Winter 2015...

[wooly]

Guys, check out this video my buddy Monte put together from this past winter.

If you don't like to see deer suffering and dying, then DON'T watch it!

He's got some other AWESOME nature videos on his channel if you got some time to spare, check them out.

The man is a true outdoorsman I respect a great deal!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsvg-B4VUbQ

[First-light]

Tough video but something we all have to be aware of. What area was the video made in wooly? This winter sucked no question about that.

[wooly]

Tough video but something we all have to be aware of. What area was the video made in wooly? This winter sucked no question about that.

 

 East of Syracuse.

[Doc]

This is a video that should be made mandatory viewing for all of the anti-hunting activists so they could see one of the alternatives to hunting.

 

Damn, I am not much of a softy, but some of those scenes were very hard to look at.

 

Thanks for the link.

[fasteddie]

That is a real eye opener !

[Paula]

It was hard to watch but it makes you think of what happens out there for the deer, a small piece of what happens any way. 

Most people or hunters only think of deer when the season gets closer and when its over so are they're thoughts 

[First-light]

I guess trying to figure out the carrying capacity of a certain area is tough. Snow depth plays a big part of the picture along with available food source. For those of you who strictly trophy hunt and pass on the small ones, does this make you think twice? Not trying to start a battle just asking a legit question if leaving tags unfilled benefits the heard? Think about passing a scrub 4 point that makes it through the season only to eat the browse a button buck (with great genes) losses out to and starves to death,…..the circle of life!

[The_Field_Ager]

Personally I think hunting and what happens in nature during sever weather are two separate concerns. The former has little bearing on the outcome of the later. Other states allow a period of feeding during bad weather. To me this manifests a better attitude toward stewardship in these areas. Some folk think that letting nature take it's course is stewardship and management. To me, it is just sitting back and doing nothing, ie, the opposite of stewardship. The argument that states that killing yearlings, when they are going to die anyway, is good management, makes little sense and seems like a short sighted view of things. It might help a little for one or two seasons but we are facing longer term weather trends now. How many years of bad winters and aggressive targeting  of yearlings has to pass before we see a negative impact on numbers across the board ? 

 

Deer numbers have been going down in our area. Last season was my worst for deer sightings to date, and that includes my pre-hunting years. If indeed we are in for more harsh winters, as is being predicated, it makes sense to have  legal, supplemental feeding during  winter to assist our deer and reverse the current trend.

Edited April 25, 2015 by Papist

[Four Season Whitetail's]

If more people stood up for their deer and against the bull of suplementing deer during our hard winter we would not see as much of this. Yes deer need to be harvested and numbers kept in check but to live by the bull of deer being harmed by feeding them in the winter because of diesease and such is just that. Bull.  Done right by people/landowners that know deer and their needs the deer make it through if awesome condition. Trust me, I see it every year on many pieces of properties. Just a few round bales of Alfalfa left in known wintering areas does wonders.

 

Coyotes may get a few but starvation gets none.

[wooly]

I guess trying to figure out the carrying capacity of a certain area is tough. Snow depth plays a big part of the picture along with available food source. For those of you who strictly trophy hunt and pass on the small ones, does this make you think twice? Not trying to start a battle just asking a legit question if leaving tags unfilled benefits the heard? Think about passing a scrub 4 point that makes it through the season only to eat the browse a button buck (with great genes) losses out to and starves to death,…..the circle of life!

 

That's a good question Burt. I don't think this vid is going to change any ones mind about what they're goals are for hunting season.

Some guys will still deny this sort of thing (mass winterkill) even happened in their areas. While everyone thinks that food plots make up the bulk of a deers diet throughout the winter, I'd have to disagree with that around my area. The fact is the deer couldn't even get into these open areas first of all, and if they did, they certainly spent more energy digging through 4ft of snow than they walked away with.

 

It happens every year to some extent, but your average deer hunter will never see something like this once he locks his gun in the cabinet and settles in on the recliner until next fall.

It's much easier for hunters to blame the DEC for mis-management of the herd rather than it is for them to realize the reality of what happens out there when they leave the woods for the season.

Just listen up next fall when you hear all the crying about guys not seeing deer in general. We still have a few kill off stages to go through before then with spring fawning predation, yards breaking up, and summer and fall roadkills which can pile up in a hurry as well.

 

I have to say, nothing pizzes me off more than hearing guys say "the deer look good and healthy" when they see a herd along the road throughout the winter months. Not 30 yds inside the woodline could be a pile of deer belly up that they'll never see.

I read it here all the time. The guys that take a walk around their property after the snow melts and finds one or two dead deer and think all is well with the herd. That's simply not the way you get an accurate total of winterkill estimation for an sizeable area, but it's the easiest way for hunters to assess winter survival. Put it this way... if you found 2 dead deer on your 40 acres, there's probably 2 more on your neighbors 40, and there may be 10 more on the next guys 20... and it goes on and on.

 

I could really give a crap what other hunters criteria are for pulling the trigger. Trophy bucks, fawns, all the doe your heart desires..... the real problem I got is most guys will never stop after season to evaluate what happens outside that month or two of weekends they spent in the woods. They take their harvest numbers alone for what they're worth and base future hunting expectations off of that alone. You can do that, and it works to an extent for your average guy, but that's not really much of a management plan as they like to make it sound.

[ncountry]

    I know it is how nature works , but that is always sad to see..   I feel cursed and lucky in my home area.. We have a fairly low deer population and there are 100s of acres of "woods" . The local woods consists of cedar,brush and trees where the maximum line of sight is 30 yds if you find a little lane or trail.. We have cut cedar for leaves and posts for 30+ years and it is still growing faster than we cut it..

[Four Season Whitetail's]

That's a good question Burt. I don't think this vid is going to change any ones mind about what they're goals are for hunting season.

Some guys will still deny this sort of thing (mass winterkill) even happened in their areas. While everyone thinks that food plots make up the bulk of a deers diet throughout the winter, I'd have to disagree with that around my area. The fact is the deer couldn't even get into these open areas first of all, and if they did, they certainly spent more energy digging through 4ft of snow than they walked away with.

 

It happens every year to some extent, but your average deer hunter will never see something like this once he locks his gun in the cabinet and settles in on the recliner until next fall.

It's much easier for hunters to blame the DEC for mis-management of the herd rather than it is for them to realize the reality of what happens out there when they leave the woods for the season.

Just listen up next fall when you hear all the crying about guys not seeing deer in general. We still have a few kill off stages to go through before then with spring fawning predation, yards breaking up, and summer and fall roadkills which can pile up in a hurry as well.

 

I have to say, nothing pizzes me off more than hearing guys say "the deer look good and healthy" when they see a herd along the road throughout the winter months. Not 30 yds inside the woodline could be a pile of deer belly up that they'll never see.

I read it here all the time. The guys that take a walk around their property after the snow melts and finds one or two dead deer and think all is well with the herd. That's simply not the way you get an accurate total of winterkill estimation for an sizeable area, but it's the easiest way for hunters to assess winter survival. Put it this way... if you found 2 dead deer on your 40 acres, there's probably 2 more on your neighbors 40, and there may be 10 more on the next guys 20... and it goes on and on.

 

I could really give a crap what other hunters criteria are for pulling the trigger. Trophy bucks, fawns, all the doe your heart desires..... the real problem I got is most guys will never stop after season to evaluate what happens outside that month or two of weekends they spent in the woods. They take their harvest numbers alone for what they're worth and base future hunting expectations off of that alone. You can do that, and it works to an extent for your average guy, but that's not really much of a management plan as they like to make it sound.

Thats because 99% of hunters are not managers. They hunt,kill deer,fill tags and move on. Very few hunters really take a piece of property and make it deer friendly and in some areas that really does not matter. Deer are only going to yard up for winter in a few different places. If the work is not done where the deer really spend their winters then it really does not matter. Food plots will feed them while you are hunting them but when winter really sets in the deer will leave most properties and group up in a few winter friendly places.

[jjb4900]

I'm certainly not going to start shooting every small deer that I can tag just because we MIGHT have a bad winter. I'm sure what we now get to see on film has been happening every time we get clobbered with snowfall. I'm not suggesting anyone do anything illegal, but I know what I would do if I had that happening in areas that I had access to, and especially if I was taking the time to film it..........

[NFA-ADK]

Tough to watch.  Thanks for sharing.  2015 I hope will be considered one of the worst winters and not the norm in the future.  Only benefit I can think of would be this years fawns might have an easer time with less deer eating and competing for food this winter.

[Buckstopshere]

Some parts tough to watch, but well done video, showing a tragic side of nature. Thanks for sharing.

 

[ncountry]

I think sometimes we can get carried away with putting a deer down to end its suffering. Sometime late spring we had a local dog get loose and actually caught a deer in my driveway . Someone saw it and chased the dog off and called the DEC. When the officer arrived there was a lot of blood and remnants of ears.. They tracked deer for a while to put it down but never found it.. Earlier this week I see her out in the field eating with some others. no ears... none..poor girl.. To top it off it is the same doe I have numerous pics and video of that has her fawns and basically lives in and around my yard for a month every year. She is easily recognized by her  twisted and I assume previously broken leg .  I  think I will probably let her live if she passes me in my stand again , she is one tough, albeit funny looking cookie now.

[grampy]

Deer have survived and done just fine for thousands of years. Long before us humans came along. Now we hunt,manage,feed,starve,hit with vehicles,love,hate,respect and detest them. Yet they are still here and for the most part,holding their own. Amazing animals they are!

[First-light]

This year on Long Island the wetlands where frozen for a long period of time. The public was allowed to feed the waterfowl because starvation was setting in and that's all I'm going to say about that. lol

[growalot]

Well God Bless him for being a great teacher for his child ...I sincerely hope that this has been forwarded to the DEC..Thank you for sharing...and no I will not be going out and shooting young deer..for NOT ALL habitats are the same...We have a very healthy number of last years fawns that made it through some very tough weather...

[132 eight pointer]

Very intelligent young lady your friend has there.She narrates excellently.

[Doc]

Well, just to play devil's advocate for a minute, I have to wonder if feeding deer might possibly create an unnaturally higher deer density than the already inadequate habitat can support. As horrific as the video is, one has to wonder how getting more deer through a winter that is exposing a situation of excessive numbers of deer already is going to keep from making conditions far worse in subsequent years.

 

What do you think? Would feeding deer every year have an effect of elevating deer density every year to a point where when you do get one of these ugly winters, the numbers collapse catastrophically when the supplemental feeding suddenly becomes insufficient.

 

Here is a scenario that I remember reading about once. This kindly old lady began feeding a couple of deer that hung out in her yard. In almost no time at all, she had dozens of deer showing up. She tried valiantly to keep up with the growing numbers, but they were breaking the bank, and so she had to stop the feeding. So, what do you suppose happened to all those deer that she had saved, and that she had artificially enticed and concentrated in that one small area?

 

Just a few questions to think and talk about.

[First-light]

This is true Doc. Its a slippery slope we make for ourselves. Feeding can open up a lot of questions down the road.

[thphm]

Planting trees and bushes as mentioned in the vid. does help , every hemlock , ceader and pine tree have been eaten 4' to 5' from the ground on my property this past winter, hinge cutting some trees that I intended to cut up for fire wood also helped.A good thing is that my neighbor planted a large amount of he trees in the vid. 35 years ago. it is there safe haven the bad weather. The little guys and gals that bed and go threw my property made it threw the winter , they were very thin compared to the fall ,but they made it threw.

I would think feeding them in a bad winter that we had might help but only in moderation not as a 5 gal. bucket of feed at a time ( depending on the amount of deer ) and only feed that they can digest.But how do you get to where they are held up with 3' or more of snow on the ground.

[wolc123]

There are many reasons not to feed deer, but there never has been any shortage of people willing to justify it in their own minds. Some say food-plotting is feeding and sometimes can be. I use food-plots simply to ease the task of killing deer during hunting season and a perfect plot would be consumed 100% by the last day of ML season. The best way to help deer thru the winter is to kill enough in the fall to reduce the number to well under carrying capacity in a tough winter. Most places in NY, at least where I have hunted, have quite a bit more deer than they should. This past winter was tough but it stopped just in the nick of time, before any excessive winter kill in the areas I hunt (western zone 9F and northern zone 6C).

By far, the best way for a deer to perish is from a well-placed bullet or arrow from a hunter. Starvation, road-kill, predator-kill, or disease are far less pleasant, as that video shows. What we need is more hunters and better tools (CROSSBOW, RIFLE) to get the job done. More and more formerly "shotgun-only" areas are converting to rifle and the crossbow has finally gained a small foothold, so at least NY is headed in the right direction as far as the tools go. I don't know how we can reverse the trend hunters leaving the sport faster than entering it however. If we don't reverse it we will likely see a lot more of that starvation in the future.

[The_Field_Ager]

Heavy snow does not reduce the amount of forage available. It simply makes it very difficult to get at, especially when snow packs down. We had almost a foot of near ice under the snow this last winter.

 

I wonder if those states that do practice supplemental feeding have had issues? Presumably the practice would have been halted?

Edited April 26, 2015 by Papist