For Or Against Full Inclusion

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I am assuming that you feel that this forum survey is a bona fide scientific study. I am not a statistician or any credible expert on survey taking, but I suspect that most people with that training would probably have a good laugh at our little amateur attempt at a credible survey.....lol. 

No but it does show that the assertion that its gun hunters picking up crossbows is not valid either. I see it more are deer hunters grabbing another weapon to use

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Let the deer kill numbers keep dropping and soon they will let you use anything you want to kill.  More doe tags givin out yet less does taken?  They think they need all these doe killed they will open the floodgates.

[Hunter007]

16 minutes ago, Four Season Whitetail's said:

Let the deer kill numbers keep dropping and soon they will let you use anything you want to kill.  More doe tags givin out yet less does taken?  They think they need all these doe killed they will open the floodgates.

Lol i think a lot of guys get doe tags  as backup anyway. 

They really just want a nice looking rack .

 

Edited April 7, 2018 by Storm914

[Four Season Whitetail's]

15 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

Lol i think a lot of guys get doe tags  as backup anyway. 

They really just want a nice looking rack .

 

Nah...Most dont even care if they see a buck or not. They all wake up in hopes of just enjoying the day !

[Cory]

2 hours ago, Rob... said:

This is sitting on the Governors desk in NYC! Man, I wish people would really understand, Andy doesn't live in Albany, his office is in the NYC area, and I don't believe he's ever lived in or near Albany. Sorry, I'm not trying to detract from my own thread, but do some frikin' homework people! Andy doesn't live upstate! Look at where the bill is at a halt, all it needs is his signature. But, he's to busy looking for ways to ban guns to care about hunting in any way shape or form!

Seems you need to do your homework before calling people out. The governors desk is in Albany it's in a little building called the the state capital building. Second of all the crossbow full inclusion bill #S1386A S7508 B part KKK are bills brought to the senate by senator gallivan. These bills failed to reach the senate floor for vote. Therefore would not have made it to the governors desk in the State Capital Building in Albany NY! Now back to regular scheduled programming!

[DirtTime]

4 minutes ago, Cory said:

Seems you need to do your homework before calling people out. The governors desk is in Albany it's in a little building called the the state capital building. Second of all the crossbow full inclusion bill #S1386A S7508 B part KKK are bills brought to the senate by senator gallivan. These bills failed to reach the senate floor for vote. Therefore would not have made it to the governors desk in the State Capital Building in Albany NY! Now back to regular scheduled programming!

 

Really? I am not even going to do a back and forth with you. Cuomo does not now, nor has ever lived in the upstate region. He may have an "Office", but he's never in Albany.

[Cory]

4 minutes ago, Rob... said:

Really? I am not even going to do a back and forth with you. Cuomo does not now, nor has ever lived in the upstate region. He may have an "Office", but he's never in Albany.

Fare enough but one last thing cuomo lives in westChester county and it is considered upstate! 

[Cory]

I apologize westChester is downstate I was under the impression anything that is not in the 5 boroughs or Long Island was considered upstate. 

[Nomad]

Ha ,nobody has ever been able to define  “ upstate”. You can call it whatever you want .

[Bowshotmuzzleloader]

Why does it matter to you the reason??? We all are different and if it s legal why judge or pretend you have some power to cast some judgement over someone for how they believe...

Edited April 7, 2018 by Bowshotmuzzleloader
Response to Storms post...

[wolc123]

It looks like the yeahs are starting to run away with it now, pretty soon it will be 3:1 in favor of full inclusion if this keeps up.  I always knew we had a pretty good membership here overall.

[DirtTime]

I am for full inclusion for those who have health issues, but aren't classified as disabled. Let them be in the woods and hunting as much as they can. If a crossbow lets them to that, it's awesome. Also hoping it might bring more people into hunting. That, is where my being for full inclusion stops!

 

 

Being a primarily public land hunter, I have some reservations, I've seen some vert bow hunters who are nuts, pulling up to parking areas with radios blasting ( that rap/hip crap and and the amps make the ground shake ), groups standing around before light having that last cup of java talking loud and roaring laughter ( it's not just the gun hunting crowd who screw up the woods in some areas ). But, it's public land and nothing I can do about it. I have also been in public areas that are very small and have a ton of hiking trails. So dealing with the dog walkers, joggers, cyclists, bird watchers, noise gets frustrating as well. Again, it is what it is though.

I can understand and see the point of view from those who own and hunt private land that it may bring increased poachers, full inclusion could become a huge issue!

 

[Doc]

On ‎4‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 8:47 PM, Culvercreek hunt club said:

No but it does show that the assertion that its gun hunters picking up crossbows is not valid either. I see it more are deer hunters grabbing another weapon to use

Basically, it shows nothing. It may indicate that bowhunters are in the minority of all deer hunters, but if we are to be honest , these kinds of unscientific polls with unregulated criteria and an insignificant sampling size tell us nothing at all.

[Jdubs]

33 minutes ago, Doc said:

Basically, it shows nothing. It may indicate that bowhunters are in the minority of all deer hunters, but if we are to be honest , these kinds of unscientific polls with unregulated criteria and an insignificant sampling size tell us nothing at all.

We should ban these unscientific and show-nothing forum polls to avoid any future hurt feelings. 

Look, this poll and countless pages of inclusion discussion threads all demonstrate the same common things.  Take it for what it's worth:

1. Of those who have expressed their opinion, more hunters on this forum support inclusion than not.

2.  There are some very passionate supporters on each side and plenty of other hunters who don't care either way.

3.  We are all going to hunt the way we hunt regardless.

[wolc123]

Because this poll is now over 2:1 in favor of full inclusion, it shows the increasing level of support with membership, when compared to the only other poll, which disappeared over a year ago.   That poll was right about at 2:1 in favor of full inclusion when it went away.   There have been lots of threads and discussions on it here but only one other poll.  Prove it to us if you think otherwise, or just admit you got nothing.       

Edited April 8, 2018 by wolc123

[wolc123]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

Basically, it shows nothing. It may indicate that bowhunters are in the minority of all deer hunters, but if we are to be honest , these kinds of unscientific polls with unregulated criteria and an insignificant sampling size tell us nothing at all.

Look at previous post

Edited April 8, 2018 by wolc123

[airedale]

Not even 70 members have participated in this poll up to this point, this board has almost 8000 members and beyond that there are somewhere around 600,000 hunting licences sold in this state. One could go to another hunting board and find the numbers completely reversed. As Doc said 70 members voting on this matter on one particular message board is about as  insignificant as it gets.

Al

Edited April 8, 2018 by airedale

[wolc123]

12 minutes ago, airedale said:

Not even 70 members have participated in this poll up to this point, this board has almost 8000 members and beyond that there are somewhere around 600,000 hunting licences sold in this state. One could go to another hunting board and find the numbers completely reversed. As Doc said 70 members voting on this matter on one particular message board is about as  insignificant as it gets.

Al

Sounds like pure nonsense to me.  Produce such a poll just like Rob produced this one right here or admit you got nothing.  Does 70 = 0 ?  If not then we have something while you still have nothing.   Maybe if you go to the NYB site you can find numbers in your favor.  

Edited April 8, 2018 by wolc123

[airedale]

1 hour ago, wolc123 said:

Sounds like pure nonsense to me.

Well if you think that a poll involving 70 members of a message board should the determining factor for what goes for 600,000 other NY hunting licence holders you are even nuttier than I first thought.

Personally I am all for a democratic solution, if the majority of NY hunting licence holders can be legitimately polled and they are for full inclusion of crossbows so be it.

Al

 

Edited April 8, 2018 by airedale

[Jdubs]

12 minutes ago, airedale said:

Well if you think that a poll involving 70 members of a message board should the determining factor for what goes for 600,000 other NY hunting licence holders you are even nuttier than I first thought.

Personally I am all for a democratic solution, if the majority of NY hunting licence holders are for full inclusion of crossbows so be it.

Al

 

Since when does the NY Legislature ever make laws based on what the majority of New Yorkers wants?   They'll vote it in when the money is right and the 3 men in a room tell them to.

[Hunter007]

33 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

Sounds like pure nonsense to me.  Produce such a poll just like Rob produced this one right here or admit you got nothing.  Does 70 = 0 ?  If not then we have something while you still have nothing.   Maybe if you go to the NYB site you can find numbers in your favor.  

What is the reason  need for full inclusion anyway ?
If DEC really wants  to get rid of more deer a longer gun season and more tags in it will do the job  better then any XBow .
If you want to promote traditional archery you need a season for it alone.
Or else it becomes to much of a technology war .  And less people will try to get into the sport of  traditional archery  .
That is  why these polls are always going to show more in favor for xbows then not . Everyone knows there easier to use .
It's like asking a drunk if he wants more beer . disability or
If your old  like over 60 I believe you should be able to use one in all archery tho . I think for younger guys it would be good to keep at least part of the season just for traditional archery just to get younger hunters more reason to try it out at least and keep the sport growing.
Think about it  this way . if you could use gun in all seasons lol
The numbers of any archery equipment used will dwindle to almost nothing . Lol




 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Basically, it shows nothing. It may indicate that bowhunters are in the minority of all deer hunters, but if we are to be honest , these kinds of unscientific polls with unregulated criteria and an insignificant sampling size tell us nothing at all.

I am not even talking about this poll. I am basing what I am seeing and the harvest numbers.

[G-Man]

1 hour ago, Storm914 said:

What is the reason  need for full inclusion anyway ?
If DEC really wants  to get rid of more deer a longer gun season and more tags in it will do the job  better then any XBow .
If you want to promote traditional archery you need a season for it alone.
Or else it becomes to much of a technology war .  And less people will try to get into the sport of  traditional archery  .
That is  why these polls are always going to show more in favor for xbows then not . Everyone knows there easier to use .
It's like asking a drunk if he wants more beer . disability or
If your old  like over 60 I believe you should be able to use one in all archery tho . I think for younger guys it would be good to keep at least part of the season just for traditional archery just to get younger hunters more reason to try it out at least and keep the sport growing.
Think about it  this way . if you could use gun in all seasons lol
The numbers of any archery equipment used will dwindle to almost nothing . Lol




 

A longer gun season doesn't work.. almost 90% of deer are shot the 1st 2 weekends.. if anything having a 2 week gun. Then closing hunting for 2 weeks a d having another 2 weeks would do far more. Both out seasons are way to long and consecutive.  Even a split archery season would do more for numbers . 2 weeks ..2 weeks no hunting... 2 weeks hunting.. the calm and return to normal.patterens. 

The biggest complaint is too much pressure causes deer to go nocturnal.. this eliminates that to a point.

[wolc123]

1 hour ago, Storm914 said:

What is the reason  need for full inclusion anyway ?
If DEC really wants  to get rid of more deer a longer gun season and more tags in it will do the job  better then any XBow .
If you want to promote traditional archery you need a season for it alone.
Or else it becomes to much of a technology war .  And less people will try to get into the sport of  traditional archery  .
That is  why these polls are always going to show more in favor for xbows then not . Everyone knows there easier to use .
It's like asking a drunk if he wants more beer . disability or
If your old  like over 60 I believe you should be able to use one in all archery tho . I think for younger guys it would be good to keep at least part of the season just for traditional archery just to get younger hunters more reason to try it out at least and keep the sport growing.
Think about it  this way . if you could use gun in all seasons lol
The numbers of any archery equipment used will dwindle to almost nothing . Lol




 

Those are some pretty good questions so I will take my best stab at answers as it relates to full inclusion of crossbow.

First, guns make deer to go nocturnal faster, and over a much wider area than bows & crossbows do.  That is because they are a lot louder and deer have pretty good hearing. They use that sense to keep themselves alive, probably to a greater degree than all their other senses except smell.  That means when they hear a shot the next town over, they will be less likely to come out in the daylight and feed.    I have witnessed this myself, when the neighbors start target practicing in the late afternoons, when I have been out bowhunting.  The deer have stopped feeding and hightailed it into the brush, at the first shot over half a mile away.  Shooting by itself does not always spook them, as I have also seen them right on the trap or rifle range in the summer.  One time a buck actually was sniffing my gun barrel as I was downrange checking targets.   That sight gave me some chills as I hoped he did not knock it off the sandbags while it was pointed in my direction.  Shooting, combined with some human scent where and when  it should not be will send them for cover every time.  

Full inclusion of the crossbow would allow it to be deployed at the start of the season, when most are still feeding in the daylight, making them easier to kill.   Under the current regs of 3 days (10 if you include the early ML week) in the NZ and 14 days in the SZ, by the time the crossbow is legal, the deer have already been subjected to many weeks of archery pressure.  Even though that is silent, it still spreads human scent,  which makes them go nocturnal.  Most hunters know that the sense of smell is the one that deer rely on the most for survival.  More tags does not allow for the killing of nocturnal deer or deer on property that is closed to hunting.   I believe the statistics show that about 75 % of the deer are killed on the first weekend of gun season so it really does not matter much how long the season is.  

I never claimed to want to promote "traditional archery", however I have no problems with others doing it.   There are plenty enough deer in this state for all.  Personally, about the only thing I dislike about hunting is when a deer is wounded and not recovered.   That means I will use technology to minimize the chances of that happening.   Some may call it luck (I know it is not) but that has not happened to me in the last 14 seasons.   The crossbow has played a big part of that.  I was never able to approach the 100 % success ratio with a vertical bow that I have maintained over 4 seasons with a crossbow.   I know there are some folks who are into traditional archery for the "challenge".  Those are the natural-born "fighters".  You can't help the way you were born.  I am thankful to be a natural born killer.  Us killers seek to remove all the challenge we can to get the job done.  We don't like to "play games".  By the same token, you won't often catch me practicing "catch-and release" when I go fishing.   That is another good test to see how you were born.  I see "catch and release" as nothing but the senseless maiming of a fine food source.    

Even though I personally do not agree with theory of traditional archery (more challenge), I fully respect the right of others to continue to do it, and I would never vote to take that right away from them.  As far as traditional archery going away, it largely has already with compounds, releases, 75 % let-off, etc.  New "fighters" are born every day though, and as long as we keep those options open for them, I see no reason why it can't continue for many more years.       

Edited April 8, 2018 by wolc123

[Hunter007]

14 minutes ago, G-Man said:

A longer gun season doesn't work.. almost 90% of deer are shot the 1st 2 weekends.. if anything having a 2 week gun. Then closing hunting for 2 weeks a d having another 2 weeks would do far more. Both out seasons are way to long and consecutive.  Even a split archery season would do more for numbers . 2 weeks ..2 weeks no hunting... 2 weeks hunting.. the calm and return to normal.patterens. 

The biggest complaint is too much pressure causes deer to go nocturnal.. this eliminates that to a point.

That is true 

When that happens you have to push them drives and walk and stalk .

But  anyway  you ask a hunter especially at the end of the season and he still got nothing if he would like to have more time gun hunting .

Even if he had to pay extra for that privilege most Will say yes to it . And if you did it in x bow season  guess what most guys will be out there with there guns not xbow lol  and if you told them you could pay extra to gun hunt all of archery season.

It would be that much worse 

Almost nobody would pick up any type of bow or crossbow for hunting in this state .

It is what it is .