For Or Against Full Inclusion

[moog5050]

My suspicion. Is that most of the trad hunters don’t want a special trad only 2 weeks.  And most don’t give a hoot if you hunt with a crossbow from Oct 1 until season closes.   Just a guess.  

[Hunter007]

1 hour ago, wolc123 said:

Times have changed and deer have adapted.  Guns alone are no longer getting it done in many DMU's, including the one where I live.   If you do not live in a zone that is grossly overpopulated, then you may have no comprehension of this.  Climate change has also contributed to the overpopulation issue.  It has been more than (3) years, since we have had frost in the ground deeper than  2", and there has not been more than 2 weekends, the last three winters, for the snow to be deep enough for decent snowmobiling.   They are practically giving the used ones away around here now.     

Other states (such as Ohio), have accomplished better control of their deer herds, and a higher degree of hunter satisfaction, by allowing full-inclusion of the crossbow during archery season.  The guns alone have fell short in NY, primarily due to to their noise, and an opportunity for archery season to contribute has been squandered by keeping crossbows out.  A one-two punch of crossbows/compounds, then guns could likely get it done here just like it did in Ohio.  There is no evidence to prove that it could not, while there are many other states which have proved that it could.  Based on the increasing margin of support for full-inclusion that this poll is showing, it probably will not be too much longer before NY follows suit.  I will go out on a limb and predict that it will happen by October 1, 2019.  When do you think it will happen ?  All we have now, is a small group of "elitists" holding us back.   I don't see how they can hold on much longer, especially if we keep this poll right on top for all to see.  We have them on the ropes now and it is time to pummel them into submission.  We only need (4) more votes to get to 100.   

Farmers can get nuisance permits if its that bad. 

 

And that is crazy that you think guns can't control the deer population lol 

In the 19,  18 century they almost made  deer go  extinct with just muzzleloaders 

 

Edited April 15, 2018 by Storm914

[Steve D]

My biggest issue with this entire topic is the fact that ANYONE can pick up a crossbow and go hunting. Back when I took my bow hunters education course there was a ton of good information provided on the techniques of bow hunting and I personally learned a lot.

 To hunt with a cross bow all you need is a hunters safety course and a self provided "Crossbow Certificate of Qualification" which I think is bull. I am sure the expectation of the state was that most buying x-bows would be bow hunters that are already certified and experienced and therefore a separate course would not be required. In my opinion (and it is only an opinion) you should not be entitled to hunt with a x-bow without completing the Mandatory Bowhunter Education course period.

The x-bow could easily be included in the bowhunting course and maybe some of those so eager to hunt with a x-bow would get to learn something about deer hunting in the process.

Edited April 15, 2018 by Steve D

[wolc123]

43 minutes ago, Steve D said:

My biggest issue with this entire topic is the fact that ANYONE can pick up a crossbow and go hunting. Back when I took my bow hunters education course there was a ton of good information provided on the techniques of bow hunting and I personally learned a lot.

 To hunt with a cross bow all you need is a hunters safety course and a self provided "Crossbow Certificate of Qualification" which I think is bull. I am sure the expectation of the state was that most buying x-bows would be bow hunters that are already certified and experienced and therefore a separate course would not be required. In my opinion (and it is only an opinion) you should not be entitled to hunt with a x-bow without completing the Mandatory Bowhunter Education course period.

The x-bow could easily be included in the bowhunting course and maybe some of those so eager to hunt with a x-bow would get to learn something about deer hunting in the process.

I agree that the archery course should be required to hunt with a crossbow.   It sounds like there was some type of compromise deal 5 years ago, with an organized anti-crossbow group, that forced them to be categorized as muzzleloaders in order to get them in for the last 14 days of archery season in the southern zone and the last (3) in the northern zone.   

Right now, it seems like most NY crossbow hunters still are or were bowhunters previously, with only a few taking it up who only gun-hunted before.   The requirement of the archery course should make the percentage of crossbow hunters, who were not bowhunters previously, even less.   The 40 year Ohio stats provide a very good indication that many will continue to use vertical bows, even after full-inclusion of the crossbow occurs.              

[Hunter007]

14 hours ago, wolc123 said:

Thanks, and be careful out there.

Sounds like you just want a better way to kill more deer  besides a gun or a compound  bow so I am surprised you don't support things like airbow or big bore airguns having a special season  they don't make a loud sound like a gun   and have even better range   than a crossbow . 

 

 

[wolc123]

2 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

Sounds like you just want a better way to kill more deer  besides a gun or a compound  bow so I am surprised you don't support things like airbow or big bore airguns having a special season  they don't make a loud sound like a gun   and have even better range   than a crossbow . 

 

 

Do you support full-inclusion of the crossbow in archery season ? 

[Bowshotmuzzleloader]

Storm you have over 70 posts in this thread maybe its time to get cable...

[Hunter007]

22 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

Do you support full-inclusion of the crossbow in archery season ? 

Yes only if they do this  1#  make it mandatory to take the archery course

 2#  add a  extra week for just vertical bows and allow airbows and big bore  airguns in the week before gun season  and a week after gun season.  And no restrictions on crossbow limbs .

Or I'm good the way it is now except they still need to make xbow take the archery course .

 

 

Edited April 15, 2018 by Storm914

[wolc123]

18 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

Yes only if they do this  1#  make it mandatory to take the archery course

 2#  add a  extra week for just vertical bows and allow airbows and big bore  airguns in the week before gun season  and a week after gun season.  And no restrictions on crossbow limbs .

Or I'm good the way it is now except they still need to make xbow take the archery course .

 

 

How much have you had to drink tonight ?

[Hunter007]

20 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

How much have you had to drink tonight ?

You like your ideas  I like mine . Mine would help get more hunters in the sport and doing more types of hunting. 

Plus I don't  like  having wide ass limbs on on my crossbows   if I can't use the crossbow I want full inclusion is worthless to me . 

May as well leave it the way it is .

Edited April 15, 2018 by Storm914

[Hunter007]

34 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

How much have you had to drink tonight ?

Get them to get rid of the limb restrictions first then ask me about full inclusion. 

[Bowshotmuzzleloader]

Your like a woman on the rag,, just don’t know when to quit....

[Hunter007]

6 minutes ago, Bowshotmuzzleloader said:

Your like a woman on the rag,, just don’t know when to quit....

That was my last post on this thread I think for a while 

[nyslowhand]

Hallelujah.....

[wolc123]

6 hours ago, Storm914 said:

That was my last post on this thread I think for a while 

1.) Have you voted in this poll ?  2.) If so, did you vote for or against full inclusion ?   When I asked you last night, if you supported full inclusion or not, I suspect that your reply may have been alcohol-induced because it was less than perfectly clear.   

Maybe after sobering up, you could attempt an answer to the two questions.  If not, as a supporter of full inclusion myself, I do appreciate your extensive contributions to this thread thus far.  If nothing else, your shear number of posts have brought the truth of the overwhelming support of the membership here back up to the top for all to see.   It looks like several opponents of full inclusion have given up this fight, after I pointed that out to them.  

One final question :  Would you mind if I called you "bumper914" ?        

Edited April 15, 2018 by wolc123

[chrisw]

1.) Have you voted in this poll ?  2.) If so, did you vote for or against full inclusion ?   When I asked you last night, if you supported full inclusion or not, I suspect that your reply may have been alcohol-induced because it was less than perfectly clear.   
Maybe after sobering up, you could attempt an answer to the two questions.  If not, as a supporter of full inclusion myself, I do appreciate your extensive contributions to this thread thus far.  If nothing else, your shear number of posts have brought the truth of the overwhelming support of the membership here back up to the top for all to see.   It looks like several opponents of full inclusion have given up this fight, after I pointed that out to them.  
One final question :  Would you mind if I called you "bumper914" ?        

I haven't given up, my vote is still a no... I just don't care to waste my time justifying my position to you. Put that vote in your diary.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

[Chevy]

I voted NO. Not looking to be bullied by wolc, but I want to explain that I was drawn to archery season many years ago because it required dedication to be proficient and successful unlike the gun season which can be a circus. I enjoy the gun season also, but want to keep the circus where it is. 

[Jdubs]

1 hour ago, wolc123 said:

1.) Have you voted in this poll ?  2.) If so, did you vote for or against full inclusion ?   When I asked you last night, if you supported full inclusion or not, I suspect that your reply may have been alcohol-induced because it was less than perfectly clear.   

Maybe after sobering up, you could attempt an answer to the two questions.  If not, as a supporter of full inclusion myself, I do appreciate your extensive contributions to this thread thus far.  If nothing else, your shear number of posts have brought the truth of the overwhelming support of the membership here back up to the top for all to see.   It looks like several opponents of full inclusion have given up this fight, after I pointed that out to them.  

One final question :  Would you mind if I called you "bumper914" ?        

For a guy who refuses to use a scale to validate the exaggerated weights of his deer harvests you post here, you really don't have any business belittling others or suggesting they are drunk just because they do not share your opinion on full inclusion.  

[wolc123]

33 minutes ago, Jdubs said:

For a guy who refuses to use a scale to validate the exaggerated weights of his deer harvests you post here, you really don't have any business belittling others or suggesting they are drunk just because they do not share your opinion on full inclusion.  

I am more interested in the volume of meat than the weight and the chest girth method gives me a closer estimate of that.  I will take a scale if someone gives it to me though.  I am not belittling he/she, I am just pointing out what may have influenced his/hers semi-incoherent posts.  I do appreciate your input though as a "bump" at least.  All can contribute to that regardless of their hunting experience.  It is good to have a little "rookie" representation.      

Edited April 15, 2018 by wolc123

[wolc123]

47 minutes ago, Chevy said:

I voted NO. Not looking to be bullied by wolc, but I want to explain that I was drawn to archery season many years ago because it required dedication to be proficient and successful unlike the gun season which can be a circus. I enjoy the gun season also, but want to keep the circus where it is. 

I was a little pissed that my new Chevy lacked a bumper when I had to pull it out of the snow a couple times this winter.  Thanks for yours.

[reeltime]

19 hours ago, wolc123 said:

I would be ok with the two weeks traditional but not the two weeks compound.  That should be in the same class as the crossbow since they are both "high-tech" and have comparable range and accuracy.   The biggest problem I have with this whole debate is the "compound-only" dudes selfishly trying to keep crossbows out, so they can have more "big-bucks" for themselves.   

compound only dudes are being selfish?  sounds to me as though the selfishness goes both ways.  you want to use the crossbow all season because you don't want to put the time in to use a vertical bow.

 

I want more time because I want to be able to use the crossbow to help control the deer population in the grossly overpopulated zone where I live (9F).  Right now, you can regularly see herds of 20 - 60 deer out in the fields.  I have to dodge them frequently with my car on the drive to and from work.  The DEC has been giving out lots DMP tags here for many years, but very few are filled because these deer go nocturnal soon after detecting a little hunting pressure.   If I could get out there starting on October 1, I think I would have little trouble filling all (5) of my antlerless tags.   In (4) seasons with the crossbow, I have not struggled to fill my buck tags, but have yet to have a single antlerless deer walk within my 50 yards range.   

deer go nocturnal as soon as they sense a little hunting pressure, and you "think" if you got out there oct. 1 you could fill doe tags???? so its everyone elses fault you cant get it done with a far superior weapon in 2 weeks. 

your 50 yard range??? so you think its perfectly acceptable to shoot 50 yards with a crossbow?   you are a walking, talking , typing example of the shooters the "elitists" as you call them so not want in the woods. you talk a big game about having respect for the animals and striving to take ethical quick kill shots but by your own admissions here you fling arrows and lead at deer at any range and or shot angle and then pray the shot lands true.  keep shooting at long distances with a crossbow and eventually your luck will run out.

 

I do not want this for selfish reasons.  In fact, I have probably benefited by the current restrictions.  I process my own deer and I would rather kill and process bucks than does.   Does always have a lot more fat to trim, and take me much longer to process for that reason.  Leaving this area infested with does, no doubt makes it easier to kill bucks here, after the rut kicks in and the crossbows are allowed.  It is selfish of me not to kill does, because that is the only way to get the deer numbers under control.  One look into the fields at dusk can show anyone that it is out of control here right now. 

You are right, I am ok with the way things are right now.  It is not all about me though.  I would like the crossbow to be legal when I could use it to help others, including mothers driving their kids back and forth to school, homeowners trying to grow gardens and landscaping around their houses, farmers trying to raise sweetcorn and pumpkins, and forest managers. 

grasping at straws as a reason...

I see the crossbow as the perfect weapon to do this job for two reasons: It is extremely accurate at close range, which minimizes the chances of wounding and not recovering the deer.  It is also silent, which makes it easier to fill multiple tags before other deer in the area are alerted to what is going on.   All other "legal" weapon types currently fall short in one or both of those areas. 

all? no the vertical bow is quieter and just as deadly at CLOSE range not flinging arrows or bolts 50 yards hoping and praying they hit their mark. success greatly depends on the effort a hunter puts into the "hunt" 

 

Allowing such an effective weapon to be used at the time when it could do the most good (before the "stink" of other hunters has turned the deer nocturnal), would greatly enhance the ability of the NY state DEC to mange the deer population.   Do you not wish to see them succeed ?

if you think the almighty crossbow is the answer to deer harvest management you really do have no clue about deer management tools.  firearms get the job done much more efficiently and at higher success rates, always has and always will. 

IT does NOT matter how many tags are issued, what weapons are allowed, how long the season is,,,,the bottom line is you can NOT control hunter access and no matter where in NY state there will always be parcels that people will not grant hunter access and it does not take deer long to figure out where those are.  you cant kill what you cant get at! once the season is over the filter back to their home range.

p.s, here is a tip for you which I hope you will find helpful and not offensive:  consider proof reading your posts and use the "edit" feature if necessary.  Others have pointed out, and I have also noted an unusual number of spelling errors, etc in your posts.   Do you use a "kindle" (whatever that is) ?  One other semi-departed forum member struggled mightily with one of those for a long time.    

 

[wolc123]

1 hour ago, reeltime said:

 

Welcome back to the fight.   Maybe Doc and Belo will be able to work up enough courage to get back into it also.  

[Hunter007]

4 hours ago, wolc123 said:

1.) Have you voted in this poll ?  2.) If so, did you vote for or against full inclusion ?   When I asked you last night, if you supported full inclusion or not, I suspect that your reply may have been alcohol-induced because it was less than perfectly clear.   

Maybe after sobering up, you could attempt an answer to the two questions.  If not, as a supporter of full inclusion myself, I do appreciate your extensive contributions to this thread thus far.  If nothing else, your shear number of posts have brought the truth of the overwhelming support of the membership here back up to the top for all to see.   It looks like several opponents of full inclusion have given up this fight, after I pointed that out to them.  

One final question :  Would you mind if I called you "bumper914" ?        

I Said I think it is best to have 2 season instead of one wolf .

I look at xbows as a whole different animal. 

But if they change it im not going to make a big deal out of it either .

Keep on fighting it's entertaining anyway lol 

You'd make a good snake oil salesman wolf .

Or I would allow it in areas that don't get hunted much .

 

Fine by me if they make it full inclusion in western ny .

If that helps you out wolf .

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 15, 2018 by Storm914

[Hunter007]

1 hour ago, reeltime said:

 

If its that bad in 9f i would be ok with it there just don't think it should be like that state wide

[airedale]

4 hours ago, wolc123 said:

It looks like several opponents of full inclusion have given up this fight, after I pointed that out to them.  

Silence Is An Argument Carried On By Other Means