Deer Hunting was different then.

[wolc123]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

I remember when hunting from a tree stand was promoted as being safer.  Shooting from a stand put your shots into the ground if you missed a deer.  Shooting from the ground was more likely to send your bullet farther into the woods and possibly strike an unintended target.  It was also thought to be safer to be off the ground when others were hunting from the ground in the same area. That idea did put a lot of hunters in trees.

Seems weird today, but these were real considerations back in those days.

If you ever had your hair parted by a shotgun slug, as I have, then you might feel safer up off the ground.  Having felt the pressure wave of that slug against my face, before I heard the gun shot, was a feeling I will never forget.  I “hit the dirt”, after that first shot.  The next (4) landed close by, some spraying dirt against my face.  
 

The only place where I am comfortable now, hunting deer from the ground, is up in the mountains where there are seldom other hunters within miles of my location.  The steep terrain also minimizes overspray.  
 

The two locations, where I hunt in WNY, are both flat as a pancake.  I very rarely hunt from the ground in either of those spots.   My pop-up ground blind was destroyed in a wind storm this year, and I was thankful to see it go. 
 

I am also not overly fond of heights, so I am most comfortable hunting from stands that are only 4 to 10 feet high.  That’s high enough to get my own vitals out of the crossfire, yet low enough to minimize injuries from a fall.  I never wear a safety harness, but I do have rails around all but one of my stands.  
 

When hunting from flatlands, I also appreciate the fact that getting up off the ground puts my own shots into the ground.  I’d rather take someone else’s shot than hit someone by mistake.  

I hunt shotgun-only areas of WNY that are densely populated with people.  I like to be able to fire at deer that approach from any direction, without concern of striking an unintended target.  Getting up above the ground helps a lot with that. The folks who say “what about ricochets” in such situations are overly paranoid and/or clueless.  

This is one of my favorite and most comfortably stands. I made it with a 4 ft square vinyl deck, 8 ft above the ground level, with 3 ft high, weathered barnwood walls around 3 sides.  The entry opening is on the back side, which is lag bolted to a tree.  The front faces the prevailing wind direction, and is supported by (2) pt landscape timber’s.  
 

There is a super-comfortable padded, swivel base office chair on the center of the platform. I paid $ 8 for that, at a barn sale, and $ 5 each for the front timber’s at Home Depot.  All the other materials of that stand were “free”, and it took me about (3) hours to build.  

If I bring along my tree umbrella, I can hunt it in any weather conditions.  I put it up last year, and killed (2) bucks from it then.  It has produced one for me so far this year, and I still might score another from it, before the holiday ML ends on January 1.  

[skully]

The best thing about back in the day was hunting huge pieces of property that someone owned from Manhattan and never even cared about who was on it.  Zero posted signs.  We had a lady down the street that owned 60 acres and had no idea how big 60 acres was.  She thought it was the size of her lawn which was only an acre.  Now every piece of land is accountant-ed for and someone is watching at all times...  I was completely legal on the property lines  a few years ago and other property owner was showing me the boundaries on his cell phone...  

[airedale]

As mentioned several times the methods many use to hunt Deer are dictated by the land they have to hunt on. Small land holdings take away most still hunting, tracking techniques so stands whatever type one prefers is the way to go. Personally I get wicked bored sitting on or in a stand for long periods of time, I love still hunting and tracking, for me it is all about the chase and pitting woodsmanship skill against superior senses, I guess that is why I am addicted to small game, getting after the quarry.

Al

[Larry]

Here are some things I still do. I Never name deer other than spike 8pt 10pt ect. I never make a hit list. Something I've gone back to this year after my second knee replacement is just going out and have fun. I've killed more than my share of big bucks and now I'm just lucky I can still get out. Next season I will be north of 65 and have realized I have a set number of deer season's left don't when the last one will come. But I know someday it will. So I'm just going to have fun for the rest of them.

[Northcountryman]

19 hours ago, airedale said:

As mentioned several times the methods many use to hunt Deer are dictated by the land they have to hunt on. Small land holdings take away most still hunting, tracking techniques so stands whatever type one prefers is the way to go. Personally I get wicked bored sitting on or in a stand for long periods of time, I love still hunting and tracking, for me it is all about the chase and pitting woodsmanship skill against superior senses, I guess that is why I am addicted to small game, getting after the quarry.

Al

Al, do you only still hunt for deer late season when snows on the gorund or anytime? I only feel like it can be effective when snow or rain to soften your footsteps and muffle your approach; what do you think?

 

[nyantler]

On 12/15/2022 at 2:47 PM, Doc said:

I had stick-built treestands even back in the 60's, eventually "graduating" to the old Baker climbing treestands. But somewhere along the line (about the mid 80's), I started getting a fear of heights, and have been a ground hunter ever since.

Yeah, when I started (early 60's) there were no videos or TV programs telling you how you HAD to hunt. We all learned from our elders or one of the hunting magazines. A lot of the methods were by trial and error. And of course there were the B.S. sessions around the coffee pot at work.

It all seemed so much more exciting before we all became educated and scientific about it all. Heck, it was years before I even knew what "scoring a buck" was all about. Didn't know.....didn't care. Counted points and that was good enough.

One of my big regrets is having helped to bring much of the "educated and scientific" ie. QDM to New York State. It became the Mr. Hyde to the Dr. Jekyl of hunting. I believed I was introducing a great management program to the state... when, in fact, it just became a trophy buck farming program... utilizing food plots, cameras and selfish hunting practices to produce a hit list of whitetail bucks with little regard for the true management of healthy whitetail deer populations in general.

[airedale]

3 hours ago, Northcountryman said:

Al, do you only still hunt for deer late season when snows on the gorund or anytime?

When it comes to hunting conditions you always have to deal with the hand you are dealt. Personally I can not walk through the woods in dry crunchy conditions silently, so I am traveling shorter distances and doing more and longer sits scanning with my binoculars. I aways have my Hot Seat clipped to my belt and can make a comfortable sit just about anywhere before I pick up and move on. So yes I basically still hunt all of the time but modify my technique some according to the conditions. 

Going into the wind in drizzly wet conditions have been the best for me moving undetected and not getting busted.

Another tip I picked up recently was to have a diaphragm Turkey call in your mouth while still hunting in nosier conditions, if you make a misstep and make a loud crunch let out a couple of soft yelps, may put any Deer within earshot back at ease. Just started using that one and do not have a concrete opinion but it was given by an old time expert still hunter who took a lot of Deer and to me it sounds good in principle.

Al

[Four Seasons]

1 hour ago, nyantler said:

One of my big regrets is having helped to bring much of the "educated and scientific" ie. QDM to New York State. It became the Mr. Hyde to the Dr. Jekyl of hunting. I believed I was introducing a great management program to the state... when, in fact, it just became a trophy buck farming program... utilizing food plots, cameras and selfish hunting practices to produce a hit list of whitetail bucks with little regard for the true management of healthy whitetail deer populations in general.

Well that’s kinda a double edge sword. I think the state itself kinda dropped he ball ball on the overall management of the herds in many places with their rules and laws such as changing the mandatory check stations all the way to giving farmers the green light to kill deer all night long which many just gut shot and let run off to die elsewhere. Then your spot on with hunters taking things in their own hands if you will with them trying to make their hunting better and a better chance for bigger bucks. When everyone wanted to be their own Bone Collector things sure did change. I don’t see it changing back anytime soon with the money involved in the chasing of big antlers. Evolution I guess. 

[Northcountryman]

4 hours ago, airedale said:

When it comes to hunting conditions you always have to deal with the hand you are dealt. Personally I can not walk through the woods in dry crunchy conditions silently, so I am traveling shorter distances and doing more and longer sits scanning with my binoculars. I aways have my Hot Seat clipped to my belt and can make a comfortable sit just about anywhere before I pick up and move on. So yes I basically still hunt all of the time but modify my technique some according to the conditions. 

Going into the wind in drizzly wet conditions have been the best for me moving undetected and not getting busted.

Another tip I picked up recently was to have a diaphragm Turkey call in your mouth while still hunting in nosier conditions, if you make a misstep and make a loud crunch let out a couple of soft yelps, may put any Deer within earshot back at ease. Just started using that one and do not have a concrete opinion but it was given by an old time expert still hunter who took a lot of Deer and to me it sounds good in principle.

Al

Outstanding post worth saving ; just book a pic and sent to myself to use a few of your ideas in the woods - thank you .

[heavuser]

On 12/15/2022 at 4:07 AM, Grouse said:

This is the way it was when I was starting out.  Times have changed, but I still hold on to the old ways.

I feel like most of this is experienced by people even today.

[nyantler]

On 12/18/2022 at 11:26 AM, Four Seasons said:

Well that’s kinda a double edge sword. I think the state itself kinda dropped he ball ball on the overall management of the herds in many places with their rules and laws such as changing the mandatory check stations all the way to giving farmers the green light to kill deer all night long which many just gut shot and let run off to die elsewhere. Then your spot on with hunters taking things in their own hands if you will with them trying to make their hunting better and a better chance for bigger bucks. When everyone wanted to be their own Bone Collector things sure did change. I don’t see it changing back anytime soon with the money involved in the chasing of big antlers. Evolution I guess. 

I agree... it's probably here to stay... like I always say, If it keeps people hunting I suppose I can live with it

 

[Doc]

Anybody here remember back when posted signs were relatively rare? I recall that back in the early 60's you could walk miles before running into any posted signs. Much of the land was still farmed, and the farmers didn't have a lot of time or resources to be walking their perimeter nailing up posted signs.....So they didn't.

[jperch]

41 minutes ago, Doc said:

Anybody here remember back when posted signs were relatively rare? I recall that back in the early 60's you could walk miles before running into any posted signs. Much of the land was still farmed, and the farmers didn't have a lot of time or resources to be walking their perimeter nailing up posted signs.....So they didn't.

Absolutely.  Fifty (or so) years ago I would go rabbit hunting with my uncles who had packs of beagle up in the Henderson Harbor area and farther north.  Nothing was posted as I recall.  I don't know how you could run beagles now other than on state land.  Beagles don't respect property lines and sometimes would take off for a long period of time, perhaps chasing a snowshoe rabbit.

[DoubleDose]

The gear has changed too.  If your old enough, Woolrich Red & Black plaid jacket and pants, Red Ball rubber boots, Hot Seat, Kabar knife, sporterized WWII rifles, ....

[airedale]

On 12/25/2022 at 12:30 PM, Doc said:

Anybody here remember back when posted signs were relatively rare? I recall that back in the early 60's you could walk miles before running into any posted signs. Much of the land was still farmed, and the farmers didn't have a lot of time or resources to be walking their perimeter nailing up posted signs

When I was a kid I lived on a country road that was family farmed from one end to the other. None of the land was posted, the farmers back then viewed wildlife like Deer Fox, Woodchucks, Rabbits etc, as vermin, every bite of food the wildlife took off the farm lands was looked at as a loss of revenue. They welcomed sport hunting as long as the hunters were respectful of the land. As far as Deer were concerned they would have liked to see every one shot and killed.

Al

[Doc]

On 12/19/2022 at 8:22 PM, nyantler said:

I agree... it's probably here to stay... like I always say, If it keeps people hunting I suppose I can live with it

 

Sometimes I have to wonder if some of these changes in hunting goals and styles aren't "part of" the reason that hunter populations are waning. It seems to me that hunting used to be a whole lot more fun before we started hunting for scores and judging our success by the numbers. It also seems that today hunting is becoming more of an agricultural endeavor. I see guys buying tractors and implements in the thousands of dollar all to get a deer that satisfies the numbers and measurements that they now setting as a deal-breaker in their hunting enjoyment. I don't know...... the numbers that seem to be creeping into hunting now seem to be the declining hunter population. It makes you wonder.

[nyantler]

On 12/26/2022 at 3:49 PM, Doc said:

Sometimes I have to wonder if some of these changes in hunting goals and styles aren't "part of" the reason that hunter populations are waning. It seems to me that hunting used to be a whole lot more fun before we started hunting for scores and judging our success by the numbers. It also seems that today hunting is becoming more of an agricultural endeavor. I see guys buying tractors and implements in the thousands of dollar all to get a deer that satisfies the numbers and measurements that they now setting as a deal-breaker in their hunting enjoyment. I don't know...... the numbers that seem to be creeping into hunting now seem to be the declining hunter population. It makes you wonder.

I even notice that the enthusiasm of younger hunters isn't close to what I had as a young hunter. In my opinion hunting has become too sterile... you and I grew up without all the fancy clothing, boots and other doo-dads available today... yet we were so excited about the hunt that we toughed out the bitter cold on our uninsilated feet and other uncomfortable conditions... I remember the night before opening day of gun season being like Christmas eve at my house with the same lack of sleep because of the anticipation... Even my mom would be up early to make a hearty breakfast for us before we ventured out into the woods. Just a different time I guess.

[First-light]

22 minutes ago, nyantler said:

I even notice that the enthusiasm of younger hunters isn't close to what I had as a young hunter. In my opinion hunting has become too sterile... you and I grew up without all the fancy clothing, boots and other doo-dads available today... yet we were so excited about the hunt that we toughed out the bitter cold on our uninsilated feet and other uncomfortable conditions... I remember the night before opening day of gun season being like Christmas eve at my house with the same lack of sleep because of the anticipation... Even my mom would be up early to make a hearty breakfast for us before we ventured out into the woods. Just a different time I guess.

I don't know, the kids we have at my camp and my neighbors are as excited as I was the night before opening day. In fact they get a charge out of prepping shooting lanes and tending to food plots. The kids around us are super busy with school and sports. We have to carve out time to get them to camp. Throw in a travel sport team and it's really hard. When you do get them to camp hunting is all they think about! 

[nyantler]

9 hours ago, First-light said:

I don't know, the kids we have at my camp and my neighbors are as excited as I was the night before opening day. In fact they get a charge out of prepping shooting lanes and tending to food plots. The kids around us are super busy with school and sports. We have to carve out time to get them to camp. Throw in a travel sport team and it's really hard. When you do get them to camp hunting is all they think about! 

Of course there are some young hunters that have the fever, but in general I don't think that is true. Not as many would hunt on their own without coaxing from the old timers... and I'm not sure that many will carry on the tradition in the same way when those old timers are gone. My sons are excited about the hunt too, but only because Dad is... on their own... not so much. They and their friends are not nearly as avid about hunting as me and my generation.

[First-light]

15 minutes ago, nyantler said:

Of course there are some young hunters that have the fever, but in general I don't think that is true. Not as many would hunt on their own without coaxing from the old timers... and I'm not sure that many will carry on the tradition in the same way when those old timers are gone. My sons are excited about the hunt too, but only because Dad is... on their own... not so much. They and their friends are not nearly as avid about hunting as me and my generation.

Yeah I get that. I let nothing get in the way of the hunting season when younger. We can only hope it continues with them. My camp it will for sure. 

[First-light]

On 12/18/2022 at 9:27 AM, nyantler said:

One of my big regrets is having helped to bring much of the "educated and scientific" ie. QDM to New York State. It became the Mr. Hyde to the Dr. Jekyl of hunting. I believed I was introducing a great management program to the state... when, in fact, it just became a trophy buck farming program... utilizing food plots, cameras and selfish hunting practices to produce a hit list of whitetail bucks with little regard for the true management of healthy whitetail deer populations in general.

But don't you believe back then was the beginning of big Hunting shows that had product to sell. Wether it be videos or food plot seed it all came into play. Buckmasters, the video series bowhunting October Whitetails, Bill Jordan outdoors, Realtree. It all changed hunting forever. Big business for sure and hunters bought into it. 

[nyantler]

48 minutes ago, First-light said:

But don't you believe back then was the beginning of big Hunting shows that had product to sell. Wether it be videos or food plot seed it all came into play. Buckmasters, the video series bowhunting October Whitetails, Bill Jordan outdoors, Realtree. It all changed hunting forever. Big business for sure and hunters bought into it. 

Absolutely... the idea of managing for big bucks was how QDM was sold to the hunting public... back then the idea of antler restrictions and killing does was hotly contested by the hunting community... but hunting shows loved the idea because it brought about a plethora of new hunting related products... food plot products, blinds, treestands, cameras, calls, scents, scent eliminating products, etc. etc. New fodder for their hunting shows... and yes, hunters bought in hook , line and sinker

[Doc]

I was trying to think of when it was that hunting became an agricultural activity. At some point hunters decided that it wasn't enough to hunt deer that are kind of reacting in ways that nature intended them to. We learned that we could change their habits and patterns with food. It was kind of like baiting only legal......lol. In our search for ways to condition the deer to be easier to harvest, we stumbled on to "food plots". I figure that when we decided to change deer behavior to more predictable patterns, we probably began to think of hunting as deer manipulation. The only problem is that as hard as the concept was being sold TV, magazines, and actual seminars, it was only available to landowners who had a significant amount of land, and the finances to afford tractors and implements and such. This meant that hunters started to think that the only way to success (defined now by "scores") was to get into this idea and practice of deer feed agriculture.

When I first got into hunting, the way to success (as we defined it) was to have a gun that could be counted on, and two good feet and patience, and an expectation that was not all that high to call success. After that, the school of hard knocks was the way you advanced your skills. Not so much what you could afford in tractors and land and seed. Somewhere along the line, hunting goals became redirected toward how much money can we throw at it to buy our success.

Could it be that this too has discouraged a lot of potential hunters? Perhaps this is just one more change that has entered into our hunting that has taken a bit of the luster off the activity? 

[Doc]

Another major change that has taken place is the role of the animal rights wackos. Yeah, I know we all made fun of them and they often seemed to be shooting themselves in the foot, they constantly looked like ridiculous fools that nobody ever thought would gain a foothold. But now with a few decades of history behind us, we see anti-hunting and anti-trapping and even in some cases anti-fishing attitudes all around us. The Hollywood crowd with their bags of money have bank-rolled these weirdos to the point where the movement is very real. Listen to what the kids today are parroting back to us from their teachers. We never knew what kind of success they were having until we started hearing it from the kids that our public schools are cranking out.