New 2016 crossbow legislation introduced

[BizCT]

I absolutely think that a bowhunter education course should be required to use one.....

Agree. I took the bow hunter Ed cLass in NY in order for me to obtain a CT Xbow license. I thought it was pretty good actually. Edited March 27, 2016 by Biz-R-OWorld

[shawnhu]

Ya I'm all for crossbow! Any implement that a hunter decides to use for that hunt show be his choice . Only if allowed !

Like the Airgun.

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[Doc]

Ya I'm all for crossbow! Any implement that a hunter decides to use for that hunt show be his choice . Only if allowed !

Yes, lets get rid of special seasons altogether, and give hunters complete choice of weapons with no restrictions. That seems to be what everyone wants anyway. The heck with bowhunters and muzzleloader hunters. If they want to use the special weapons, let them all use it during the regular "Anything Goes Season". Eliminate all special privileges and exclusionary seasons and turn the bow season and muzzleloader special seasons over to whoever wants to use it.

[wolc123]

I would be willing to make a concession to those who are against full inclusion. That would be the acceptance of antler restrictions such as 3 points minimum or inside spread greater than 12". These would apply throughout archery season for those over 16 years of age who use a crossbow. Younger hunters could still take smaller bucks, as could those of all ages with conventional archery equipment.

Personally, my biggest issue with the current regs is that the deer where I live, which is in a zone where the DEC has struggled mightily to get the population under control, go almost completely nocturnal soon after they detect the pressure in the woods when archery season opens up. Getting out there early in that season, with a "silent" weapon is the key to finally getting those populations under control.

I think most would agree that conventional archery tackle is probably the least effective means of killing does, which are almost always in groups in these overpopulated zones, because it is so difficult to make the draw without getting busted by so many sets of eyes. The "predrawn" crossbow overcomes that issue and has the potential to finally get these populations under control.

Edited March 27, 2016 by wolc123

[jjb4900]

I think the biggest concern about full inclusion is the idea of a bunch of ying yangs, who never picked up a longbow, and never took an archery course, running out and buying crossbows and invading the woods thinking the weapon they are now holding is on par with a long gun.....at least that's mine. I think the majority of good, ethical hunters who have been hunting for awhile will not do that and will hunt with it much like they do with their compound or recurve....at least that's how I hunted with it, that and somewhat preserving the tradition of bowhunting the way I always envisioned it. I saw none of that last year, to be honest I didn't see another hunter hunting with a crossbow at all.....as far as it recruiting new hunters? I'd be very surprised if the numbers climbed that dramatically because of it.....harvest numbers would probably jump through the roof, but because of the hunters who know what they're doing already, those who suck will always suck no matter what weapon they choose....my biggest gripe of all was not making an archery course mandatory, especially if it's archery gear like many say....after hunting with a compound for 30 something years and using a crossbow for the first time last year, I will say it's 100x's easier then the compound and probably 1000x's easier then a recurve.....you remove so many aspects that are needed for being successful with a compound or recurve.......as much as I hate to admit it, if full inclusion happens, it will probably rank up there in the unfounded fear category, much like the dreaded youth hunt that was started a few years ago.

Edited March 27, 2016 by jjb4900

[stoneam2006]

Just wondering. In that the proposed new regs. indicate crossbow will require bowhunting privilege tags. That also means those who used crossbow under muzzleloader privilege only, will now have to take an bowhunter education course to get the bowhunter privilege. Are there any of you, who purchased and used crossbow without a bowhunter privilege, that may find themselves in that predicament?

PS: I send messages to both my state senator and assemblyman.

I won't be as I compound hunt also but I thought sence first talk of xbow that they should be required to take archery course....

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[stoneam2006]

Like the Airgun.

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Sure as long as it's in gun season

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[SteveB]

Just wondering. In that the proposed new regs. indicate crossbow will require bowhunting privilege tags.

That also means those who used crossbow under muzzleloader privilege only, will now have to take an

bowhunter education course to get the bowhunter privilege. Are there any of you, who purchased and used

crossbow without a bowhunter privilege, that may find themselves in that predicament?

The local archery shop has sold probably a couple hundred crossbows in the last couple years.

90% went to existing bowhunters. So at least locally, few will be affected by the new regulation.

[Tinlodge]

If and when the crossbow becomes a piece of archery equipment,a archery course would be mandated. This is something that NYCC has asked for from day one.

[jjb4900]

The local archery shop has sold probably a couple hundred crossbows in the last couple years.

90% went to existing bowhunters. So at least locally, few will be affected by the new regulation.

yeah, this isn't going to really be a huge recruitment tool.....at this point, lack of interest and dwindling numbers has very little to do with the weapons that are available.

[nyslowhand]

The local archery shop has sold probably a couple hundred crossbows in the last couple years.

90% went to existing bowhunters. So at least locally, few will be affected by the new regulation.

That's interesting! Bet it's a whole different crowd in the big box hunting stores where less expensive models are available...!?!

 

The DEC or NY legislature has creating a unique situation when they went the route with the required paper you sign and cut out of the reg booklet stating you're qualified to use a Xbow safely. I truly believe that to use a Xbow, you should  be required to take the archery hunter safety course. If the DEC requires this there will be an uproar from those that have used one for 2yrs and never took the bow course! What they should have done (I'm an expert at hindsight!) was to issue a nominal, maybe $10 license to hunt with a Xbow and now moving forward all those without that previous license or bow cert would be required to take the bow course. Will be interesting!

Edited March 27, 2016 by nyslowhand

[G-Man]

They had to go with the muzzloader stamp for crossbow , as a new licence requires a course, but laws dictate you must have hunted with said implement for 3 years before you can teach a course. So no seperate x box course was possible, putting under muzzleloader circumvented the nys bowhunting lobbiests.

It should of been made archery equipment from the get go,this just shows powers of lobbiests .. all for making it archery equipment and the couse teaches responsible shot placement, ranges,tracking and recovery of hemoraging game..

Every x bow hunter I know is a bow hunter. So including in entire season is not going to affect much here locally, having the bow course will eliminate the oh its. Just like a gun so I'll buy it crowd. Overall this is good commonsense legislation!!

[G-Man]

Yes, lets get rid of special seasons altogether, and give hunters complete choice of weapons with no restrictions. That seems to be what everyone wants anyway. The heck with bowhunters and muzzleloader hunters. If they want to use the special weapons, let them all use it during the regular "Anything Goes Season". Eliminate all special privileges and exclusionary seasons and turn the bow season and muzzleloader special seasons over to whoever wants to use it.

I remember the fight against compounds, and how they would ruin the sport and archery season, it passed but no releases were alllowed, then the fight for allowing releases as its a trigger and makes it like a gun!! And how it was going to ruin the sport and archery season.

I have no problem with full inclusion of x bow ,with this legislation a bow course will be required. It won't ruin the season or sport. As its a compound on the side.using a release.. yes I know you don't have to draw and hold it ,but what are you holding with 85% let off?? All the x bow hunter I know are bowhunters so I do not see a large increase in hunter numbers.

In my opinion the only people who have a gripe are the tradition hunters who lost everything they had. If you use a compound you exactly the same as a x bow hunter to them.

[Fredbear2]

Yes I agree on haveing to have taken a bow course to use a crossbow . No different on taking a gun course to be able to hunt small game and big game. .

[Doc]

I remember the fight against compounds, and how they would ruin the sport and archery season, it passed but no releases were alllowed, then the fight for allowing releases as its a trigger and makes it like a gun!! And how it was going to ruin the sport and archery season.

I have no problem with full inclusion of x bow ,with this legislation a bow course will be required. It won't ruin the season or sport. As its a compound on the side.using a release.. yes I know you don't have to draw and hold it ,but what are you holding with 85% let off?? All the x bow hunter I know are bowhunters so I do not see a large increase in hunter numbers.

In my opinion the only people who have a gripe are the tradition hunters who lost everything they had. If you use a compound you exactly the same as a x bow hunter to them.

I was there right in the middle of the compound fight, and I remember that the prime argument against compounds was that it was the first step toward inclusion of all kinds of things that were never intended to be called bowhunting. The argument was that it would serve as a precedent. I was all for compounds, and pretty much brushed that argument aside. Well imagine my surprise when here today, I see that they were absolutely correct. The compound set a precedent where just about anything can now be included in bow season. Lets look at all of the things that have been added since the compound and can anyone argue that the compound is now the primary precedent for the justification of the crossbow. I don't think so. Just take a look at the reply just before this one. So yet another precedent has been established for incorporating more and more weapons that simply are not bows. Now in the Northern Zone, bows and muzzleloaders are used side by side.....firearms inclusion in a bow season. The late bow season also now hosts muzzle loaders. Another precedent has been established and accepted. So now the DEC has pretty much accepted that whenever they get a bug up their butt, muzzleloader inclusion is on the table anywhere they decide to include it ..... bowhunters be damned. Why not ..... the precedent has been set and accepted. So, is it really all that far before rifles are accepted? Oh wait, that precedent has been set also.

 

Yes, I have to admit I was wrong. Those old-timers that argued against the compound were right. There is something to that precedent thing and there is proof now. We don't lose anything all at once. It is always through a bite her and a bite there. but the result comes out the same.

[stoneam2006]

I was there right in the middle of the compound fight, and I remember that the prime argument against compounds was that it was the first step toward inclusion of all kinds of things that were never intended to be called bowhunting. The argument was that it would serve as a precedent. I was all for compounds, and pretty much brushed that argument aside. Well imagine my surprise when here today, I see that they were absolutely correct. The compound set a precedent where just about anything can now be included in bow season. Lets look at all of the things that have been added since the compound and can anyone argue that the compound is now the primary precedent for the justification of the crossbow. I don't think so. Just take a look at the reply just before this one. So yet another precedent has been established for incorporating more and more weapons that simply are not bows. Now in the Northern Zone, bows and muzzleloaders are used side by side.....firearms inclusion in a bow season. The late bow season also now hosts muzzle loaders. Another precedent has been established and accepted. So now the DEC has pretty much accepted that whenever they get a bug up their butt, muzzleloader inclusion is on the table anywhere they decide to include it ..... bowhunters be damned. Why not ..... the precedent has been set and accepted. So, is it really all that far before rifles are accepted? Oh wait, that precedent has been set also.

Yes, I have to admit I was wrong. Those old-timers that argued against the compound were right. There is something to that precedent thing and there is proof now. We don't lose anything all at once. It is always through a bite her and a bite there. but the result comes out the same.

Anything that projects a arrow off a string without ability to repeat quickly...should be included

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[G-Man]

Doc , yes I agree and would like to see the seasons split 2 weeks bow, close for 2 weeks , then bow again, close for 5 days amd gun, run for 10 days and close for week reopen for week close 5 days and run muzzloader/ late bow for 10 days. Thus giving deer a chance to calm down aND rest.

Especially with the expected increase of harvest during bow due to inclusion of x bow... will never happen but ibwould.like to see it.

[stoneam2006]

Doc , yes I agree and would like to see the seasons split 2 weeks bow, close for 2 weeks , then bow again, close for 5 days amd gun, run for 10 days and close for week reopen for week close 5 days and run muzzloader/ late bow for 10 days. Thus giving deer a chance to calm down aND rest.

Especially with the expected increase of harvest during bow due to inclusion of x bow... will never happen but ibwould.like to see it.

I'd sign on that for full inclusion

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[RoadKill44]

Everyone is interested in their piece of the choice of weapon pie. Other contentions revolve around Buck or doe choices.

Just for conversation purposes, here are two related charts for the 2014 deer report. We're all still waiting on the 2015 report.

 

[shawnhu]

I was there right in the middle of the compound fight, and I remember that the prime argument against compounds was that it was the first step toward inclusion of all kinds of things that were never intended to be called bowhunting. The argument was that it would serve as a precedent. I was all for compounds, and pretty much brushed that argument aside. Well imagine my surprise when here today, I see that they were absolutely correct. The compound set a precedent where just about anything can now be included in bow season. Lets look at all of the things that have been added since the compound and can anyone argue that the compound is now the primary precedent for the justification of the crossbow. I don't think so. Just take a look at the reply just before this one. So yet another precedent has been established for incorporating more and more weapons that simply are not bows. Now in the Northern Zone, bows and muzzleloaders are used side by side.....firearms inclusion in a bow season. The late bow season also now hosts muzzle loaders. Another precedent has been established and accepted. So now the DEC has pretty much accepted that whenever they get a bug up their butt, muzzleloader inclusion is on the table anywhere they decide to include it ..... bowhunters be damned. Why not ..... the precedent has been set and accepted. So, is it really all that far before rifles are accepted? Oh wait, that precedent has been set also.

Yes, I have to admit I was wrong. Those old-timers that argued against the compound were right. There is something to that precedent thing and there is proof now. We don't lose anything all at once. It is always through a bite her and a bite there. but the result comes out the same.

For someone that "stole" the bow season from someone else, you sure get all bent out of shape for someone "stealing" it from you.

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[Doc]

For someone that "stole" the bow season from someone else, you sure get all bent out of shape for someone "stealing" it from you.

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I love the use of the term "stole", because it is the perfect word to describe what is being done to bow seasons. And yes, I can speak authoritatively on the subject because I have been on both sides of the fence. So now having seen the results, and having seen the old-timers proven right, I am perhaps more sensitive to this idea of hijacking seasons. But you are absolutely correct to use the term "steal", because that is exactly what is being done to bow seasons today, once again. Actually it is not "once again", it is simply a continuation of what was started back when compounds were allowed to set the precedents for what is going on today. Everybody casts a jealous eye on that season and wants to shove their way into it. And by golly that is exactly what is happening.

[BizCT]

Is NYB still an organization? After xbows get full inclusion, they will probably be gone for good.

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[Culvercreek hunt club]

I was there right in the middle of the compound fight, and I remember that the prime argument against compounds was that it was the first step toward inclusion of all kinds of things that were never intended to be called bowhunting. The argument was that it would serve as a precedent. I was all for compounds, and pretty much brushed that argument aside. Well imagine my surprise when here today, I see that they were absolutely correct. The compound set a precedent where just about anything can now be included in bow season. Lets look at all of the things that have been added since the compound and can anyone argue that the compound is now the primary precedent for the justification of the crossbow. I don't think so. Just take a look at the reply just before this one. So yet another precedent has been established for incorporating more and more weapons that simply are not bows. Now in the Northern Zone, bows and muzzleloaders are used side by side.....firearms inclusion in a bow season. The late bow season also now hosts muzzle loaders. Another precedent has been established and accepted. So now the DEC has pretty much accepted that whenever they get a bug up their butt, muzzleloader inclusion is on the table anywhere they decide to include it ..... bowhunters be damned. Why not ..... the precedent has been set and accepted. So, is it really all that far before rifles are accepted? Oh wait, that precedent has been set also.

 

Yes, I have to admit I was wrong. Those old-timers that argued against the compound were right. There is something to that precedent thing and there is proof now. We don't lose anything all at once. It is always through a bite her and a bite there. but the result comes out the same.

I am only 50 Doc, so i am sure you have a longer track record on this than me, but when was Muzzleloader added into the NZ early bow season and when did it happen in the SZ late season? 

Edited March 28, 2016 by Culvercreek hunt club

[grampy]

So, was our way of life stolen when the automobile replaced the horse and buggy? Or when airplanes made it possible to cross the oceans in a matter of hours? Or when medical advances cured polio? Would it have been better if we had just stayed where we were? Of course not. Things change and advance. We either change with the times or get left behind.

[BellR]

Yes, I have to admit I was wrong. Those old-timers that argued against the compound were right.

 

So do you think that they should go back to longbow/recurve only?