a life? Is it a underlying religious belief?


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[BowmanMike]

10 minutes ago, Chef said:

So the question here is what constitutes a life? What drives people to believe a fetus is a life? Is it a underlying religious belief?


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I would guess that is a yes,and that also is why it was overturned,because of the Supreme Court judges religious beliefs. 

We're all the other judges wrong for the last 50 years?

Nice separation of church and state,I do believe that is in the constitution but only applied when convenient.

[Grouse]

The decision to overturn Roe had nothing to do with religion.  It had to do with the Constitution, states rights and the Rule of Law.  Read the opinion and learn.

[ApexerER]

4 hours ago, Chef said:

Here we go…

Little sally grouse goes off to college. She’s 18 and this is her first experience away from home.. on her second week there she meets little Johnny phantom at a frat party. Neither of them have ever had a real sexual experience before and between the alcohol and their hormones they decided to try.

They go back to Sally’s room. In their buzzed state sally hands little Johnny grouse a condom from the stash she got from the student center. What she doesn’t know is in the dark she grabbed a magnum.

Now little Johnny phantom has a tiny pencil pecker and there is no way that magnum is staying on. So halfway through this 2 minute ordeal that giant parachute of a rubber slides off of Johnny’s needle pecker. Neither of them know any better and Johnny gives sally a good old shot of the baby juice.

Upon waking up in the morning Johnny sees sally grouse in the light of day and realizes what a ugly troll she really is. Before leaving he gives her a fake phone number and heads out on his way… you know, to tell tall tails to his friends about the not so hot girl from West Virginia he nailed the night before.

Any way 10 weeks later after two missed periods.. the innocent sally from West Virginia begins to throw up in the morning. After a few days of this she heads to the student medical center. Here she finds out that Johnny phantoms love juice somehow made it past the condom she supplied and she is now pregnant.

The shame builds she realized he never called, she doesn’t know who he is and that she will have to raise this baby on her own. She goes to a very large SEC school and none of the bordering states around her offer access to abortion and her redneck West Virginia parents won’t help her travel to get one.

Should Sally’s future be over by the choice of someone else because she made one mistake in her first few weeks of college?


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Do you think abortion is a constitutional right?  If so, can you show me where it was written? 

All the supreme court did was make that decision. The correct one in my opinion. It should have easily been a unanimous decision and would have been if it wasn't for judges that don't follow the constitution. Now or 50 years ago. 

Now if you want to ad an amendment to the constitution making it a right, then the supreme court would uphold it as a right. 

and BTW, i do believe that little Ms Grouse in your story should be able to get an abortion in the first trimester if she so chooses....and she still can.

[9jNYstarkOH]

58 minutes ago, Northcountryman said:

Depends upon what constitutes being "over" in terms of their future.  Thats a bit of a false equivalence  because all participants ,in your scenario are born and have been for many years living their lives.  Certainly, anyone in a civilized society that takes a life , whether wittingly or not, must be held accountable in some way- they should, however, be given a fair chance at redemption.

I used “over” as chef stated Sally’s future would be over if she could not abort her baby. But let’s change it up a bit let’s say little sally or Johnny kills a pregnant woman they are going to be charged with both deaths and it will definitely change sally or Johnny’s  future. I can’t seem to figure out how legally in the one scenario it is murder and the second it is not. In the one the baby is treated as a human being and the other a “parasite” how is this possible. 

[Grouse]

[9jNYstarkOH]

1 hour ago, BowmanMike said:

I would guess that is a yes,and that also is why it was overturned,because of the Supreme Court judges religious beliefs. 

We're all the other judges wrong for the last 50 years?

Nice separation of church and state,I do believe that is in the constitution but only applied when convenient.

I am not religious but have morals as they are not mutually exclusive. They did not ban abortions they said it was a state issue as it is not covered as a right in the constitution. Again why are we harvesting human organs from these killed in worm babies if they are not humans. But maybe a definition of fetus would help explain things.

 

Edited June 28, 2022 by 9jNYstarkOH

[Chef]

Do you think abortion is a constitutional right?  If so, can you show me where it was written? 
All the supreme court did was make that decision. The correct one in my opinion. It should have easily been a unanimous decision and would have been if it wasn't for judges that don't follow the constitution. Now or 50 years ago. 
Now if you want to ad an amendment to the constitution making it a right, then the supreme court would uphold it as a right. 
and BTW, i do believe that little Ms Grouse in your story should be able to get an abortion in the first trimester if she so chooses....and she still can.

She can in some states not in others… so also believe the constitution gives people the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

There are cases where the lack of access to abortion can Deny a woman the right to live. It can also for sure make her un happy and infringes on her liberty to be happy.


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[diplomat019]

2 hours ago, Northcountryman said:

Interesting example; are you suggesting a scenario in which the Mother wants and the Father does not? Does he have rights to insist upon abortion, then? Hmmm....

Yeah.  Exactly.  This stuff does happen.  Imagine your son made sweet sweet love to a girl that poked holes in his condom. Not only is he financially responsible for 18 years bare minimum but God knows what else his life has in store for him. Maybe he quits high school to work. He never gets an education. And he lives in poverty taking every type of government taxpayer aid becoming a true leech on society.  Then because he is reliant on government aid, he starts voting democrat.   And then his kids vote democrat.  And so on and so forth.   Very scary to imagine.  

Edited June 28, 2022 by diplomat019

[ApexerER]

8 minutes ago, Chef said:

She can in some states not in others… so also believe the constitution gives people the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

There are cases where the lack of access to abortion can Deny a woman the right to live. It can also for sure make her un happy and infringes on her liberty to be happy.


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Are there really states that if a women is going to die and aborting the baby would save her they wouldn't do it?  I don't know that answer but i highly doubt it.....

The way you are applying life liberty and the pursuit of happiness means you can apply it to anything that makes you happy. For some people that is hookers and cocaine....Are hookers and cocaine protected under the constitution since that is the pursuit of happiness for some? 

The supreme court is supposed to rule on the constitution and that is exactly what they did.....

[9jNYstarkOH]

1 hour ago, Chef said:

She can in some states not in others… so also believe the constitution gives people the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

There are cases where the lack of access to abortion can Deny a woman the right to live. It can also for sure make her un happy and infringes on her liberty to be happy.


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I could be wrong but isn't that the Declaration of Independence not the constitution? 

Edited June 28, 2022 by 9jNYstarkOH

[9jNYstarkOH]

1 hour ago, ApexerER said:

Are there really states that if a women is going to die and aborting the baby would save her they wouldn't do it?  I don't know that answer but i highly doubt it.....

The way you are applying life liberty and the pursuit of happiness means you can apply it to anything that makes you happy. For some people that is hookers and cocaine....Are hookers and cocaine protected under the constitution since that is the pursuit of happiness for some? 

The supreme court is supposed to rule on the constitution and that is exactly what they did.....

 

[Northcountryman]

4 hours ago, Chef said:

So the question here is what constitutes a life? What drives people to believe a fetus is a life? I

Agreed- that is the crux of the matter, isnt it? For the majority of people (I think) , human life begins after the first trimester , perhaps even as late as 15-16 weeks; after that point, it is, indeed a person and should be treated as one. 

[phantom]

5 hours ago, ATbuckhunter said:

Here today, gone tomorrow bud. Second amendment can be amended, and there go our gun rights.

We’re working on our way to no human rights here too. They’re already calling to look at Brown Vs Board of Ed.

Yes I know they can own guns, but do any of us want to deal with that process? NYC is annoying enough, and they’re worse than that


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Well let me ask you this which would you rather have gun rights or abortion rights if you couldn't have both?

Because basically that's what it comes down to when you vote for most these politicians they will give you abortion and take your guns away and high energy prices  left  or you can have your guns and probably less or no abortion and cheap energy  Right .

 

 

 

 

 

[Chef]

Well let me ask you this which would you rather have gun rights or abortion rights if you couldn't have both?
Because basically that's what it comes down to when you vote for most these politicians they will give you abortion and take your guns away and high energy prices  left  or you can have your guns and probably less or no abortion and cheap energy  Right .
 
 
 
 
 

You just hit the big issue in our country there is no middle any more.. there is extreme right snd extreme left when it comes to who you can vote for.

I would bet that 80% of us here fall in the middle and have to make a hard choice every time we vote


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[BowmanMike]

11 minutes ago, Chef said:

You just hit the big issue in our country there is no middle any more.. there is extreme right snd extreme left when it comes to who you can vote for.

I would bet that 80% of us here fall in the middle and have to make a hard choice every time we vote


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This two party system is not great. There is no way it doesn't promote tribalism. Every election is so close that a few swing states have an unproportiate say in who wins.  Everyone has to choose the lesser of two evils every time around. I don't think you will find many democrats that are really excited about Biden. I know I am not. Any of the candidates would have been a better choice than him imo.

Look at the stalemate in congress because two democrats are not voting party line. Two senators can make or break a presidency,that seems pretty stupid to me.