Looks like there may just be statewide Antler Restricts.

[bubba]

20 some pages later and t hey have not even sent out a survey yet.  I love it

[growalot]

During a good rut year that's when...

[Lawdwaz]

During a good rut year that's when...

 

As I stated.

 

Is there such thing as a bad "rut year"?

[dbHunterNY]

Did I read that right. You want a restriction to protect 3.5 year olds?

 

no.  I'm saying that we should protect all yearlings and most 2.5 year old bucks.  they make up more than half of the buck population, a herd needs those numbers to have more productive doe dropping fawns earlier in the year.  more productive your deer herd the more there is to harvest from a biological stand point from year to year.  it's possible that an older buck that's say 3.5+ yrs old would be protected by spread and points restrictions, so you need a 3rd factor to allow it to be taken.  judging age takes lots of knowledge and practice for a given area so it's not feasible for state wide implementation.  need something joe smith can wrap his mind around and confirm.  so I guess gross B&C antler score would work to say hey this deer is bigger and older despite it's not 15" outside spread or has 3 points on both sides.  This is a very very rare case but could still happen.

[phade]

As I stated.

 

Is there such thing as a bad "rut year"?

 

From a hunter perspective, yes.

 

We view the rut more as a "what do hunters see" thing rather than the biological version of it.

 

Poor weather conditions can drive more nighttime activity.

Edited January 9, 2015 by phade

[phade]

no.  I'm saying that we should protect all yearlings and most 2.5 year old bucks.  they make up more than half of the buck population, a herd needs those numbers to have more productive doe dropping fawns earlier in the year.  more productive your deer herd the more there is to harvest from a biological stand point from year to year.  it's possible that an older buck that's say 3.5+ yrs old would be protected by spread and points restrictions, so you need a 3rd factor to allow it to be taken.  judging age takes lots of knowledge and practice for a given area so it's not feasible for state wide implementation.  need something joe smith can wrap his mind around and confirm.  so I guess gross B&C antler score would work to say hey this deer is bigger and older despite it's not 15" outside spread or has 3 points on both sides.  This is a very very rare case but could still happen.

 

AR to protect 2.5s now?

 

Sheesh.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

no.  I'm saying that we should protect all yearlings and most 2.5 year old bucks.  they make up more than half of the buck population, a herd needs those numbers to have more productive doe dropping fawns earlier in the year.  more productive your deer herd the more there is to harvest from a biological stand point from year to year.  it's possible that an older buck that's say 3.5+ yrs old would be protected by spread and points restrictions, so you need a 3rd factor to allow it to be taken.  judging age takes lots of knowledge and practice for a given area so it's not feasible for state wide implementation.  need something joe smith can wrap his mind around and confirm.  so I guess gross B&C antler score would work to say hey this deer is bigger and older despite it's not 15" outside spread or has 3 points on both sides.  This is a very very rare case but could still happen.

Wow. Promoting protecting 2.5's on a state wide..wow...wow.

 

As far as using B&C. go into any of the threads there and see how inaccurate some guesses are from a picture. Now you think it happening in the field would be any more accurate? What you choose to do on your land is your business, but promoting a program to protect most 2.5's is totally unrealistic.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Culvercreek hunt club

[First-light]

That there is quite a statement.  You must be hand feeding that 4.5 YO buck in the backyard pen?

 

If not confined, please explain when a 4.5 YO would ever be as easy to kill as a yearling? 

 

The rut? Well I'll say this; that would be about the only time that your odds would go up to kill that buck but for all the guys in the woods bowhunting the rut, you sure don't see many 4.5 YO bucks killed. 

You give them too much credit. During the rut they are stupid! Over the years I have seen mature bucks out in the open during the middle of the day, during a rain storm and such. Know your food source also, them boys got to eat!

Edited January 9, 2015 by First-light

[SteveB]

AR to protect 2.5s now?

 

Sheesh.

 

 

That is why I don't support any mandatory AR.

I see no reason to tell hunters that can't shoot a 1.5 if they choose only to have more 2.5's to shoot.

[Five Seasons]

My comment was directed at him and his statement and had nothing to do with you. In fact, it was meant in your defense. Obviously that was too hard for YOU to figure out... my website has nothing to do with anything... I promote nothing... I post ALL the pictures and stories sent to me.. there is no selection process... therefore no hypocrisy. My website is strictly entertainment for those that want to participate... it has nothing to do with what, where, when or why I hunt... what in Gods name gives you any idea that something on this forum could possibly upset me... LOL... it's a stupid forum for crying out loud... just people talking... none of it is important.. it's just entertainment for me. But obviously very important to you.. LMAO

There is nothing very important to me. Thanks for clarifying your comment. My bad.

[Five Seasons]

JHC is that a pretty simple statement.

Of course it is possible, what do you think, that 3.5 year old buck just hunkers down on a little 10 acre piece and doesn't move off it?

They certainly don't follow property lines. They're wild animals, you sure as hell aren't going to predict or keep them on a 10 or 200 acre piece. They can pass through anytime at all and you just have to bi the right place/right time. Don't kid yourself............

What is your point? Are you disagreeing with me or trying to prove a different point? We were talking about the amount of land needed to kill a buck. I was just commenting like some others. 10 acres in the burbs surrounded by land that isn't hinted is probably better than 1k in the Daks.

[Five Seasons]

Maybe there is a little confusion here........I'm not talking opening day, Thanksgiving etc.

How about the third week? Piece of cake to shoot a 1.5 old buck or a doe? How about that last weekend?

Easy as pie huh?

I don't do a lot of fun hunting. Pick up a bow. The rut and less spooked deer. Try it out and report back.

[Five Seasons]

There is nothing wrong with someone saying that killing a younger buck is easy... in fact, I am saying it... at least I'm saying it is for me.. it is not the same for everybody. It is easy for some guys to kill deer and harder for others... that's just the truth... not good or bad just true. Nothing wrong with the truth.. except some people have a tough time with it. I find it difficult to dunk a basketball, Lebron James thinks it's easy... is he wrong? No, the truth is that most 5' 10 white guys can't dunk a basketball.. so I wouldn't see it as a "slap in the face" if Lebron James said it was easy. Because for him it is!!

basketball-dunk-smiley-emoticon.gif

Exactly. And good analogy.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

You give them too much credit. During the rut they are stupid! Over the years I have seen mature bucks out in the open during the middle of the day, during a rain storm and such. Know your food source also, them boys got to eat!

So true. We have rutting action alot during the day in the month of Nov. Many times i have had soldier's stop and ask if they can run out back and shoot the buck that out there chasing a doe around.  Pressure has so much to do with deer movement. 750 acres and here are times when only 1 person may be on it for a week. We can go to the tier and hunt with the bow.and come how to the wives saying ..oh i saw this buck in that bean field and so many does in that corn field.         Less-Smarter hunting= More Success!

[jjb4900]

There is nothing wrong with someone saying that killing a younger buck is easy... in fact, I am saying it... at least I'm saying it is for me.. it is not the same for everybody. It is easy for some guys to kill deer and harder for others... that's just the truth... not good or bad just true.  Nothing wrong with the truth.. except some people have a tough time with it. I find it difficult to dunk a basketball, Lebron James thinks it's easy... is he wrong? No, the truth is that most 5' 10 white guys can't dunk a basketball.. so I wouldn't see it as a "slap in the face" if Lebron James said it was easy. Because for him it is!!

 

basketball-dunk-smiley-emoticon.gif

Actually, you can take the absolute worst hunter set him up in a prime location with a good population of nice bucks, tell him exactly what to do and eventually he'll get one, thousands of guys who kill big deer on guided hunts prove that.............on the other hand, we can set you up with the best sneakers, best basketball, put you on a great court and you'll still fail.

Edited January 9, 2015 by jjb4900

[steve863]

Killing a young buck may be easier in some locations than others, but I'd like to see the guy who could absolutely put one down in ANY location in a given day or two of hunting time.  That is easier said than done.  Those who think that they could do this in ANY location have either not hunted long enough or have hunted their whole careers in locations where deer were plentiful and seen every time out.  That is surely NOT the case for a lot of hunters out there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dbHunterNY]

AR to protect 2.5s now?

 

Sheesh.

 

 

Wow. Promoting protecting 2.5's on a state wide..wow...wow.

 

As far as using B&C. go into any of the threads there and see how inaccurate some guesses are from a picture. Now you think it happening in the field would be any more accurate? What you choose to do on your land is your business, but promoting a program to protect most 2.5's is totally unrealistic.

the restrictions in my posts would protect some 2.5 yr olds yes.  honestly, "most" 2.5 yr olds won't be protected with them.  some definitely will though.  phade i think you know this and culver I'm not sure how deep into qdm you are.  that's the word on the street and what I've seen.  "most" was the wrong word so yes I screwed that up.  heck say most and when you fall a little short your right on target.  seems to be the real world outcomes with deer stuff for what I've seen.  goals usually fall a little short but that's still ok.  About the whole B&C score just simmer down.  The point is you have to have a third piece to a restriction that trumps the other two.  otherwise hunters will be bent over because a buck's bigger, older, and protected.  I said Texas does 6 points to a side I think, maybe that's an option state wide.  What do all of you think would be that good third piece?

 

I'm just trying to productively add to the conversation instead of pissing all over someone's post.  if DEC is cooking any ideas involving this stuff why would hunters not want to talk about it, whether you're for it or not.  Beats sitting by and complaining about anything that's screwed up later.

[stoneam2006]

Killing a young buck may be easier in some locations than others, but I'd like to see the guy who could absolutely put one down in ANY location in a given day or two of hunting time. That is easier said than done. Those who think that they could do this in ANY location have either not hunted long enough or have hunted their whole careers in locations where deer were plentiful and seen every time out. That is surely NOT the case for a lot of hunters out there.

Perfect

....I'm lucky enough to hunt the adks fingerlakes farm country and the southern tier.

In 5 years in ADKs I've seen 2 doe that's it and that's with putting miles on the ground.

See deer every time out in fingerlakes but they are skiddish and take off quick. Been hunting same spots my whole life so have a good idea where deer are to begin with.

See deer almost every time I'm out in southern tier zone but again I have hunted it my entire life as has my dad so ik where yo go where to look but again idc if the deer I'd 6 months old or 6 years old if you get within range of the deer on any of the properties I hunt you have succeeded as a hunter. It's not easy.

Hunting on a private farm in some spots of the fingerlakes where you can drive by on any given day and see deer in fields yes I would imagine shooting a yearling deer there is easy. But that's not the case in the other 75% of ny

[moog5050]

 I said Texas does 6 points to a side I think, maybe that's an option state wide. 

 

 

If you have to wait for a 12pt before shooting, not many of us will be shooting many bucks.  In the last 3 years we have only had one buck with 12pts or more (17) even on cam and we have pretty good property to hunt.

 

This is the TX AR:

 

Special Antler Restrictions

• Antler restrictions apply only in certain counties (see County Listings). In these counties, the bag limit is two legal bucks, but only ONE may have an inside spread of 13 inches or greater. In these counties, a legal buck deer is defined as having:
  • a hardened antler protruding through the skin AND;
  • at least one unbranched antler; OR
  • an inside spread measurement between main beams of 13 inches or greater (does not apply to a buck that has an unbranched antler).
• In these counties it is unlawful to take more than one buck with an inside spread of 13 inches or greater.
• To determine if a buck has an inside spread measurement of at least 13 inches, look at the distance from ear-tip to ear-tip on a buck with ears in the alert position (see illustration).
• Does not apply on Level 2 or 3 MLDP properties.
• Definition of a point: A point is a projection that extends at least one inch from the edge of a main beam or another tine. The tip of the main beam is also a point.

[Five Seasons]

That is why I don't support any mandatory AR.

I see no reason to tell hunters that can't shoot a 1.5 if they choose only to have more 2.5's to shoot.

A 2.5 is a nice buck most of the time. There's a line we can't cross with ARs. This is kind of why ARs are such a hot topic. A buck is a buck and a harvest is a harvest. Hard to decide and agree what's ok and what's not ok to harvest. Maybe you can look at 2.5'a and argue they've had more time to grow and provide a better challenge and it's more of a "fair fight". I honestly don't know. I just think you need to draw the line and a 2.5 makes sense to me. Just my opinion.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

the restrictions in my posts would protect some 2.5 yr olds yes.  honestly, "most" 2.5 yr olds won't be protected with them.  some definitely will though.  phade i think you know this and culver I'm not sure how deep into qdm you are.  that's the word on the street and what I've seen.  "most" was the wrong word so yes I screwed that up.  heck say most and when you fall a little short your right on target.  seems to be the real world outcomes with deer stuff for what I've seen.  goals usually fall a little short but that's still ok.  About the whole B&C score just simmer down.  The point is you have to have a third piece to a restriction that trumps the other two.  otherwise hunters will be bent over because a buck's bigger, older, and protected.  I said Texas does 6 points to a side I think, maybe that's an option state wide.  What do all of you think would be that good third piece?

 

I'm just trying to productively add to the conversation instead of pissing all over someone's post.  if DEC is cooking any ideas involving this stuff why would hunters not want to talk about it, whether you're for it or not.  Beats sitting by and complaining about anything that's screwed up later.

So now 12 point minimum?

 

To use NY Antlers analogy what you are suggesting is taking the basketball rim and raising it to 14' because you don't like the use of the dunk in scoring and moving the 3 point line out to half court. Really raises the skill level required to play the game but wouldn't make for a pretty $hitty sport to watch or participate in.

 

I am all for QDM, familiar with the process and management approach. Not in favor of shoving my CHOICES down another hunters' throat.

[Five Seasons]

Actually, you can take the absolute worst hunter set him up in a prime location with a good population of nice bucks, tell him exactly what to do and eventually he'll get one, thousands of guys who kill big deer on guided hunts prove that.............on the other hand, we can set you up with the best sneakers, best basketball, put you on a great court and you'll still fail.

I agree but I think in general on average NY land, there are some people who are just better hunters. It's not their gear. They're just more dedicated and experienced.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I agree but I think in general on average NY land, there are some people who are just better hunters. It's not their gear. They're just more dedicated and experienced.

So these more dedicated and experienced hunters want a larger quantity of mature deer to hunt. So let's further hamper the less dedicated or less experienced hunters to accommodate them, with decreasing hunter participation and increasing access issues? I don't know, this whole thing seems counter productive to me.

[BizCT]

For the all the superstars out there, when are one of you going to step up to a real challenge and come down to 3N and shoot a 130" buck on public land?

[jjb4900]

For the all the superstars out there, when are one of you going to step up to a real challenge and come down to 3N and shoot a 130" buck on public land?

I say one of those guys swaps a hunt with you, you go to their big buck producing property and they come down to your hunting land......we'll see what happens after a week long hunt.