Question for the AR15 Folks

[moog5050]

Had enough fun hunting with treeguy that I decided to buy a dedicated predator gun.  Sold one of my trad bows last night to responsibly fund it - i.e. not tick of my wife on another hunting purchase.  lol  Never owned an AR but it seems like a very good option being semi, reasonably accurate and something new to me.  MY lever action 30-30 was not ideal as I learned.  Obviously it will have to be safe act legal so I am considering one with a pinned mag versus featureless. Andrew suggested I look at DD's Ranch for safe act compliant ARs.  Doesn't hurt that the shop is 5 min from him and I could grab one, sight in and we can hit the woods again. 

Anyways, thinking about the DPMS, Stag Arms Model 3 or perhaps even a colt LE6920.  Talked to the owner a bit who was steering me towards either a Stag Arms or Smith and Wesson.  Looking at the 5.56/.223 and think I would prefer one without a front sight for ease of mounting optics (although I was told anything higher than 3x and you won't see the front sight).  I don't see either Smith and Wesson or colt versions without a front sight.  Not sure how much it matters.

Looking for thoughts/comments from anyone with experience with these rifles.  Leaning towards the Stag at this point but need to handle them to decide.  Thanks.

Already stole a kill light so I am set there!  Haha.

[dbHunterNY]

there's ton of options out there.  you could do it piece by piece and not settle for a upper/lower combo. also i wouldn't weld or epoxy the mag to the lower to pin it. Use bolt/hardware with rubber washer and epoxied end threads or something similar so if the mag fails you don't have to damage the lower receiver to get it out and replace the mag. you'd cut or grind off the hardware that's permanently attaching them together. also i'd go with a wylde 223 rem/5.56 chamber versus just 5.56 NATO (less accuracy with 223 ammo) or 223 (can't fire 5.56 cheaper ammo due to pressure). i feel an ARs work better on sticks than a bi-pod. some setups with hills and terrain make for close shotgun shots, but setting a rifle down to pick up a shotgun isn't always ideal. M-lok forends are nice with an offset angled mount for a reflex style red dot. Magpul PRS stock is heavier but nice.

[moog5050]

6 minutes ago, dbHunterNY said:

there's ton of options out there.  you could do it piece by piece and not settle for a upper/lower combo. also i wouldn't weld or epoxy the mag to the lower to pin it. Use bolt/hardware with rubber washer and epoxied end threads or something similar so if the mag fails you don't have to damage the lower receiver to get it out and replace the mag. you'd cut or grind off the hardware that's permanently attaching them together. also i'd go with a wylde 223 rem/5.56 chamber versus just 5.56 NATO (less accuracy with 223 ammo) or 223 (can't fire 5.56 cheaper ammo due to pressure). i feel an ARs work better on sticks than a bi-pod. some setups with hills and terrain make for close shotgun shots, but setting a rifle down to pick up a shotgun isn't always ideal. M-lok forends are nice with an offset angled mount for a reflex style red dot. Magpul PRS stock is heavier but nice.

Not knowing much about ARs, building one from components seems like a daunting task.  Although you are not the first to suggest that to me.

[sodfather]

DD’s ranch is All I know about them. My buddy has one from there said he was happy. I always wanted one but can’t seem to spend that kind of cash, other items on my list. 

[dbHunterNY]

5 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

Not knowing much about ARs, building one from components seems like a daunting task.  Although you are not the first to suggest that to me.

depends on how stripped the upper and lower are that you're buying. some fit together a little better than others but all are the same platform and design. upper i'd have the barrel and carrier group already installed. things like sights and add-ons are added easily. most i know with iron sights go with top, rail mounted, ones that flip down and out of the way for mostly using optics.

[Hunter007]

Never owned a AR15 but you here so much about them being so great  I feel like I'm missing out .

So may be this is a dumb question but they sell them with fixed mags and that gets around the new York laws against them? Having a pistol grip ?

 

[moog5050]

4 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

Never owned a AR15 but you here so much about them being so great  I feel like I'm missing out .

So may be this is a dumb question but they sell them with fixed mags and that gets around the new York laws against them? Having a pistol grip ?

 

Yep. 

[Hunter007]

2 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

Yep. 

Yea but does that make it a pain to load that type of action . ? Sorry if that is a dumb question.  ? But have not really looked at one in years .

[moog5050]

7 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

Yea but does that make it a pain to load that type of action . ? Sorry if that is a dumb question.  ? But have not really looked at one in years .

Not dumb.  There are videos online showing it.  You push a pin and hinge the upper to load from the top.  Yes, its more difficult that releasing a mag and loading it.  Other option is buy one that doesn't have the evil features but that seems take away the ergonomics of an AR.

[LET EM GROW]

I do not have advise, but am following because I have been contemplating one for my Night time coyote setup next year, as ill have to buy my own and give my step son back his 243, man that thing shoots 55gr v-max well! lol  

I know basically nothing about an AR.. Never ever been an interest to me until now..  

[Hunter007]

11 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

Not dumb.  There are videos online showing it.  You push a pin and hinge the upper to load from the top.  Yes, its more difficult that releasing a mag and loading it.  Other option is buy one that doesn't have the evil features but that seems take away the ergonomics of an AR.

Is there any on going litigation to get rid of that dumb law ?

Or are we pretty much stuck with it 

[philoshop]

8 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

Is there any on going litigation to get rid of that dumb law ?

Or are we pretty much stuck with it 

We're never "stuck" with anything until we stop voting.

[moog5050]

4 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

Is there any on going litigation to get rid of that dumb law ?

Or are we pretty much stuck with it 

No idea.  But if you read the list of features prohibited with a detachable mag, its obvious none really have any impact on the capability of the rifle.  IE, none would prevent one from being used like any other AR.  Its just a silly and arbitrary law.  But for now, if you want an AR that has any of the banned features, it must have a fixed magazine.

[loworange88]

https://www.meanarms.com

Mean Arms sell a nice little alternative for top loaders.  They have hardware kits for "pinning" mags to the lower.  The only draw back I can see to a top loader for hunting, is UNloading it after the hunt.

Still...I'm tempted to build one.

Currently I use an ARES SCR (Fightlight Industries now).  Uses a different design for the buffer system and bolt carrier group, the stock is modelled after a Remington 1187 if I'm not mistaken, but the rest of the rifle is AR-15.  Its NYS legal.

[chrisw]

Honestly, rather than messing around with a mag lock of some sort, just put a grip "spur" on it, they're like $30, not that uncomfortable once you get used to it and you're good to go. That'll get you around the grip issue, the spur be"doesn't protrude conspicuously below the magwell." It really depends if you want a "tactical" AR which is more looks than anything, or a hunting rig. Most of the bells and whistles people stick on their AR's are useless to their application and just make your gun weigh 12 lbs. I set my AR up for predator hunting and most of the time still grab a bolt gun when I go... FWIW...

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

[moog5050]

4 minutes ago, loworange88 said:

https://www.meanarms.com

Mean Arms sell a nice little alternative for top loaders.  They have hardware kits for "pinning" mags to the lower.  The only draw back I can see to a top loader for hunting, is UNloading it after the hunt.

Still...I'm tempted to build one.

Currently I use an ARES SCR (Fightlight Industries now).  Uses a different design for the buffer system and bolt carrier group, the stock is modelled after a Remington 1187 if I'm not mistaken, but the rest of the rifle is AR-15.  Its NYS legal.

I saw that.  Its pretty cool.  You are right, it solves loading but still requires hinging the upper to unload.  For $35 it would be worth it.  From what I understand, the DD ranch ARs have the mags mechanically pinned.  Probably similar to the meanarms kit.

Honestly, for hunting, the fixed mag is fine with me, albeit a bit more inconvenient.

[Hunter007]

18 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

No idea.  But if you read the list of features prohibited with a detachable mag, its obvious none really have any impact on the capability of the rifle.  IE, none would prevent one from being used like any other AR.  Its just a silly and arbitrary law.  But for now, if you want an AR that has any of the banned features, it must have a fixed magazine.

Yea,i know I don't get it , but if someone really wants  to go crazy with a guns and start shooting up a place  they will just bring a bag load of them this way you don't even have to bother reloading just pick up another loaded gun . Im pretty sure all these nutjobs that do that crap alway have multiple weapons on them when they get caught .

The most dangerous weapon is the human mind .

If some wack job does not care if he dies you can't stop him with a law only with a bullet . So basically it is a feel good law to act like they did something .

Edited February 7, 2018 by Storm914

[loworange88]

Moog,  Mean Arms mag lock kit looks like a bolt with a sleeve nut, I think once it reaches a certain torque the head snaps off leaving the hardware in place of the mag release, and since the head is now snapped off, it would require drilling it out to remove.

I set up my Ares with a green spot light, with a standard 5 round magazine, I hope to have it out this weekend for some Coyotes myself.

[Steve D]

Just one opinion: Regardless of what you end up with if you are varmint hunting you will not want a FIXED magazine rifle. Making multiple stops getting in and out of the vehicle almost commands a detachable magazine. That being said if you are looking at the ar platform a flat top upper like this one with no front sight is ideal.

It allows for a scope to be mounted. Another recommendation would be to make sure the barrel length is over 16". The 16" barrels are LOUDER than hell. I would recommend a 20" but that is just me.. The nice part about ar's is you can purchase or build different caliber uppers and use the same lower. The problem is they are difficult to legally own in NY state. Not impossible but difficult.

There are some very nice alternative options in a .223 bolt action with detachable magazines if you are certain you want a centerfire.

 

Edited February 7, 2018 by Steve D

[moog5050]

3 minutes ago, Steve D said:

Just one opinion: Regardless of what you end up with if you are varmint hunting you will not want a FIXED magazine rifle. Making multiple stops getting in and out of the vehicle almost commands a detachable magazine. That being said if you are looking at the ar platform a flat top upper like this one with no front sight is ideal.

That's a good point Steve.  I had not thought about that.

[Steve D]

10 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

That's a good point Steve.  I had not thought about that.

Did some editing

[Jdubs]

"If" I were to go the AR route from scratch for preds, I'd go featureless.  This means a Thornsden stock, crowned barrel (16.1") and railed upper (M-LOK style). You'll want the rail space for mounting the scope and lights and there's no point to having a fixed front sight post.  Try to keep the base rifle lightweight.

Pick a brand that fits the budget and use a good lube (eg, SLIP 2000 - EWL).  No one in this FUBAR state will ever pound on a rifle so hard that the upper tier rifles will make a huge difference.  The un-SAFE Act completely screwed the typical, law-abiding citizen who owned a modern sporting rifle in common use.  

[Rattler]

Although I hate the SAFE Act and want it repealed, I don't see it happening unless the SCOTUS finds these stupid laws to be unconstitutional regarding the 2nd Amendment, mainly because AR's are in common use already.

That being said, I wouldn't consider investing money in an AR at this time because the work arounds that make them compliant in NY today could very easily be criminalized tomorrow the same way the SAFE Act was passed in the first place.  If you don't think they are already planning to do that, you're deluding yourself.

Nothing angers me more then legally buying and owning something, only to have the government decide it's illegal years later.

That being said, I have a Remington 700 SPS with a Leupold VXII 4-12x40mm AO with a Mil Dot reticle that takes predators very nicely.  It shoots minute of angle and is fast enough for follow up shots at any predator, if needed, which is rare.

I don't think an AR would be a better predator rifle, but it does have dual purpose capability in a SHTF situation, if all the compliant mods can be reversed that is.

[TreeGuy]

Lurking....

 

 

Obviously I've given my opinion on the matter. The one thing I never mentioned was the pain of the load/unload at every set can be minimised by a speed loader. Also, when unloading, it's pretty fast to rack the action back and forth and can prob be done in 6 seconds to clear the rifle.

 

As far as the style of "pinning" DD's does do epoxy over an Allen head bolt. Basically means if you have a mag failure it CAN be taken off without damaging the lower in anyway. Most will come with a mil spec mag anyways which very,very,very rarely fail.

 

 

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[grampy]

I'm looking at the Ruger Precision Rifle. Detachable magazine and all the bells and whistles of an AR. And still pretty quick with follow up shots, if need be. My experience is that after the first shot, very seldom do you get a follow up. It's usually spray and pray, as they run off. I'm not a spray and pray kinda guy. I like to make that first one count!