Really! Does only.....

[G-Man]

The dec changed to purchasefor doe tags as the thought was if they have to buy them they will fill them.... it doesn't work that way ,it's the same with turkey tags, everyone buys one for 5.00 and they may not fall hunt turkeys at all. But get it incase they see one.

Edited May 21, 2015 by G-Man

[G-Man]

Too many doe will only be handled if it's open for early muzzleloader, a crossbow doe only, or earn a buck. Any other attempt will fail, it's hot 1st 2 weeks of October and doe only then will just push back op e ing of bow for many till either sex starts. (Just follow comments here on site if you don't believe it.)

[fasteddie]

It won't bother me . I will bow hunt the whole bow season and fill whatever doe tags I can . If bucks aren't allowed , I will shoot them with my CAMERA .

People spend $1000+ for a bow with accessories and cry about being charged $10 for Doe Permits !  Get real !

[Paula]

It won't bother me . I will bow hunt the whole bow season and fill whatever doe tags I can . If bucks aren't allowed , I will shoot them with my CAMERA .

People spend $1000+ for a bow with accessories and cry about being charged $10 for Doe Permits !  Get real !

I agree with you. I look at it as $10 for 35-50 pounds of meat. Great deal

[NYBuckHunter27]

Part 1, Sections 1.11 and 1.30 - Deer Hunting Seasons and Deer Management Assistance Permits

This rulemaking is to establish, or authorize the department to establish by regulation, certain basic wildlife management tools, including the setting of open areas, and restrictions on methods of take and possession.

• Text of Proposed Regulation - Underlines contained in the text of the express terms denote new material. Brackets [ ] indicate material to be deleted.
• Regulatory Impact Statement

Comments will be accepted from May 13, 2015 through June 29, 2015.

Send comments to:

Bryan Swift

NYSDEC

625 Broadway

Albany, NY 12233

or e-mail comments to: Proposed Rulemaking Part 1, Sections 1.11 and 1.30 - Deer Hunting Seasons and Deer Management Assistance Permits

 

 

 

 

Just a heads up i believe you want to send comments to Mr.Swift, if im reading this correctly.

[Two Track]

If they really wanted to reduce the does, why charge for doe tags (besides the money/greed aspect)?

 

• Or wouldn't make more sense to hand out the doe tags and make the buck tags be in the lottery?  That would force more people to hunt the does.
• Or something like West Point's restrictions, you must take a doe before harvesting a buck?

But you guys have had it good.

 

Seasons were very different where I grew up, plus no Sunday hunting to boot.  No rifles allowed in 3/4 of the state except 22's for squirrel and groundhogs/woodchucks.

 

•  Oct. archery only
• 1 week Nov. gun either sex (Saturday to Saturday)
• rest of Nov archery/primitive weapon (ie. black powder)
• 1.5 weeks in Dec. gun antler-less only
• 1 week in January gun season antler-less

 

There was no small game/migratory bird seasons during gun deer season. So no shooting annoying squirrels while deer hunting.  If found afield with anything other than slugs or 00 Buckshot during deer gun season, you were fined at a minimum, or could face more serious penalties.

 

So, twenty years ago where I grew up, you had only 7 days to harvest a buck in gun season and max out at two deer total for the year.

 

You guys have had it good and didn't really know it.

 

Not saying don't fight potential bad game laws or season changes.  Just realize that at some places it is a lot worse that what you have now and they are just trying to keep the deer population at good levels without bringing in Pro's to do it.

 

[phade]

Part 1, Sections 1.11 and 1.30 - Deer Hunting Seasons and Deer Management Assistance Permits

This rulemaking is to establish, or authorize the department to establish by regulation, certain basic wildlife management tools, including the setting of open areas, and restrictions on methods of take and possession.

• Text of Proposed Regulation - Underlines contained in the text of the express terms denote new material. Brackets [ ] indicate material to be deleted.
• Regulatory Impact Statement

Comments will be accepted from May 13, 2015 through June 29, 2015.

Send comments to:

Bryan Swift

NYSDEC

625 Broadway

Albany, NY 12233

or e-mail comments to: Proposed Rulemaking Part 1, Sections 1.11 and 1.30 - Deer Hunting Seasons and Deer Management Assistance Permits

Just a heads up i believe you want to send comments to Mr.Swift, if im reading this correctly.

Yes and you know why its up there? Me. As soon as you posted this, they emailed me thanking me for letting them know it wasnt posted on the site...and a week of comment period was wasted as there was no info on where to send comments. How lame is that?

[NYBuckHunter27]

Yes and you know why its up there? Me. As soon as you posted this, they emailed me thanking me for letting them know it wasnt posted on the site...and a week of comment period was wasted as there was no info on where to send comments. How lame is that?

 

Yeah not surprising, you have to copy the email link into your email message before it will  bring up an actually email address...they don't make it easy. I hope you don't mind i also copied your message and sent it to Mr.Swift, that was another reason for my last post i believe you have yours addressed to Mr.Schiavone.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I didn't think about that...but in reality how many do you think came from after gun season opened...maybe 1k give or take....I'd still be willing to bet that with full inclusion the archery season take would grow substantially with just that little modification

Hard to say, but i know a bunch of guys that used them for late season. I want to see full inclusion too.

[nyantler]

I honestly believe that opening bow season to guns will happen. That issue of an early muzzle-loader season hasn't really gone away yet. I think the DEC regrets putting so much of the deer season in the hands of a bunch of buck hunters. I overheard a DEC person talking to a group of other DEC people call bowhunters a bunch of buck-hunters during a break at one of the public state-of-the-herd meetings. I am sure that the attitude at the DEC is that bow season is a waste of good deer harvesting time that could be used much more efficiently with firearms. 

 

I have a hard time with looking at hunters in categories... I'm a bow hunter, a gun hunter, like I always say, I'd hunt with a hammer if they had a hammer season. I always pass on does early saving the my doe tags for the late muzzleloader to ensure that I can get out to hunt late season.. I rarely have unfilled doe tags at the end of the season. The  DEC   would be right calling me a buck hunter, yet I still always do my part by filling my doe tags.

 

I think the DEC would be smart in giving up incentives to take does... extension of the season maybe... added buck tag etc... I like the "earn a buck" idea... possibly offering guaranteed permits for the following year for each permit filled. We live in an age where many people won't give something without getting something... I say whatever gets us to the objective.

Edited May 22, 2015 by nyantler

[growalot]

I believe including a link to this thread to each netherworld be a good thing.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Personally I this making the DMAP process easier is counter productive to what is the true problem in the areas with the population issues. Land access. All the tags and pull them out of your backside programs won't change anything g u less you can get to them.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Personally I this making the DMAP process easier is counter productive to what is the true problem in the areas with the population issues. Land access. All the tags and pull them out of your backside programs won't change anything g u less you can get to them.

1oo% Agree and thats where hunting is and has been going for years. Leases eat up good land to raise/grow trophy bucks.  They do their own management on those properties and if does are not in the program then they wont get shot.  Growing the bone and using the does as bait.

[growalot]

Well hunters shot their own foot over the years on that point...there is no going back...also farms do open up lands...just for $$$$ now.I bet the guys leasing said farms just love the idea of easier DMAP access with less reporting? You truly don't think private land owners should be forced to open their lands up, do you? Perhaps the hunting clubs should be told they have to figure 25 acres per member and increase membership allowances. This if they own or lease say more that 500 acres..impossible to do......

 

Though having corporations with say, more that 15 acres open up for bow in cities on the week end when many offices/operations are basically closed. Have them recruit bow hunters that work for them. That should be approached...put hunters on a list and test skills before allowing them to hunt like some park hunts do. Get golf courses to reduce a section of the course at a time on what ever slow day they may have, in general, and allow late afternoon bow hunts... Convince them it that should save them damage thus $$$$ and not cause too many issues...Allow for such areas to be hunted the half hour before sun rise and after sun set to achieve those goals in those controlled settings.

Question does the DEC ever approach such entities with such suggestions in order to help them obtain their goals in areas such as 8H?  If not why not ? Wouldn't you think it should be part of their management plan?

[nyantler]

1oo% Agree and thats where hunting is and has been going for years. Leases eat up good land to raise/grow trophy bucks.  They do their own management on those properties and if does are not in the program then they wont get shot.  Growing the bone and using the does as bait.

 

True, I don't see any of that changing any time soon... access may be a problem and by the looks of things it is going to stay that way for some time... so the real issue is giving incentives to all hunters to do their part to reduce doe populations where needed. We all talk about being big conservation minded, ethical, moral hunters... but when it comes down to it there are many hunters not even trying to fill DMPs in their area... so it wouldn't matter how much access you gave them, they still wouldn't be filling tags.

[growalot]

nyantler...I have never had an issue filling doe tags when possible...believe my posts over the years show that...but I refuse to be told I'm only allowed to shoot doe  on my place when I go out the first 2wks. The whole your being punished because of the actions or inaction of other bow hunters does not sit well with me...especially when the DEC doesn't delegate the proper # of doe tags for that specific time period in connection to this rule change.  Tell me your requiring me to earn a buck by taking a doe in my unit.... fine..but give me that doe tag and as a given, not a "lottery". No I Do Not consider the either or tag a given for doe...

 

Do I still consider myself a moral conservationist with this attitude? Your damn skippy right I do,because I won't buckle down and fall in line in the face of BAD management decisions

[Doc]

I am still confused as to why if the DEC is so panicked to knock down deer numbers in certain WMUs, why did they implement the fee for applying for antlerless permits. In fact, why are these permits not given out free and easily available as a printed out internet page. How seriously can one take all this panic attack that the DEC is going through over high populations when the best they can come up is to penalize bow hunters (only). You have to wonder why their actions do not involve gun hunters at all, even though that is where they would get their biggest bang for the buck.

 

And then there is the thought that if you really want to cut deer populations down in certain select areas, why would you place doe only restrictions on those areas and likely convince hunters to vacate the problem areas and hunt other areas? Does that make sense? Not to me.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I am still confused as to why if the DEC is so panicked to knock down deer numbers in certain WMUs, why did they implement the fee for applying for antlerless permits. In fact, why are these permits not given out free and easily available as a printed out internet page. How seriously can one take all this panic attack that the DEC is going through over high populations when the best they can come up is to penalize bow hunters (only). You have to wonder why their actions do not involve gun hunters at all, even though that is where they would get their biggest bang for the buck.

 

And then there is the thought that if you really want to cut deer populations down in certain select areas, why would you place doe only restrictions on those areas and likely convince hunters to vacate the problem areas and hunt other areas? Does that make sense? Not to me.

If they really wanted to take a number out of the referenced Western NY WMU's they could have come up with any number of options that would yield better results.

[SteveB]

If they really wanted to take a number out of the referenced Western NY WMU's they could have come up with any number of options that would yield better results.

 

 

But this one could account for 10's if not dozens of extra deer.

[NYBuckHunter27]

1oo% Agree and thats where hunting is and has been going for years. Leases eat up good land to raise/grow trophy bucks.  They do their own management on those properties and if does are not in the program then they wont get shot.  Growing the bone and using the does as bait.

 

i agree self management is a rising thing nowadays, i am one of those guys who is basically looking for bone and not shooting a doe until MAYBE the end of the season, but does that make me a bad conservationist, i think not. Its a personal choice whether or not to shoot a doe i typically don't because my family just doesn't need the meat, and if me and my father both shoot a buck than that's plenty of meat if only one of us does than that's fine also. i'd rather not see guys just shooting and wasting doe because the DEC says the population is too high. Wait till October and November when this site is filled with guys who are asking/saying, "where are the deer?", "No deer in my area" than we'll talk about the current populations. And we all know there are plenty of hunting parties not using and certainly not reporting their harvests, those large parties of guys doing deer drives are not tagging all those deer i can guarantee you that, not too mention all the deer poached.

 

Another reason i tend not to shoot doe especially on my home farm is that my neighbor is not afraid to shoot anything, no matter size or sex. Although i don't totally agree, i believe it is a personal choice and i truly believe he uses all the meat, i don't believe that everyone uses all the meat in every case of a deer killed.

[Doc]

I wonder if it has occurred to any of these geniuses that by restricting harvests to "doe only" that likely the overall hunting pressure in those select high population areas likely will go down as hunters opt to hunt other areas where they don't have to watch the buck of a lifetime walk by. Exactly the opposite of what they are trying to do.

 

(Cross-posted from the other thread)

[dbHunterNY]

If 10% of the hunters kill all the deer then maybe they should give more tags to those that can kill them?  I know some that hunt our properties find it hard to take a deer and then there is a couple that take 6-8 a year hunting the same property every year!

 

Throwing more tags at hunters that cant kill will not work....And that they found out!

 

i don't use all my tags but could definitely fill them all.  once my chest freezer is almost full to last the year i sit on the tags i have to and pass on those i can.  i do this, because...

- my freezer is full

- i want to allow opportunity for others to hunting the property to get something (pre-season we determine a doe harvest goal and don't go over it)

- mostly i get harassed by others in the surrounding area that can't hunt as well.  told I'm being greedy and harvesting too many doe.

- if i took more deer I'd donate to venison coalition anyway and probably still be made out to feel like an a**h***.

 

i take my fair share at least.  giving me more wouldn't do anything.  those that get a DMP and don't fill it.... never knew they existed but they do... just leaves me scratching my head.  buck behind every doe during regular season?  not hardly.

[Doc]

So I just got my latest issue of New York Outdoor News and they have a pretty good article on what I am starting to call the "DEC's war on bow hunting" .... lol. Well maybe it's not a war on bowhunting, but they now recognize that the crossbow issue has neutered the NY Bowhunters, and we now make an easy mark for anything they want to do to bow season.

 

This antlerless mandate for bowhunters only, now has a part 2 added in as part of their grand plan for deer management  balanced in the backs of bowhunters. Apparently there is a provision that they also have in mind that says that if the bowhunters don't do a good enough job of singlehandedly controlling the deer population, that old "early muzzleloader season" that was beaten back by NY Bowhunters a decade back, comes back as a punishment. The quote from DEC's Stang: "The next step - outlined in the Deer Management Plan - would be the implementation of a special antlerless only muzzleloader season in select WMUs. We could start to consider more aggressive tactics like an early muzzleloader season" Stang said.

 

I believe you can interpret all of that as when the bowhunters don't take care of the antlerless harvest requirements, we will jam guns into the regular bow season to whatever extent is necessary to handle the management needs.

 

I will resist the temptation to say "I told you so", but here comes the guns into bow season. Starts with the muzzleloaders just to set the precedent and after that? ..... Whatever they want to do.

 

I haven't heard any of the doe harvest remedies aimed at the gun season, so I can only assume that the bowhunters organization being properly trashed now, the DEC feels that the opposition is sufficiently crippled and the time to turn bow season into a more efficient doe harvest time-slot through whatever means possible is now. And now the blueprint for doing that is publicly laid out.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

i agree self management is a rising thing nowadays, i am one of those guys who is basically looking for bone and not shooting a doe until MAYBE the end of the season, but does that make me a bad conservationist, i think not. Its a personal choice whether or not to shoot a doe i typically don't because my family just doesn't need the meat, and if me and my father both shoot a buck than that's plenty of meat if only one of us does than that's fine also. i'd rather not see guys just shooting and wasting doe because the DEC says the population is too high. Wait till October and November when this site is filled with guys who are asking/saying, "where are the deer?", "No deer in my area" than we'll talk about the current populations. And we all know there are plenty of hunting parties not using and certainly not reporting their harvests, those large parties of guys doing deer drives are not tagging all those deer i can guarantee you that, not too mention all the deer poached.

 

Another reason i tend not to shoot doe especially on my home farm is that my neighbor is not afraid to shoot anything, no matter size or sex. Although i don't totally agree, i believe it is a personal choice and i truly believe he uses all the meat, i don't believe that everyone uses all the meat in every case of a deer killed.

I really think that is the wrong approach and what has these areas in the position they are in (As well as limited access). The doe take should be driven by population and the ability of the habitat to sustain them. If the property is over populated I believe as stewards of the resource we should be taking them if it is called for. Donate the venison. it costs you very little to do it. Basically gas to get it to a participating processor.

[WNYBuckHunter]

i don't use all my tags but could definitely fill them all.  once my chest freezer is almost full to last the year i sit on the tags i have to and pass on those i can.  i do this, because...

- my freezer is full

- i want to allow opportunity for others to hunting the property to get something (pre-season we determine a doe harvest goal and don't go over it)

- mostly i get harassed by others in the surrounding area that can't hunt as well.  told I'm being greedy and harvesting too many doe.

- if i took more deer I'd donate to venison coalition anyway and probably still be made out to feel like an a**h***.

 

i take my fair share at least.  giving me more wouldn't do anything.  those that get a DMP and don't fill it.... never knew they existed but they do... just leaves me scratching my head.  buck behind every doe during regular season?  not hardly.

 

 

There are guys out there that sit on doe tags because they think that if they sit on the tags, they wont be there for others to use. They dont realize that DEC issues far more tags than they need filled, just to get around issues like that. It does, however, create an issue because some of those guys are hunting areas with little to no public access, so the number of does that need to be taken, cant be. For the areas I hunt (8H,8N) its an access issue more than anything. Look at 8H and tell me how much public ground there is to hunt. Not much. Short of giving out some kind of financial benefit to landowners who allow public hunting, they are going to have an extremely hard time getting a significant rise in doe kill in those areas. Special seasons, more tags issued, etc just wont work.