Carrying Crossbow/compound bow simultaneously

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Grow, I get it. Like I said it would be legal to go out with the crossbow and if someone wanted to be a poacher they could just shoot the deer and go get their vertical bow. You'd have to be a nut to carry both...lol. JK

Edited October 24, 2017 by Culvercreek hunt club

[growalot]

PS here is what my line of think was and is

 I am in possession of two legal tags during two legal seasons. I want to make the most of my time in the blind,obviously no way could I fit me and both weapons in a cheap ladder stand ,I don't use bow holders. Turkey are a small target with a smaller kill zone so I wanted to use my best weapon for the turkey and for me that would be either a shot gun BTW shot GUNS legal in the fall bow hunting season woods for turkey, or a xbow...I will not use a gun in the woods during bow season...that's why I wait to squirrel hunt.

[WNYBuckHunter]

We get your thought process on it, its just not legal. The only way to legally hunt deer and turkey at the same time currently, and not run into any issue, is to do so with a vertical bow. It is what it is.

[Gencountyzeek]

Ive been following along. I have to say, this is no differant than myself carrying a .22 pistol or rifle with me to my stand along with my bow. I could say its for squirels, but that doesnt matter you have to pick 1 or the other. It is illegal to posses a weapon that is illegal to take deer with while bow hunting. Right now it is illegal to take a deer with a crossbow. Not sure how this has made it to 6 pages...

[jjb4900]

2 minutes ago, Gencountyzeek said:

Ive been following along. I have to say, this is no differant than myself carrying a .22 pistol or rifle with me to my stand along with my bow. I could say its for squirels, but that doesnt matter you have to pick 1 or the other. It is illegal to posses a weapon that is illegal to take deer with while bow hunting. Right now it is illegal to take a deer with a crossbow. Not sure how this has made it to 6 pages...

yes, it really is that simple.

[ApexerER]

This seems to be a debate on what we think should be illegal and what is illegal.  Some of the posters/LEO's etc think it should be illegal to carry a bow and a crossbow during the bow only season. They probably intended for it to be illegal just like carrying a shotgun and a bow. From some oversight it was never put in the Regs which would make what Grow is doing legal by every definition. Now a LEO could ticket her and it would be up to her to prove to the court that what she is doing is legal. Which if there isn't a regulation on it doesn't seem to me like it would be that difficult. I think Grow found an unintended loophole. That loophole gives her the ability to do what she is doing. I have thought about bringing both my bow and crossbow to my treestand during crossbow season. The only reason I would do this was so that if I was to miss with my crossbow and for whatever reason the deer was not startled it would be much easier to grab my bow than to try and hook up a pull rope, cock my crossbow and add a bolt...all without being scene.

[growalot]

17 hours ago, growalot said:

As I said on the phone, it is not a simply question and it involves looking a number of different laws and regulations

Quote

Grow, what you're failing to see is they said you can take two different implements into the woods as long as both implements are legal to take both species with. Now let's look at this... You can take a deer and a turkey with your compound LEGALLY, you can take a turkey with your Crossbow legally but not a deer, therefore one of the weapons you are in possession of is not legal for both deer and turkey therefore making it illegal to have in your situation.
 

No what you are not getting is this:

Quote

Now here is where the conversation went on a search : I will need written law stating that...hesitation...It is no where in the book. " Well not all the regulations are in the book it must be in the written laws and I will need to search".

They then wrote back:

Quote

As I said on the phone, it is not a simply question and it involves looking a number of different laws and regulations

The DEC is having a time figuring out where to find written legalities about it...So no matter what the out come This has shown that written rules actually do count and "because so and so says" ,a least shouldn't.  They need to get their act together and start writing clear and concise regulations. Now because I do read a lot I can tell you that even though some other states have lengthy rule books they are rather detailed in what they do and don't expect and it's out there for the hunters to read...DEC having to search for their own regulations and expecting the general hunting population to stay legal ..come on!  DEC official saying not all regulations are inthe regulation book? I'm sorry this happens to be an important one...lol

[chrisw]

The DEC is having a time figuring out where to find written legalities about it...So no matter what the out come This has shown that written rules actually do count and "because so and so says" ,a least shouldn't.  They need to get their act together and start writing clear and concise regulations. Now because I do read a lot I can tell you that even though some other states have lengthy rule books they are rather detailed in what they do and don't expect and it's out there for the hunters to read...DEC having to search for their own regulations and expecting the general hunting population to stay legal ..come on!  DEC official saying not all regulations are inthe regulation book? I'm sorry this happens to be an important one...lol

So, even after approximately 4-5 DEC officials have all given the same answer, and we pretty much all agree now on this thread that it would be illegal in your situation, Grow still cannot admit maybe she was in the wrong.
The DEC does not have to have one law that states: You can't carry your crossbow afield while deer hunting before the crossbow deer season is open. This could easily be gathered through regulations that currently exist. (You cannot be in possession of a weapon while actively pursuing a game animal that said game animal cannot legally be taken with.) You show me laws that so blatantly point out every instance they could be distorted by people's own interpretation. They handed you your answer in the text you posted yet you refuse to acknowledge it because it's not what you want to hear. Active DEC and LEO have handed you their answers, you refuse to acknowledge any validity to anyone but yourself.



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[growalot]

39 minutes ago, chrisw said:

Grow, what you're failing to see is they said you can take two different implements into the woods as long as both implements are legal to take both species with. Now let's look at this... You can take a deer and a turkey with your compound LEGALLY, you can take a turkey with your Crossbow legally but not a deer, therefore one of the weapons you are in possession of is not legal for both deer and turkey therefore making it illegal to have in your situation.

BTW I don't know why it took me so long to point this out again ...but let me address this directly and in detail:

I can hunt turkey with a compound bow and I can hunt deer with a compoud bow...you can not question that. I can NOT hunt deer with my 20ga modified choked shot gun  

I can hunt turkey with my 20 ga modified choke shot gun during fall season that overlaps bow season.

 So I am allowed to carry BOTH weapns into the field...Wonder why I said specifically modified choke? Because as easilly as I could kill a deer with a cross bow..I could slip in a slug and kill a deer...IF I were going to do some thing illegal ...Yet they are allowed to be carried at the same time..

[Culvercreek hunt club]

28 minutes ago, Gencountyzeek said:

Ive been following along. I have to say, this is no differant than myself carrying a .22 pistol or rifle with me to my stand along with my bow. I could say its for squirels, but that doesnt matter you have to pick 1 or the other. It is illegal to posses a weapon (Firearm) that is illegal to take deer with while bow hunting. Right now it is illegal to take a deer with a crossbow. Not sure how this has made it to 6 pages...

that is the issue. 

[Five Seasons]

15 hours ago, growalot said:

  did an extensive search and now as you may have read Albany is searching as well,how can tickets be issued when the alleged rule is buried. 

you can be ticketed for just about anything. it's weather you're found guilty where the issue lies. Like a few have mentioned, is it worth it?

14 hours ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

It does. I did not go looking for the other thread until almost through this. But. My point was, absent a dead deer or an officer witnessing a shot at a deer, someone please tell me the section of environment law that was broken. Before anymore folks chime in about is being in ML season so it is a firearm. Look at the definitions of a firearm for environment law and tell me if you honestly think it matches. I am not asking a lot. Just a section for the violation

With your logic though an officer could hear a gunshot after dark and wait for the hunter to leave the woods. He finds me dragging a buck and tickets me for shooting after legal light. I state that it wasn't me, but that I killed that buck an hour ago and it must have been another hunter who shot. What proof does he have? There are no surveillance cams in the woods that are going to prove or disprove a lot of the regs that are in the books. 

think about how difficult it is to catch a hunter red handed. So most likely, if you're caught with 2 weapons, 1 illegal for deer hunting,  you're probably getting a ticket with a chance to fight it (at your own time and expense). 

just my .02.

[Doewhacker]

4 minutes ago, growalot said:

BTW I don't know why it took me so long to point this out again ...but let me address this directly and in detail:

I can hunt turkey with a compound bow and I can hunt deer with a compoud bow...you can not question that. I can NOT hunt deer with my 20ga modified choked shot gun  

I can hunt turkey with my 20 ga modified choke shot gun during fall season that overlaps bow season.

 So I am allowed to carry BOTH weapns into the field...Wonder why I said specifically modified choke? Because as easilly as I could kill a deer with a cross bow..I could slip in a slug and kill a deer...IF I were going to do some thing illegal ...Yet they are allowed to be carried at the same time..

It is illegal to have a slug on you while Turkey or small game hunting. There are shot size rules for this reason.

They are not allowed to be carried at the same time, you can bow hunt deer or gun hunt turkey but you cannot have a gun on you while bow hunting.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

2 minutes ago, Belo said:

you can be ticketed for just about anything. it's weather you're found guilty where the issue lies. Like a few have mentioned, is it worth it?

With your logic though an officer could hear a gunshot after dark and wait for the hunter to leave the woods. He finds me dragging a buck and tickets me for shooting after legal light. I state that it wasn't me, but that I killed that buck an hour ago and it must have been another hunter who shot. What proof does he have? There are no surveillance cams in the woods that are going to prove or disprove a lot of the regs that are in the books. 

 

 

And you would be OK with that? I wouldn't. Sorry but the burden of PROOF is still on them. 

[chrisw]

BTW I don't know why it took me so long to point this out again ...but let me address this directly and in detail:
I can hunt turkey with a compound bow and I can hunt deer with a compoud bow...you can not question that. I can NOT hunt deer with my 20ga modified choked shot gun  
I can hunt turkey with my 20 ga modified choke shot gun during fall season that overlaps bow season.
 So I am allowed to carry BOTH weapns into the field...Wonder why I said specifically modified choke? Because as easilly as I could kill a deer with a cross bow..I could slip in a slug and kill a deer...IF I were going to do some thing illegal ...Yet they are allowed to be carried at the same time..

Here's where your disconnect is, you're assuming if you agreed that what you were doing is ILLEGAL then you would also be labeled with poacher or something equivalent. That is not the case. I don't think you were attempting to cheat the law or poach anything. I'm simply telling you that you were doing something illegal unknowingly. You're letting your emotions and the interpretation you think it should be get in the way of what is actually the case and you're fighting it for no reason. You did something illegal on accident, we all learn from it and move on. Simple as that.

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[chrisw]

It is illegal to have a slug on you while Turkey or small game hunting. There are shot size rules for this reason.
They are not allowed to be carried at the same time, you can bow hunt deer or gun hunt turkey but you cannot have a gun on you while bow hunting.

Same thing with waterfowl, I can walk into a swamp to shoot ducks with my steel shot and my shotgun, I can have a box of lead shot in my pack for squirrels/partridge for on the walk out of the swamp. Am I legal? No, because I was actively hunting ducks while in possession of an illegal implement for taking ducks, whether I shot a single lead load or not. Is there a law that states this exact scenario? No, why? Because it's covered in other regulations and it's your job to make sure you are legal.

It's really mind boggling to me how some still cannot see the logic here.

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[Culvercreek hunt club]

You know what I find a bit funny. It seems like the guys that are really pushing hard on this thread to consider the crossbow as a firearm to satisfy the way the current regs are written are pretty much the against full inclusion as well. 

[chrisw]

You know what I find a bit funny. It seems like the guys that are really pushing hard on this thread to consider the crossbow as a firearm to satisfy the way the current regs are written are pretty much the against full inclusion as well. 

I said earlier I don't care either way how this pans out as I have no stake in the game. I'm telling you it's ILLEGAL. Where did anyone say the crossbow is a firearm? I said exactly the opposite. You're trying to derail the subject at hand because you were wrong.

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[growalot]

There was absolutely no emotion in what I just wrote...AND it has yet to be established I accidentally did ANYTHING illegal ...Now had I gone out and shot a deer with a cross bow...most certainly... EVEN if I had thought about shooting a deer with the crossbow NO definitely not...for there was no dead deer...

This is no different than carrying a shotgun and a compound to turkey hunt at the same time...I could legally shoot a deer with that compound  I could not with the shot gun , If I thought about it it's still not illegal until there is a dead deer.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

It is unlawful to:

• Take big game while the deer or bear is in water.
• Possess a firearm of any description when bowhunting or when accompanying a person bowhunting during special archery seasons.

 

Is it a Firearm? 

[chas0218]

1 minute ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

It is unlawful to:

• Take big game while the deer or bear is in water.
• Possess a firearm of any description when bowhunting or when accompanying a person bowhunting during special archery seasons.

 

Is it a Firearm? 

Already covered this look back at my post.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

4 minutes ago, chrisw said:

I said earlier I don't care either way how this pans out as I have no stake in the game. I'm telling you it's ILLEGAL. Where did anyone say the crossbow is a firearm? I said exactly the opposite. You're trying to derail the subject at hand because you were wrong.

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I don't believe I was wrong. Several post keep rewording the regs and interchange firearm with weapon.  IT doe not say weapon;

Edited October 24, 2017 by Culvercreek hunt club

[Doewhacker]

5 minutes ago, chrisw said:

Same thing with waterfowl, I can walk into a swamp to shoot ducks with my steel shot and my shotgun, I can have a box of lead shot in my pack for squirrels/partridge for on the walk out of the swamp. Am I legal? No, because I was actively hunting ducks while in possession of an illegal implement for taking ducks, whether I shot a single lead load or not. Is there a law that states this exact scenario? No, why? Because it's covered in other regulations and it's your job to make sure you are legal.

It's really mind boggling to me how some still cannot see the logic here.

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Actually I believe there is a law prohibiting having lead while duck or goose hunting.

[Five Seasons]

1 hour ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

 If we walked into the woods today with a crossbow there would be no questions (legal for turkey and small game). both legal implements for respective open seasons.  Now they are saying if you were to walk in with both in hand it would be a violation. 

i actually think there would be questions. Now if you had a turkey vest on and a bunch of decoys and calls you would probably be ok. If you were in a bunch of scentlok without any calls... you'd probably be ticketed. Ultimately the issue with grow's story in my opinion is that she had both. it's a lot more fuzzy than just having one or the other. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

3 minutes ago, chas0218 said:

Already covered this look back at my post.

I still think you are wrong. the logic of it being in ML privilege making it is a firearm is flawed. 

look at penal law and ENV law. the crossbow doe NOT meet the current definition of any firearm

Edited October 24, 2017 by Culvercreek hunt club

[chrisw]

There was absolutely no emotion in what I just wrote...AND it has yet to be established I accidentally did ANYTHING illegal ...Now had I gone out and shot a deer with a cross bow...most certainly... EVEN if I had thought about shooting a deer with the crossbow NO definitely not...for there was no dead deer...
This is no different than carrying a shotgun and a compound to turkey hunt at the same time...I could legally shoot a deer with that compound  I could not with the shot gun , If I thought about it it's still not illegal until there is a dead deer.

If the officer involved has probable cause to believe you were deer hunting while in possession of a shotgun then yes it would be illegal, dead deer or not.

See, this is exactly what I was talking about, you've gotten several answers and you're dismissing them all. Someone who is so over the top ethical would now admit that it seems probable I was doing something illegal unintentionally. But you can't do that, can you?

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