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Passing Doe


NFA-ADK
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Passing a 4 pt buck and a doe yesterday I was chastised for not shooting my first deer with my bow by one of my archery partners.  Passing on doe, spikes and bucks up to 4 points has been the way I have hunted since 1988.  Most area's I hunt have a low population with a few exceptions, LI being one of them.  I understand population control and the need for people to get meat, this is not about that.

 

I know I am a minority because I don't shoot or target doe for the most part.  With so many hunters in these area's I just feel that I don't need to remove several doe a year off of the public land I hunt.  I know doe can be just as smart and as hard to hunt as the most seasoned buck but I still can not pull the trigger when one is perfect broad side for me.  Last year I gave myself a free pass to shoot anything the last day of bow but when I stalked upon a feeding yearling I just could not do it.  The two adult doe that busted me when I was trying to get a buck to come my way with the MAA MAA call never offered a shot and I am not sure what happened to the buck as the doe distracted me...

 

I never liked the word Trophy hunter.  I like to consider myself a mature deer hunter.  But it is what it is...  I burn toast so cooking is not my cup of tea so to speak.  With that I donate most of my meat to friends and family.  My main focus of hunting has always been the ADK.  Just something mystical about hunting those deep woods that grips me tight!  Doe where always off limits until I took up bow hunting in 2001 but I still pass them up north due to harsh winters and low population.  I did try to target one doe that busted me every time I exited the woods, lucky for her I only hunted that spot a few times, she pegged me every time. 

 

Question:  Is it wrong for me to pass doe with the hope of them producing more deer for me to enjoy?  Or passing a small buck with the hopes that he will survive the season?  With so many brown and down bow hunters is it really necessary for me to follow suit?  I say no, another brown and down hunter is not needed.  I can not say I will never shoot a doe but I find it hard to target them specifically.  Maybe it's the cuteness factor?  Missing head gear factor?  Yes I envy those shinny antlers just as much as the next hunter and notice that even with the 4 point yesterday my nerves got the best of me until I saw him in full view and gave him a pass. 

 

Is this wrong?  Does anyone else pass deer like this?  Should I go out tomorrow and shoot the first deer I see just to get one with a bow?  I am told that I need to shoot more deer with my bow so I have better experience.  Funny to me as my experience has taught me that killing many deer does not always equal a good hunter.  The extra time in the woods when I do not shoot has been enlightening as I get to observe more deer and gain more knowledge, something I find hard to sacrifice. 

 

Does one have to kill many deer to PROVE they are good hunters?  Seems to be the way many think but first hand experience has proven otherwise.  I know a few hunters who kill many deer from 20+ feet in the air or on private property that deer must travel through but there knowledge on actual deer hunting is minimal.  These guys are great shots and kill many suburban deer but IMO that does not always equal hunter knowledge just killing experience.  Are they the same, NO IMO but then again I seem to be the minority...

 

 

What are your thoughts? 

 

Does the guy who has private property and kills many deer a year a better hunter than the guy who gets one every few years off of public land?  Seems to be how many think but does not seem to always be the case.  I have hunted both and the opportunities on private land vs public can vary greatly.   Private land offers the same routes for deer every year with the same stands in place all year and as a home owner I know exactly where they travel, not the same as having the orange army hunting with you on hundreds to thousands of acres.  Sorry I am just ranting at this point...  I went from shooting doe to hunting knowledge to public vs private but they all seem to relate to how hunters perceive others with the amount of deer harvested. 

 

Is the guy who never shot a deer on public land a bad hunter vs the guy who shoots over 100 on a farm.  Opinions vary but in my experience public land hunters are some of the most knowledgeable hunters due to so many other factors that private land does not have to deal with.   This does not mean I think private land hunters are not knowledgeable, they are.  And just because someone hunts public land does not make the more knowledgeable. Two different worlds and ways of thinking.  I just can't always equate killing many deer with level of knowledge.

 

 

This first pic was the day I found the largest buck track of my life, I was exhausted but enthusiastic!  Second pic was with my hunting partner of over 25 years helping drag him out the next day.  Shawn is one of the most knowledgeable hunters I know and has the highest of ethics and has never taken a shot in NY.  Bad hunter, NO way!!!  Experienced and woods smart? YES!  Some may base hunting skills on kills but not me and this guy is living proof just like many other public land hunters.  God Bless you Shawn I hope your first buck is nothing short of spectacular!

 

The real question is this:  How do you figure a hunters knowledge and skills?  Deer killed?  Rack size?  Knowledge on their prey?  Tree stand vs stalking?  Public vs private?  Arg as you can see this is a topic I am passionate about, but enough ranting time to go shoot the bow!

 

 

NFA

 

 

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Whats right or wrong is up to you bud. Hunting for me has always been a very personal pursuit, im constantly competing against myself, and only myself. I take more and bigger deer than most of the people i hunt with regularly, but on the other hand i know guys that trake bucks that make mine look like babies. For me its really always been about what makes me happy to shoot. Recently, i've been working on targeting only mature deer and letting smaller bucks walk, but just a few years ago, with a broken ankle i was happier than hell that i managed to get a doe (couldnt go more than 100 yards or so from a road). To each his own. 

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There are many types of hunters.. I think its human nature to compete with others.None of it should really matter.. Do what makes you happy as long as its legal... I have had the oportunity to spend 100s of days hunting. So It probably explanes why I have better luck( on the same piece of land) than many..At the same time sometimes being lucky is all it takes..Depending on the hunting spot I ussualy taylor my hunting to what is there. For years I have not shot a doe or small buck on our farm,hoping for a better year the following .as it turns out somebody else in the area inevitably will not be picky. But I gave the deer a chance . that's all I can do.I do have other places I hunt. If I was limited on time or hunting spots I'm not so sure I would be so fussy.

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I have seen great hunters on both private and public land. The land they hunt has nothing to do with their skill level.

 

I would say that if a person decides to continually set out an rarely takes a deer. they are probably a better nature walker than  a hunter...lol. There is an ultimate conclusion to the action of hunting. DO what make you happy and don't worry about what anybody but you thinks. And get off the who is better than who kick.  Is the Ford or a Chevy a better truck?  WRONG. They both suck. :bye:

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I agree with pretty much everything said here. And NFA I'm pretty sure hunters on this site that walk the walk have a real respect for what you do. I do. And I think we share a similar enthusiasm for deep woods.

That said I do feel that gaining the experience of shooting a number of deer does make someone a "better" hunter. But only in the sense that it gives you experience which may help you determine what shots to make, what to avoid,tracking hit deer, dragging, etc. And all that is part of hunting.

And to be honest, I also have a the feeling that kids and guys who are new to hunting should not be passing on small bucks and does, especially before they get their first. I can't put my finger on why it irks me, it just does. Maybe its because it took me a long time to shoot a deer as a kid (5 or 6 years). I don't know. Just seems like that's not what hunting is supposed to be about.

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The real question is this:  How do you figure a hunters knowledge and skills?

 

Real easy........... just ask them!

If they go on, and on, and on, about what a skilled and knowledgeable hunter they are.... they're probably full of crap,lol!

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it's a personal choice that said I think you're a very respectable hunter.  many times people that kill the biggest buck aren't that great of the hunter.  they were just in the right place at the right time and luck was on their side.  on my parent's farm we actually prohibit shooting does.  i'll kill 2-3 each year after not filling a tag with a buck.  however, really no one else shoots a single doe.  on rare occasion someone will get the green light to take one due to it being clearly wounded.  no cousin's or uncles are allowed to because if one of them is allowed to shoot a doe, all the others have to get the opportunity to be fair.  now 20-30 are taken in a season.  we wouldn't see much of anything, opposed to the way things are now.  it's not uncommon to see 20 deer in an afternoon or morning sit.  holding out for a better buck is ok too if that's what you want.  lee lakosky of the Crush TV took 7 years of bowhunting to kill his first buck.  look at where he's at now.  don't let anybody get to you by harassment due to you passing deer and not filling tags. 

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I think I understand what you're asking, and I think it takes thick skin to do what you do. I believe most people either hunt because they enjoy the dinner, the bragging rights, the feeling of superiority when they kill something, the feeling of accomplishment after completing something which is hard. You fall into the last category. The hard is what makes it great. Those that fall into the other categories have a difficult time understanding why you don't do what they do.

If you're already giving your meat away, why not take those other shots at the deer and give it to your buddies? Because the dear's not going to waste, you can feel good about taking those animals. You can also make the point to your friends, that you are an accomplished hunter.

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My family doesn't eat more than one small deer in a years time,unless I have summer sausage/snack sticks made.I usually take 2-5 deer a year but thats because I either have friend or family that cant,wont or doesn't like to hunt.I donate meat to a few families at our church also.My most favorite thing to do in a year beside getting a crack at a big buck is getting someone a deer that they are having a tough time getting.Now does taking up to 5 deer a year make me a bad person if all the meat is going to people that always eat it???I don't think so and I don't thin it makes me any better hunter than anyone else.I love to hunt,love to kill deer and love to share with friends and family. Weather its by providing them with meat for there table with a deer I killed,getting them a deer they have had a tough time getting or just spending the day in the woods with them.The number or what deer is taken means nothing to me as long as its legal and tagged by the hunter

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I eat 1 deer a year.  So there is no reason to fill all my tags.   I can't give venison away.   no one wants it.   "it's too gamey" is all I hear, when it's really not gamey at all.   I have 2) tags for 3M which I won't use.    I may go out just to enjoy the day, but not to fill my tags.

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Shoot what makes you happy. Some of my hunting buddies think I'm nuts because I pass up a bunch of yearling bucks on the public land we hunt. I'm just looking for something a little bigger than a 1.5 year old buck. I've killed a ton of them and have higher standards now. I don't think many of the bucks I pass make it through gun season, but if they do hopefully they wander by me the next season! I don't criticize my buddies for killing the small ones. Do I wish they would pass on them? Absolutely, and maybe someday they will, but I don't give them crap about it.

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I think it all comes down to when a hunter matures in his hunting life. Myself i now find myself in the..cant kill something thats easy way of thinking. I dont take the little easy bucks. I try not to take fawns or young does when it comes to getting meat. I also would much rather bow or muzzleload hunt because its tougher.

It also matters where you hunt. Lots of deer or very few deer. When i let a deer walk i still feel as though..I Won..Because i could have taken them. It all come down to choices i guess!

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I agree with four seasons.  Benn hunting for over 30 years now and I kill a nice buck every year.  I know I'm fortunate to do so on the property I hunt.  I don't judge what others do or harvest but will offer advice when asked.  I passed 8 different bucks during gun season that I decided not to shoot being that I got a good one during bow season.   It's what you decide to do.  I really couldn't care less or listen to what others decide to do as long as it's legal.

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I have seen great hunters on both private and public land. The land they hunt has nothing to do with their skill level.

 

I would say that if a person decides to continually set out an rarely takes a deer. they are probably a better nature walker than  a hunter...lol. There is an ultimate conclusion to the action of hunting. DO what make you happy and don't worry about what anybody but you thinks. And get off the who is better than who kick.  Is the Ford or a Chevy a better truck?  WRONG. They both suck. :bye:

 

you're right about the Ford.

 

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I'm another that advocates doing what is right for you, at the given time and circumstances of your hunt and hunting area. 

 

However, I do wish more guys would teach and challenge themselves at different levels and to me that does NOT mean shooting every deer you see once you have some seasons under your belt. Just my opinion. 

 

So for me, I pass A LOT of deer. Sometimes I don't fill my archery buck tag but then again I have several P&Y bucks including a few in the 140's and as high as 160" all by bow. By no means bragging, and I make plenty of mistakes, but my point to the original poster is that you won't shoot many mature bucks if you don't learn to pass some young ones. I also shoot my share of doe when the situation warrants. But I certainly don't advocate following the browns it's down crew. Be a trend setter and be the guy to show them what is possible with a little dedication and restraint. Good luck! 

 

 

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I hunt with a groupe of guys who don't shoot does. And look down on anyone who shoots a doe, but I shoot a doe once and a while and could care less what they think. So they don't shoot does and this year no one shot a buck out of 14 huters. So you gussed it I will be back up this weekend trying to shoot a doe. After all it's called hunting and it ends with killing a deer, what ever you choose to shoot aslong as it's legal. I don't shoot fawns or does with fawns try to wait and find a single doe. I don't look down on anyone who hunts as long as it's done ethically and legally.

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