Interesting what DEC says about bucks

[chas0218]

I just stumbled across a section on the DEC website about buck hunting where they had a paragraph on aging deer. It was pretty informative except the part that states people have to be realistic about the deer in NY. I'm sorry but the deer in NY are just like deer in the the big buck states. All the big buck states have scrub bucks no different than NY it's all about how it's managed I feel like this is a big cop out saying this. The big buck states didn't just happen overnight, they needed to be managed properly and for the hunter not other interest groups. I guess they are in the "Damned if you do Damned if you don't" boat.

Here is the link: http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/27663.html

[growalot]

I'll get my aging info else where....they really do little on ageing by size and they make it sound like 2 1/2 is in the "older Deer" class

Good info on tooth aging, took up most of the page...problem is...the deer's dead before you can tooth age it....hhmmmm

[Larry]

Only one way to tell how old a deer is and that’s look at the teeth. Anything else is a wag. I don’t even look at antlers anymore when you have killed enough “big bucks” anther aren’t that big of a deal. I look for body size if a buck looks like it’s over 200lb I’m going to try to shoot it if it looks smaller then it walks. Chances are if it’s over 200lb it will have a decent rack. But then a gained its just a wag.

[nyantler]

The issue is more about shooting mature bucks and there are ways to tell the difference. It's actually quite easy to age deer accurately to 3.5 years old after that is where it gets tricky... unless you have trail cam evidence from past years.

[Buckmaster7600]

Only one way to tell how old a deer is and that’s look at the teeth. Anything else is a wag. I don’t even look at antlers anymore when you have killed enough “big bucks” anther aren’t that big of a deal. I look for body size if a buck looks like it’s over 200lb I’m going to try to shoot it if it looks smaller then it walks. Chances are if it’s over 200lb it will have a decent rack. But then a gained its just a wag.

Bingo! The 200lb club is what's important to me! If I shoota 200lb 2yr old I'm doing the woods a favor because he clearly had eating issues.

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[dbHunterNY]

200+lb dressed weight bucks aren't in every wood lot. Takes some age. DEC has been given a lot of hell in recent years for not putting more education out there, especially with this whole promoting voluntary passing of young bucks. Stats per age class can vary a little depending on source but they seem to all be more than close enough for practical use.

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[dbHunterNY]

Only one way to tell how old a deer is and that’s look at the teeth. Anything else is a wag. I don’t even look at antlers anymore when you have killed enough “big bucks” anther aren’t that big of a deal. I look for body size if a buck looks like it’s over 200lb I’m going to try to shoot it if it looks smaller then it walks. Chances are if it’s over 200lb it will have a decent rack. But then a gained its just a wag.

I know of many people that see an old mature doe seemingly every year that they say would dress 200 lbs. Hundreds of recorded doe later I'm hard pressed to find one break past the 150s. I think their judgement and eyesight is a wag. Nothing having to do with you. I kind of agree. I think without harvest data to back it up aging by any means is just a wag.

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[wfmiller]

6 hours ago, dbHunterNY said:

I know of many people that see an old mature doe seemingly every year that they say would dress 200 lbs. Hundreds of recorded doe later I'm hard pressed to find one break past the 150s. I think their judgement and eyesight is a wag. Nothing having to do with you. I kind of agree. I think without harvest data to back it up aging by any means is just a wag.

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I don't see does that big every year, but I shot one about 10 years ago that dressed out at 172 pounds and one 3 years ago that dressed out at 153 pounds, and I saw another one that was easy over 200 pounds a few years ago. I wish I had a picture of the bigger one, she was huge!

[BowmanMike]

I saw a giant doe a few years ago. She walked by and then i saw two deer behind her and I was looking for a buck The followers looked liked babies,i figured her kids from the same year. Nope,one was a decent six point,but he looked small next to her..

[growalot]

Never got one that big but both myself and SIL took two that were 150, and that was down in Alfred were they don't normally get that big. Here in corn and soybean country,an area where a whole lot of people plot,natural browse and water is abundant and they have little reason for any exertion to find food...coupled with trail cam pics..Then add a few mild winters. I can see where there could easily be 200 # doe,guys are taking buck well over 200#'s

[mowin]

Good luck finding a 200# buck in my area.  If that's the size your looking for, your going to be eating alot of tag sandwiches. 

 

Also, I'm not so confident people's estimated deer wts are accurate.

We weight every deer we get.  It comical to see the reactions some seasoned hunters have when they bring there 200#+ deer to our shop when it was lucky to break 150#. 

 

It's usually the last time they want to weight there deer. But brag about there 200# buck every yr. 

Edited September 21, 2017 by mowin

[moog5050]

22 minutes ago, mowin said:

Good luck finding a 200# buck in my area.  If that's the size your looking for, your going to be eating alot of tag sandwiches. 

 

Also, I'm not so confident people's estimated deer wts are accurate.

We weight every deer we get.  It comical to see the reactions some seasoned hunters have when they bring there 200#+ deer to our shop when it was lucky to break 150#. 

 

It's usually the last time they want to weight there deer. But brag about there 200# buck every yr. 

My bow scale goes on the hoist come oct 1.  We do have the occasional buck that exceeds 200.  

[Iluvracks1359]

On ‎9‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 1:51 PM, chas0218 said:

I just stumbled across a section on the DEC website about buck hunting where they had a paragraph on aging deer. It was pretty informative except the part that states people have to be realistic about the deer in NY. I'm sorry but the deer in NY are just like deer in the the big buck states. All the big buck states have scrub bucks no different than NY it's all about how it's managed I feel like this is a big cop out saying this. The big buck states didn't just happen overnight, they needed to be managed properly and for the hunter not other interest groups. I guess they are in the "Damned if you do Damned if you don't" boat.

Here is the link: http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/27663.html

I disagree with you. It is not a cop out by saying this. The reason the "big buck states" are that is because number of people per square foot of wooded area. When it comes down to it, New York just doesn't have enough land available, compared to the amount of people that live in this state. You may argue and say well what about the Adirondacks? Ok , have you ever hunted the Adirondacks... or the catskills even? the landscape makes it incredibly hard to hunt, sure there are some monsters living in those areas, but they are rarely bagged. In the plains states there is MUCH more uninhabited land and it is all FLAT, so you are much more likely to see the larger deer. I 100% agree that it is unrealistic to ever see bucks in NY like in Illinois or ohio or iowa, BUT you are right, by managing we can swing the scale in the other direction and start seeing much better bucks.

[Iluvracks1359]

3 hours ago, wfmiller said:

I don't see does that big every year, but I shot one about 10 years ago that dressed out at 172 pounds and one 3 years ago that dressed out at 153 pounds, and I saw another one that was easy over 200 pounds a few years ago. I wish I had a picture of the bigger one, she was huge!

I did shoot a 180 lb doe, it was actually the first "big deer" I ever shot, she was huge!

[BigVal]

Dude Western NY has tons of area as does most of NY other than downstate. 

[growalot]

Quote

My bow scale goes on the hoist come oct 1.  We do have the occasional buck that exceeds 200.  

Funny.....This and correct me but aren't you also in an "over runned ' deer area as well? I know they consider 8N to be.

[moog5050]

22 minutes ago, growalot said:

Funny.....This and correct me but aren't you also in an "over runned ' deer area as well? I know they consider 8N to be.

Not sure what over run is, but yes we have good density in this area.  The one property with the highest density (unusual not to see deer in a sit) does not always have the biggest deer, but last year we killed two big bodied deer there including a 167lb (dressed) doe.  The property surrounded by miles of ag seems to have the biggest bodied deer usually.  The density is still good, but not as dense as the other parcel.

Edited September 21, 2017 by moog5050

[Buckmaster7600]

I disagree with you. It is not a cop out by saying this. The reason the "big buck states" are that is because number of people per square foot of wooded area. When it comes down to it, New York just doesn't have enough land available, compared to the amount of people that live in this state. You may argue and say well what about the Adirondacks? Ok , have you ever hunted the Adirondacks... or the catskills even? the landscape makes it incredibly hard to hunt, sure there are some monsters living in those areas, but they are rarely bagged. In the plains states there is MUCH more uninhabited land and it is all FLAT, so you are much more likely to see the larger deer. I 100% agree that it is unrealistic to ever see bucks in NY like in Illinois or ohio or iowa, BUT you are right, by managing we can swing the scale in the other direction and start seeing much better bucks.

I don't feel that land has much to do with it. Our seasons are too long in all but the Adirondacks and we get too many buck tags. Go to 1 buck and a 1 week gun season for 5 years and see how big the Bucks start getting.

Problem is many hunters want to have their cake and be able to eat it. You can't have 4-8 weeks of gun season and be allowed to kill 2 bucks and want to have more mature bucks.

That being said I hope nothing changes in NY, I love hunting the Adirondacks and haven't had much problem killing mature bucks up there.


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[Iluvracks1359]

Val, do you understand that the "tons of area" in western ny still does not compare to the type of land out in the Midwest, and the number of hunters. Western NY is OVERRUN by hunters because yes, there are a lot of deer out there, and most people from other under populated deer areas flock to the west to hunt there, I know I do.

[BigVal]

The land is not the issue though. I've seen several high inch bucks right in my neighborhood that anybody would be happy to shoot. I don't live on a huge tract of farmland or anything like that. 

[Buckmaster7600]

Val, do you understand that the "tons of area" in western ny still does not compare to the type of land out in the Midwest, and the number of hunters. Western NY is OVERRUN by hunters because yes, there are a lot of deer out there, and most people from other under populated deer areas flock to the west to hunt there, I know I do.

Never hunted western NY but have hunted a few Midwest states and hunter density out there is the reason I won't go back during s firearms season. Way too many people hunting out there for my liking!


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[NFA-ADK]

The other issue is not all hunters are after big bucks.  Many just want some venison for the table and any deer will do so the first yearling 4 pt that walks in gets shot, hard to get larger buck in your area when most of the hunters shoot anything in range.  While many of the trophy hunters keep passing these deer the other hunters are shooting them 5 minutes later.  The past 2 years one of the hunters with me shoot 2 bucks in the 2.5 125 inch class then realized he could have shot 2 others in the 135-145 class range of 3 year old deer.  

Not easy to pass when you get a group of 7 bucks parading by your stand but none where over 2.  I have only seen 2 deer in the age class I want and they where wise enough to evade me so far.  Hope this is the year I can get a 3+ year old to pass in range!

[kpkot]

Thought I would add a fat doe, since were on the subject. She almost looks preggo but this was recent.

[Core]

The two bucks I've gotten were, I believe, 2.5 years old. But I'll say the same I always do: I hunt public land and shot opportunities at the spot I got of any kind are few and far between. I can go many times without even seeing a single deer, so I don't have the luxury to pick and choose.

Although mine were bucks I'm perfectly content with a doe. I am in this for the primal aspect and the food.

Edited September 21, 2017 by Core

[nyantler]

15 hours ago, dbHunterNY said:

I know of many people that see an old mature doe seemingly every year that they say would dress 200 lbs. Hundreds of recorded doe later I'm hard pressed to find one break past the 150s. I think their judgement and eyesight is a wag. Nothing having to do with you. I kind of agree. I think without harvest data to back it up aging by any means is just a wag.

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I agree... I have tracked and killed many a big buck in the last 40 years and have never seen a mature doe bigger than a any buck I have hunted ... and I have never killed a 200 lb. buck... 180-190 yes, but never 200. A 200 lb. doe would be a rare and awesome sight.