I said this last year....

[Doc]

1 hour ago, stubby68 said:

                   Middle  of next month or even the first week check on this site and any other site and on any hunting group page on face book and count all the posts about bucks lost or still being looked for. Then after gun season opens up go back to those same groups and count how many posts you find of same thing. You will find very few where a gun was used. Even guys who hunt both gun and bow will be postings pics of bucks they killed with a gun. Yet the same guy will have an earlier post asking for help with finding a deer they hit with an arrow and can not find. With all the wounded with a bow threads it kind of makes one wonder how many more have been wounded any just kept secret. You know Noone can hear the shot so it never happened.

       How many of those 6 wounded deer were wounded with a gun and how many were wounded with a bow just a day or 2 earlier. I have found lots of dead deer over the years during the first week of gun season. When season is less then 3 days old and a deer is already rotten so bad you smell it before you get 40 yards from it you can bet it is from bow season. Heck I have found dead deer with arrow still in them at all times of gun season. I've even seen deer going through the woods with an arrow sticking out of there rear end. How many times have you seen pics of deer with part of an a row broken off in them.  I'm not saying I've never found dead deer from gun shots but they can be counted on one hand. Deer with bullet holes in them? Yep seen that too but again far fewer then arrow wounds.

            Do deer get wounded and lost during gun season? Yep sure do but far fewer then with a bow. Odds of dropping a deer where it stands are far greater with a gun and all the help threads prove it.

             If more deer are wounded and lost with a gun then a bow then why would a thread like this one even need to be started for bow season? Keep quiet the public can't know about this. 

Ha-ha-ha ..... is that the way you would conduct a scientific poll? ...... Using social media? Look, I know that you feel a need to bad-mouth bow hunting in your anti-bowhunting campaign, but at least try to do it in an actually credible fashion. To be honest, I have found a lot more dead deer that came from gun season. Why? ..... probably because there are more gun hunters out there. Nothing scientific or credible about that statement, but simply a first hand observation.

[wolc123]

    In 35 seasons my total kills is also around 100.  I wounded one (a very wide 4-point) on our farm with a shotgun slug that was killed by a friend a couple weeks later.  The butcher told him that the meat was no good due to gang-green and he was issued another buck-tag by the DEC.  I actually did eat the liver from that deer (before I learned that it had gang-green) and he got to keep the rack.   My shot was too far back, at the running broadside deer, and I hit him too far back, drilling the 12 ga sabot thru the hams without hitting the femoral or any bone.   That was the last time I shot at a  running deer.  Having learned my lesson, I will never do it again, unless I believe that I hit it with a prior shot.

    I wounded a basket racked buck with my ML 13 seasons ago.   That was the last deer that I wounded and did not recover.  My mistake there was shooting beyond the effective range of my scoped 50 cal, with 100 grains of pyrodex.  The buck was quartering away at 175 yards, I had a good rest and had practiced at 200 yards, where the gun consistently held groups under 3" diameter.   More than likely my shot struck within an inch of my point of aim, but the buck made it about 50 yards beyond my widest circle after I lost his trail (about 400 yards past where he stood at the shot).   Fresh snow contributed towards me taking that shot, but I never found even a drop of blood the whole way.  The buck had shown no reaction of a hit, and that, and the lack of blood convinced me that it had been a clean miss.  

   I learned that it was not a clean miss when I saw a neighbor who had been hunting that day, a few days later.  He told me that he saw the doe that I had missed that day run by under his stand.  My shot was not at the doe, but it was at the buck that had pursued her out of the corn plot below my stand.  He said he never saw a buck.  We found that buck, half eaten by coyotes, with the help of the crows a few days later.  I will never take a shot at over 150 yard range with that ML again (I use a laser rangefinder now to help make sure) unless the deer is broadside.

In my early years of bow-hunting, I wounded (4) deer, of which (3) were struck in the shoulder blade, with no penetration, and one too far back.   The common thing on all of those is that "string jump" contributed to the bad hits.  All of the deer were alert (3) were bucks that I had alerted by rattling or grunting within range, and (2) were alerted when they caught a glimpse of my draw.  These days, I have addressed those issues by only using calls when I have a firearm (no problem with string jump when the projectile is faster than the speed of sound).  I wait for crossbow season to open now during archery, which eliminates the need to draw with a deer in close.  

Of the (4) deer that I wounded with arrows, only the one that was hit too far back surely died from his wound.  One of the shoulder blade hit bucks was killed by a friend a few weeks later, during gun season, and the wound was completely healed, with just a big scar over the shoulder.

My experience has been that while more deer are wounded with arrows, many of those make full recoveries.  That can not be said about gun-shot wounds, which are messier, and far more likely to be fatal.   We can all learn lessons from wounded deer, and it would be nice if we could use an internet forum like this to learn of some of the mistakes that others have made.  It is too bad that most folks lack the guts to post their mistakes.  Apparently, they are scared of the anti-hunters.   My fear is limited to one thing - see who can guess what that is so I don't have to piss some of the haters off and add it to yet another post. 

 

[Buckmaster7600]

                   Middle  of next month or even the first week check on this site and any other site and on any hunting group page on face book and count all the posts about bucks lost or still being looked for. Then after gun season opens up go back to those same groups and count how many posts you find of same thing. You will find very few where a gun was used. Even guys who hunt both gun and bow will be postings pics of bucks they killed with a gun. Yet the same guy will have an earlier post asking for help with finding a deer they hit with an arrow and can not find. With all the wounded with a bow threads it kind of makes one wonder how many more have been wounded any just kept secret. You know Noone can hear the shot so it never happened.

       How many of those 6 wounded deer were wounded with a gun and how many were wounded with a bow just a day or 2 earlier. I have found lots of dead deer over the years during the first week of gun season. When season is less then 3 days old and a deer is already rotten so bad you smell it before you get 40 yards from it you can bet it is from bow season. Heck I have found dead deer with arrow still in them at all times of gun season. I've even seen deer going through the woods with an arrow sticking out of there rear end. How many times have you seen pics of deer with part of an a row broken off in them.  I'm not saying I've never found dead deer from gun shots but they can be counted on one hand. Deer with bullet holes in them? Yep seen that too but again far fewer then arrow wounds.

            Do deer get wounded and lost during gun season? Yep sure do but far fewer then with a bow. Odds of dropping a deer where it stands are far greater with a gun and all the help threads prove it.

             If more deer are wounded and lost with a gun then a bow then why would a thread like this one even need to be started for bow season? Keep quiet the public can't know about this. 

Busy night at work so I figured I would take a poll of my coworkers that hunt in an effort to back your hypothesis.

I work in a town that is on the boarder of southern and northern zone at the foothills of the Adirondacks so it is a pretty good variety of hunters.

Of the hunters I asked 18 were willing to answer me on how many deer they have wounded in their lives and how many per implement "gun/bow."

3 said 0- wounded deer

5 said 1- 3 with a bow and 2 with a gun

4 said 2- 4 with each

1 said 3- 3 with gun

2 said 4- 3 with bow 5 with gun

1 said 5- all with gun doesn't bow hunt

1 said 6- 1 with bow 5 with gun

1 said unknown- doesn't get out of truck unless it drops in the field

35 wounded deer

11 bow

24gun

That's 2-1 gun over bow from my small poll.

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[Doc]

I think that it stands to reason that more deer are wounded from a weapon that is more challenging to shoot. Frankly the whole purpose of the implementation of bow seasons is to provide a hunt using a more challenging weapon.....right? A weapon that is more challenging is likely to have more mis-cues than the latest and greatest techno whiz firearm. Heck, I would expect that flintlocks would produce more wounding than modern rifles. Even the beloved crossbow will likely have more wounding losses than  scoped rifles.

But here is the catch. The total numbers may not match what you all think is logical because there are fewer people afield with the more primitive weapons, so while the rate may be up on bows and such, the total numbers likely are not. So if you find a dead deer after the season, it is more likely to be a gun casualty than a bow kill.

Edited September 16, 2017 by Doc

[growalot]

So, I would hope the point of this post is clearly seen. 2 weeks before season has even started and the angst over wounded deer is clearly shown by just the mentioning of it. Which was why I said  "It can wear on ALL hunters". 

My hope is for all your shots from any of your weapons, result in perfect kills. Though rarely do we see perfection  in most aspects of life. We can only work and strive to come as close as possible. 

[stubby68]

5 hours ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

I say we start a pole, in 18 years of deer hunting I am up around 100 deer killed and have wounded 3 deer 2 with gun and 1 with bow.

I have only found 3 dead deer in the woods 1 during bow season and had a bullet hole in his neck the other 2 were during guns season and freshly killed.

So far your statistics and my statistics oppose each other.

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5 hours ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

I say we start a pole, in 18 years of deer hunting I am up around 100 deer killed and have wounded 3 deer 2 with gun and 1 with bow.

I have only found 3 dead deer in the woods 1 during bow season and had a bullet hole in his neck the other 2 were during guns season and freshly killed.

So far your statistics and my statistics oppose each other.

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You can claim whatever you want and so can I. Doesn't make it true. Only thing is that the amount of threads and posts of wounded lost deer from bow hunting support my numbers not yours. Let's just wait for season to open and count the number of deer lost to bow hunters  by reading there own words.  Wait we won't get a chance to because they all have been told to keep the truth about bow hunting a secret.

[Buckmaster7600]

You can claim whatever you want and so can I. Doesn't make it true. Only thing is that the amount of threads and posts of wounded lost deer from bow hunting support my numbers not yours. Let's just wait for season to open and count the number of deer lost to bow hunters  by reading there own words.  Wait we won't get a chance to because they all have been told to keep the truth about bow hunting a secret.

Keeping your head in the sand and ignoring information that goes against your ideas, are you a politician by chance?

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[sodfather]

I've seen way way more deer injured with a gun than a bow. My personal opinion is the difference between a gun hunter and a bow hunter is you see or hear way more clear misses with a bow than a gun. A gun is 5 guys on a deer drive and deer running with a guy shooting a deer on a full sprint. I'd like to think that the guys who bow hunt on here put in hrs upon hrs of practice just look at the other threads like the shot that counts or first shot daily pics. We practice our craft if we miss or wound I don't think it's on purpose although hard to believe a miss is possible after the groupings I'm seeing it it happens. I also see more people shooting a deer with the gun and mistakenly think oh I don't want to waste my tag and this small buck cause he looked bigger 109 yards away . That never flys for a bow hunter cause we're up closer. It's part of the sport unfortunate things happen. 

[stubby68]

1 hour ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

Busy night at work so I figured I would take a poll of my coworkers that hunt in an effort to back your hypothesis.

I work in a town that is on the boarder of southern and northern zone at the foothills of the Adirondacks so it is a pretty good variety of hunters.

Of the hunters I asked 18 were willing to answer me on how many deer they have wounded in their lives and how many per implement "gun/bow."

3 said 0- wounded deer

5 said 1- 3 with a bow and 2 with a gun

4 said 2- 2 with each

1 said 3- 3 with gun

2 said 4- 3 with bow 5 with gun

1 said 5- all with gun doesn't bow hunt

1 said 6- 1 with bow 5 with gun

1 said unknown- doesn't get out of truck unless it drops in the field

31 wounded deer
9 bow
22 gun

That's 2-1 gun over bow from my small poll.



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Your list says 2 guys said they wounded 4 deer . And next to it you wrote 3 with bow and 5 with gun. If you are going to lie about numbers hide it a little better. 

[Buckmaster7600]

Your list says 2 guys said they wounded 4 deer . And next to it you wrote 3 with bow and 5 with gun. If you are going to lie about numbers hide it a little better. 

2x4=8
3+5=8

Good try idiot!


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[stubby68]

8 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

Keeping your head in the sand and ignoring information that goes against your ideas, are you a politician by chance?

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I am ignoring no information. The facts are that just the number of threads on this site alone of deer wounded and lost by bow hunters supports my side.

[growalot]

I take it all back Stubby...YOU were clearly on my mind when writing this post.  It's like your trying to own it,almost as you wearing a sign " My handle is Stubby,I'm the point of this thread"...Lol

[stubborn1VT]

My guess is that bow hunters feel worse about it, and take to social media. The gun hunters just don't admit it.  No proof, just my experience.  More gun hunters and more bullets fired = more wounded deer.  I very well could be wrong, but it makes sense to me.

[chrisw]

It's common sense, how many Deer are taken on an average year by archery gear? Roughly 36,000. How many by other means? Roughly 200,000. Now noone is going to tell me that with an extra 170,000 more deer taken during a firearms season that the unrecovered rate is lower than bow. There is no way to put a number on it, but when that many more deer are being killed you're going to have more losses.

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[BowmanMike]

28 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

Keeping your head in the sand and ignoring information that goes against your ideas, are you a politician by chance?

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Or a president even?

[BowmanMike]

10 minutes ago, chrisw said:

It's common sense, how many Deer are taken on an average year by archery gear? Roughly 36,000. How many by other means? Roughly 200,000. Now noone is going to tell me that with an extra 170,000 more deer taken during a firearms season that the unrecovered rate is lower than bow. There is no way to put a number on it, but when that many more deer are being killed you're going to have more losses.

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Chrisw hit the nail on the head,it is a numbers thing.

[growalot]

The thing is...those numbers are not posted and talked about. Rarely do you see in the gun hunting thread people willing to say...I blew the  leg off a deer last night....I tracked it for so many yards then no blood. What you do see is more I took a shot and it didn't "look" hit and ran away. I've put down several " Didn't look hit deer" over the years.  Seen many with blown off legs.  This is because Not being up close,a good many won't follow up as a bow hunter does...Only seen one with an arrow in it and found 3 dead on the property during archery. 

[growalot]

 I take that back...one dead was not bow..gun opener..found him in one of my streams weeks later, not 70 yrds from the  blind on neighbors foggy morning, a buck I had passed on, 6 pt 5 mins before he was shot. Neighbors brother.." Didnt look hit" neighbor was straight up about it...his brother never left the blind to check, not happy about it at all.

[ncountry]

 

The reason there are more threads of wounded deer by bows is that they know they wounded the deer.. It is a close range weapon , you see the arrow hit the deer.. If you cannot find it you lost it.. I believe a large percentage of firearm wounded animals are lost because the hunter isn't even aware  that he hit it. 

[OtiscoPaul]

I think especially in archery the hunter is constantly trying to relive the moment in order to glean that one clue that's going to result in a recovery.

I feel like people are posting thier recovery problems in order to "put it down in writing" so they can even review the story themselves in a more removed way.

I don't think anyone is trying to brag about unrecovered animals or even fishing for sympathy.  I do think it is wise to wait to post in celebration until after recovery.  

That said it's probably also wise to post immediately after a marginal shot and wait in your stand for good tracking/backout advice that could really help in recovery.

Tracking is an essential component of archery hunting nearly every harvest.

Edited September 16, 2017 by OtiscoPaul

[BigVal]

Contrary to common thought the majority of gun hunters aren't dead balls at 250 yards all the time. Alot aren't at 60 yards when a deer is moving through and they rush a shot, this results in spraying and praying alot of the time. I've done it in my first season I believe alot have. It's hard to do so with a bow and arrow I think. Sure some guys never make poor decisions but it does happen. 

With that said if anyone in the Erie, catt, Niagara counties want a set of eyes and help tracking, bow or gun feel free to ask. 

Edited September 16, 2017 by BigVal

[adkhunter71]

5 hours ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

Busy night at work so I figured I would take a poll of my coworkers that hunt in an effort to back your hypothesis.

I work in a town that is on the boarder of southern and northern zone at the foothills of the Adirondacks so it is a pretty good variety of hunters.

Of the hunters I asked 18 were willing to answer me on how many deer they have wounded in their lives and how many per implement "gun/bow."

3 said 0- wounded deer

5 said 1- 3 with a bow and 2 with a gun

4 said 2- 4 with each

1 said 3- 3 with gun

2 said 4- 3 with bow 5 with gun

1 said 5- all with gun doesn't bow hunt

1 said 6- 1 with bow 5 with gun

1 said unknown- doesn't get out of truck unless it drops in the field

35 wounded deer

11 bow

24gun

That's 2-1 gun over bow from my small poll.

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This one had me laughing...either that person is handicapped, a scumbag, a handicapped scumbag, or has a great sense of humor....I am hoping it's the latter....

[Buckmaster7600]

This one had me laughing...either that person is handicapped, a scumbag, a handicapped scumbag, or has a great sense of humor....I am hoping it's the latter....

Unfortunately not handicap just a scumbag, but an honest scumbag I have to give him that.


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[moog5050]

Wait, did Stubby just jump on a thread in the bowhunting forum (when he doesn't bow hunt) to cricize bowhunters without any real basis.  Lol.  Nothing new and Stubby I can guarantee you way more gun hunters wound deer.  The numbers simply won't lie.  Gun hunters. like you far outnumber the bowhunters.  But you and I both know that that means little to you.  You just like to get under people's skin.  Probably a napoleonic complex thing or perhaps you simply criticize trophy hunters and bowhunters because you have not had much success with either.  Hmmmmm.  Sad really.  

Edited September 16, 2017 by moog5050

[Hock3y24]

I made some Stupid shots at deer when i was younger, not once did i ever give up on finding them ( and didn't find a few), but we all do know that guy that gives up after 20 minutes of looking.