Interesting story on a violation

[BigVal]

That guy is way more honest than I am. 

[DoubleDose]

5 hours ago, Dom said:

Those laws are already in place this is why some areas have a 3 point on 1 side rule and some areas do not get doe permits.Some hunters are only after bigger/bucks that is their choice I will eat what I want and no one can or ever will tell me differently.I hunt because I like being outdoors and helps at time's when money is short I also fish for the freshest in season we never here debates on fish like we do on land animals why?100.00 dollars a season is alot less then having to go to the store and purchase food that we have no idea where it comes from.I am not for illegal poaching and such but dont grudge me or any othere that wishes to fill their plate that the land/seas have to offer

We NEVER here debates on fish??!!!  You must not fish saltwater or in the ocean.  We are constantly debating fish size, daily limits, season lengths and dates which change every year and during the course of the year.  We have to deal with NYS regulations and Federal regulations beyond 3 miles out (and these can conflict).   

[stubby68]

Had a bunch of doe come through past stand this year. Dropped the biggest one at 60 yards. As these deer were walking through before the shot I was able to glass everyone very well and in the open. All from the left side and front. Not an antler to be seen all appeared to be doeffective after shot the ones not lying flat out scattered all stopping after about 20 yards. Got right side views of them. One looked funny when I glazed them again I could see one had a flat antler that grew down the back of its head and along neck. If I had of shot that deer it would have been a buck. I had already used my buck tag so that deer would have been illegal  If in An AR area it would have been an illegal buck even if I still had a buck tag. I took plenty of time looking these animals over. Good binoculars and open view. 

        I guess my point is no matter how good of a look we get or how long we take we can never be sure as to what the animal has on its head unless it has huge antlers which is what the AR crap is all about. This guy was sure the buck was a shooter just as I would have been sure the deer was a doe. It was just luck of the draw I didn't picked that "doe" to shoot. What should he have done ask the deer to stop so he could walk over and put hands on to make sure. Taking the deer and a warning should have been enough. These laws are getting ridiculous. 

[Paula]

I think for his honesty he should have gotten to keep his tag

[TreeGuy]

I can appreciate his honesty as I'm sure the DNR did too, but taking the time to complain about the outcome when he should have taken the extra time to verify his target... I mean how long did it take him to write that blurb up ? Then send in ? Maybe 30 more seconds of checking his target could have saved him the headache. And who knows, a big mammy could have been 20 yrds behind his buck, or even a nice basket 8.... Endless possibilities.

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[stubby68]

8 minutes ago, TreeGuy said:

I can appreciate his honesty as I'm sure the DNR did too, but taking the time to complain about the outcome when he should have taken the extra time to verify his target... I mean how long did it take him to write that blurb up ? Then send in ? Maybe 30 more seconds of checking his target could have saved him the headache. And who knows, a big mammy could have been 20 yrds behind his buck, or even a nice basket 8.... Endless possibilities.

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Again how long is long enough. The deer I spoke about could have been watched got hours and if it never gave a right side view you wouldn't have thought it was a buck. If the deer would have been alone that would have been the one I shot. I would have has an illegal deer down. Only after shooting another deer did the buck give me a view that showed it to be a buck. Again how long is long enough. Do we just never shoot anything that isn't a 12 point?

[BigVal]

No just bucks that have three or more on one side 

[reeltime]

pretty vague story to begin with,  how far away was it, how long did it stand there, did he use the xbow scope or binocs,,,,,but bottom line he did not 100 % verify the deer as a legal buck that's on him. As to the fine and tag goes it was an illegal deer and that's the penalty. 

as far as PA and the $25.00 there are very FEW of those 25.00 fines handed out most of them are fined for sub legal buck, you loose the tag, the deer and pay a fine. Those are the ones that try to do it right or get caught with the deer, more than not the deer is left in the woods when they walk up and realize what they did. 

 

[TreeGuy]

Again how long is long enough. The deer I spoke about could have been watched got hours and if it never gave a right side view you wouldn't have thought it was a buck. If the deer would have been alone that would have been the one I shot. I would have has an illegal deer down. Only after shooting another deer did the buck give me a view that showed it to be a buck. Again how long is long enough. Do we just never shoot anything that isn't a 12 point?

As long as it takes to make certain your following the law. I don't write em, just try my best to abide by them and would expect others to do the same.

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[Zuke]

I think the problem here would lie within what would happen if the officer didn’t follow the law? Does that make it ok for everyone to take shots at “may be big enough” deer without the worry of punishment?

[YFKI1983]

I think the problem here would lie within what would happen if the officer didn’t follow the law? Does that make it ok for everyone to take shots at “may be big enough” deer without the worry of punishment?

Then everyone can theoretically shoot, call it in as an oops and go home

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[stubby68]

2 hours ago, TreeGuy said:

As long as it takes to make certain your following the law. I don't write em, just try my best to abide by them and would expect others to do the same.

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So never shoot unless it has at least 12 points then. That would be the only sure way to be safe. Like I said the one I saw could only be identified as antlerless unfilled I got a right side view. How many deer give you a view from every possible angle before it is too late to shoot? I agree should make every effort to identify even if no ar but short of walking up and putting hands on you can never be 100 percent sure. Mistakes will happen. Circumstances of what happened are taken into account for many crimes why go full regard over an obvious mistake that the hunter turned himself in for.

      How many doe have u shot that u got a 360 degree view of and knew for sure they didn't have a hidden antler. Or bucks that u knew the exact number of points and length of each one before u shot. Odds are few. 

[TreeGuy]

So never shoot unless it has at least 12 points then. That would be the only sure way to be safe. Like I said the one I saw could only be identified as antlerless unfilled I got a right side view. How many deer give you a view from every possible angle before it is too late to shoot? I agree should make every effort to identify even if no ar but short of walking up and putting hands on you can never be 100 percent sure. Mistakes will happen. Circumstances of what happened are taken into account for many crimes why go full regard over an obvious mistake that the hunter turned himself in for.
      How many doe have u shot that u got a 360 degree view of and knew for sure they didn't have a hidden antler. Or bucks that u knew the exact number of points and length of each one before u shot. Odds are few. 

I think your missing the point. No, it doesn't have to be a 180" 12 point (who would want to shoot that anyways) it's the point that AR's are set in place to allow a generation to survive, which means that if they are questionable, let them walk. Maybe they will come within a reasonable distance so you can clearly see the points, or maybe they will walk off and it will be the only deer you saw that year. Idk what to say, it's the law. I would suggest if your after the first deer that walks by with antlers you get yourself a good set of optics. Might be an investment that proves worthwhile when determining points from a distance.

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[stubby68]

4 minutes ago, TreeGuy said:

I think your missing the point. No, it doesn't have to be a 180" 12 point (who would want to shoot that anyways) it's the point that AR's are set in place to allow a generation to survive, which means that if they are questionable, let them walk. Maybe they will come within a reasonable distance so you can clearly see the points, or maybe they will walk off and it will be the only deer you saw that year. Idk what to say, it's the law. I would suggest if your after the first deer that walks by with antlers you get yourself a good set of optics. Might be an investment that proves worthwhile when determining points from a distance.

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 I have a great set of binoculars. My point is no matter how much time you take or how good a view you have unless you get a 360 degree view you can not be sure. Mistakes can and will happen. Human nature. Leos and courts take circumstances into consideration with other legal infractions why go full retard with an honest mistake. Oh that's right it could have grown to a trophy buck for an interior decorator to shoot. Gotta make sure all trophy potential can be reached. Hang them high if they dont

[vizslas]

could this Ar just be a money grab?. The guy called the cops on himself .Why do they give a hunting license to an idiot? That guy likes his whoopins. Ya  know every guy likes to shoot a big buck, and some guys need to shoot big bucks for some reason or another. I got my mounts on the wall, I got nothing to prove and dont need to be a hero/ frozen hero. Nore would I call the cops to give me a ticket and take my deer. I do however hate to eat beef, that shit just tastes bad to me and the wife. Would I vote for antler restrictions absolutely not.There are enough people propagating big bucks on private land. you do what gives you a warm fuzzy fealing and leave the people out of it who just cant stand the taste of USDA prime choice beef crap. Im shooting

[wolc123]

1 hour ago, vizslas said:

could this Ar just be a money grab?. The guy called the cops on himself .Why do they give a hunting license to an idiot? That guy likes his whoopins. Ya  know every guy likes to shoot a big buck, and some guys need to shoot big bucks for some reason or another. I got my mounts on the wall, I got nothing to prove and dont need to be a hero/ frozen hero. Nore would I call the cops to give me a ticket and take my deer. I do however hate to eat beef, that shit just tastes bad to me and the wife. Would I vote for antler restrictions absolutely not.There are enough people propagating big bucks on private land. you do what gives you a warm fuzzy fealing and leave the people out of it who just cant stand the taste of USDA prime choice beef crap. Im shooting

Michigan don't sound so good for the meat hunter.  Stories like that make me thankful to live here in NY, where we have plenty of deer and laws that make it easy to meet my family's protein needs with "organic" free-range venison.  I don't mind the taste of beef, but properly aged, corn-fed venison is just as good and way better for you.   I may have had a better meal than the button buck roast we enjoyed for dinner last night, but I can't remember when.      

[Lever action]

20 hours ago, Four Season Whitetails said:

Another very unproven stupid statement from this poster. You think the more you say it them it will be true?? Nothing is further than the truth. Today's hunter and hunting is all about making/finding and killing the most inches possible.


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If that were true you wouldn't have to have the State mandate antler restrictions.

[Doc]

There is one thing that can be said, for sure. That is that the more laws you have, the more likely that people with good intentions will innocently be sucked into some pretty ugly legal situations. When we try to set rules and regulations on every aspect of an activity there will be many who quite innocently, inadvertently, run afoul of those rules and suffer some bad consequences because of it. Environmental Conservation Law is one of the most complex and argued about and misunderstood collection of laws, and a tiny amount of time on this forum will show just how completely confused it already is by hunters and how complex others would like to make it. AR is one of the more difficult laws to abide by unless you do as Stubby has suggested and never shoot anything under a 12 point just to be sure. A side view can have a hunter confusing points on opposite antlers and quickly coming up with a mis-count.

And there are those that want to make the AR laws even easier to run afoul of. How about those that want to make antler spread the way of accomplishing AR requirements. Imagine how difficult that could become. That would require that the buck be looking straight at you. If he isn't, it would be a requirement that the hunter do something to make him look straight at you. So you can attempt to judge the distance between antlers in inches.

I long for the days when hunting was so much simpler, and abiding by the law was not such an easy trap for the innocent to run afoul of. And yet there are so many who engage in fad-management proposals that never seem to worry about or consider the growing volumes of complex restrictions and requirements.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

There is one thing that can be said, for sure. That is that the more laws you have, the more likely that people with good intentions will innocently be sucked into some pretty ugly legal situations. When we try to set rules and regulations on every aspect of an activity there will be many who quite innocently, inadvertently, run afoul of those rules and suffer some bad consequences because of it. Environmental Conservation Law is one of the most complex and argued about and misunderstood collection of laws, and a tiny amount of time on this forum will show just how completely confused it already is by hunters and how complex others would like to make it. AR is one of the more difficult laws to abide by unless you do as Stubby has suggested and never shoot anything under a 12 point just to be sure. A side view can have a hunter confusing points on opposite antlers and quickly coming up with a mis-count.

And there are those that want to make the AR laws even easier to run afoul of. How about those that want to make antler spread the way of accomplishing AR requirements. Imagine how difficult that could become. That would require that the buck be looking straight at you. If he isn't, it would be a requirement that the hunter do something to make him look straight at you. So you can attempt to judge the distance between antlers in inches.

I long for the days when hunting was so much simpler, and abiding by the law was not such an easy trap for the innocent to run afoul of. And yet there are so many who engage in fad-management proposals that never seem to worry about or consider the growing volumes of complex restrictions and requirements.

If its a law you do what it takes to abide by it or you break it.  If a buck gets away because you didnt have time to figure it out then some would say the law did its job.

[hunterdan44]

I hunt in region 4 in an a/r dmu. I have been hunting 40 years in the same area, and I believe we went to a/r in 2011 . So it really has changed the way we hunt. The challenge is antler identification, along with a clear and safe shot for a quick kill. My group of hunters are now used to a/r and we continue to kill bucks. Whether you for them or not is a personal choice, but I will say that prior to a/r anything bigger than a six pt. was rare for us to take. Now we seem to get at least one or two eight points per season. Passing spikes and fours that would have been shot.


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[YFKI1983]

I hunt in region 4 in an a/r dmu. I have been hunting 40 years in the same area, and I believe we went to a/r in 2011 . So it really has changed the way we hunt. The challenge is antler identification, along with a clear and safe shot for a quick kill. My group of hunters are now used to a/r and we continue to kill bucks. Whether you for them or not is a personal choice, but I will say that prior to a/r anything bigger than a six pt. was rare for us to take. Now we seem to get at least one or two eight points per season. Passing spikes and fours that would have been shot.


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I hunt in 4O and same thing. We haven't taken big ones yet but have had a few encounters with bucks that we were never seeing prior. I have multiple big bucks at least on cam every year now when before a 6pt was a nice buck for our property

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[gjs4]

Anytime you pass judgment on a third hand story there is likelihood you’re missing key aspects


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[Merlot]

Seems to me the solution to an issue like the honest hunter reporting his mistake is to eliminate the antler restriction rule across the board, promote the "let em grow" angle and just let people hunt and harvest what the tag(s) allow hunters to harvest and be done with this. I would like accurate hunting records kept on actual hunter success/ tag soup data to better manage the herd. All hunters report in at end of season what they did or did not harvest. If no report in, no tag next season.

[Doc]

On ‎1‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 10:16 AM, Four Season Whitetails said:

If its a law you do what it takes to abide by it or you break it.  If a buck gets away because you didnt have time to figure it out then some would say the law did its job.

So, is that the purpose of AR? ..... to let more legal bucks escape? I didn't realize that, but I'll bet it frequently does work out that way. So it is a law to confound hunters. I wonder if it is backed by PETA. It seems like they would love it.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

So, is that the purpose of AR? ..... to let more legal bucks escape? I didn't realize that, but I'll bet it frequently does work out that way. So it is a law to confound hunters. I wonder if it is backed by PETA. It seems like they would love it.

Its a law to save young bucks so they can mature. If you have to spot test one that bad its probably 1 of 2 things.....Its not big enough to meet the law or its a risky shot to begin with. To fast or to much brush.

Yup..save the babies!