NJ Bans Grouse Hunting

[Rattler]

I just read NJ has banned all Grouse hunting due to a decline in their numbers in the state.

Apparently the state's preference for old growth forests is the cause of the demise.  The state doesn't actively manage it's forest lands to better suit it's wildlife.  Grouse are best served by areas that have been logged, or are on edges of farmland.  Most of the NJ Grouse were in the young forest areas, but those areas have now become too old to support healthy Grouse populations.

I've taken many Grouse in that state over the years and find it sad the seasons are now closed.  The state doesn't seem to be pursuing any plan to fix this problem either.  Banning Grouse hunting isn't going to solve the problem, as Grouse hunters have very little effect on the population anyway.  The number of Grouse hunters in NJ has declined to nothing over the years too, as the birds have become few and far between.

I love Grouse hunting.  This revelation is depressing.

 

[Rattler]

Here's a story on it.....

 

https://www.ammoland.com/2019/07/new-jersey-cancels-grouse-hunting-season-for-foreseeable-future/#axzz5uJDP5KtK

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Not many around here anymore compared to years past. Maybe they should transplant some? At least they would have a chance and not be a waste of cash feeding Vermin with the dumping of Pheasant in Ny.


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[Rattler]

Here in Delaware County, their numbers go up and down in annual cycles.  Some years they're all over the place and a few years later they're scarce.  I often wonder if the coyote population affects their numbers much.  NJ now has a lot of coyote in the areas that used to have good grouse numbers.

[First-light]

I heard a lot of drumming the last few years in 8P. Sorry about that Rattler seems you have a passion for it.

[Merlot]

The aerial photos of property our Club members own in Wyoming Co., plus vast amounts of land surrounding us, post WW II was largely open field with some pockets of trees and brush. My understanding was the land was Ag land, to the extent that it was developed back then. Old timers remember hunting grouse quite successfully for years, then trees slowly took over and now the land is largely trees, with little habitat for grouse and poor habitat for deer and turkey. 

We have harvested mature trees in the recent past for the cash, but also to keep some balance with the tree growth, but not enough for favorable habitat, allowing grouse and deer to stick around.

Sorry to hear about NJ grouse situation. I like trees, but a proper thinning can help.  Agenda driven people will probably never allow tree harvests to help out wildlife. 

[Bigfoot 327]

Grouse need young forest habitat. DEC has a program called the "young forest initiative" that calls for maintaining 10% of wildlife management areas as young forest. For example, in the Connecticut Hill WMA about 13% of the habitat was classified as young forest in 1970. Today that number is more like 1 or 2%. The management plan calls for clear cutting about 178 acres a year for 10 years to return the young forest portion to 10%. The habitat management should help woodcock, grouse, and wild turkey. DEC has a section on their website regarding the young forest initiative that provides a wealth of knowledge.

 

[UpStateRedNeck]

9 minutes ago, Bigfoot 327 said:

Grouse need young forest habitat. DEC has a program called the "young forest initiative" that calls for maintaining 10% of wildlife management areas as young forest. For example, in the Connecticut Hill WMA about 13% of the habitat was classified as young forest in 1970. Today that number is more like 1 or 2%. The management plan calls for clear cutting about 178 acres a year for 10 years to return the young forest portion to 10%. The habitat management should help woodcock, grouse, and wild turkey. DEC has a section on their website regarding the young forest initiative that provides a wealth of knowledge.

 

They certainly did on the 5000 acres of land on the way in to my property.  They clear cut in a striped pattern in one side,  and thinned the crap out of the forest on the other side of the road.  It WAS nothing but 100 foot pines planted during the CCC.

[mowin]

I haven't seen one in probably 10 yrs in my area.  Used to be loaded with them

[jperch]

I imagine that habitat has much to do with the decline in grouse numbers.  This is in combination with the increase in the number of raptors.  Grouse must be relatively easy targets in open wooded areas as they walk along the forest floor.  Forty years ago it was not that common to see a hawk or owl.  Now as you drive down the road you see them everywhere sitting on telephone poles and old fence poles.  I think the predatory birds also have caused the bunny population to be only a fraction of what it used to be.  Maybe, overall, this is a sign of a healthier environment.  DDT took its toll back in the day.

[Rattler]

I can't help but notice we have far more coyotes, owls, raptors and eagles now, but far fewer grouse, rabbit, turkey and even deer in many areas.  Call me a tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist, but I cannot shake the idea this is part of a plan.  If natural predators can completely control the populations of game we now hunt, will the states start doing what NJ did and eventually eliminate all hunting?  If there is nothing to hunt, or the populations are so low hunting threatens them, it's easy for the totalitarians to say we don't need firearms at all anymore as well.  I know it sounds ridiculous today, but the anti-hunting and anti-gun folks are allies.  They are in this for the long haul and time is on their side.  They also don't care about individual rights, preferring to decide what individuals "need" in their opinion.

Maybe if I saw the states doing something to prevent this scenario, I wouldn't be worried.  But in many states, especially the "leftist progressive" one's, I see nothing that would improve recreational hunting opportunities and many things that hurt them.

[Bigfoot 327]

As I was walking my woods with a forester last May we happened to flush a grouse. A discussion on grouse populations followed. He offered that he didn't see near as many as he used to (he's been a forester for about 25 years). As he tours way more woods than I could ever hope to, I listened intently. He offered that much of the decline was do to development and maturing habitat. He also said that grouse were susceptible to West Nile Virus (which is carried by many of our crows). Don't know if that is true or not, but it certainly makes me wonder.

[G-Man]

I have been doing Aspen management on my place for 5 years now , grouse and woodcock numbers are both up because of it. So many times I hear the same I dont see numbers of game I use to.. hunted same spot for 30 years!  Woods mature it affects all game , grouse is a 1st phase sucessional woodland game bird if you dont have the habitat you dont have the game it's pretty simple

[Rattler]

Habitat is priority one, but even in areas with great habitat, grouse numbers are declining.

[rachunter]

49 minutes ago, Rattler said:

I can't help but notice we have far more coyotes, owls, raptors and eagles now, but far fewer grouse, rabbit, turkey and even deer in many areas.  Call me a tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist, but I cannot shake the idea this is part of a plan.  If natural predators can completely control the populations of game we now hunt, will the states start doing what NJ did and eventually eliminate all hunting?  If there is nothing to hunt, or the populations are so low hunting threatens them, it's easy for the totalitarians to say we don't need firearms at all anymore as well.  I know it sounds ridiculous today, but the anti-hunting and anti-gun folks are allies.  They are in this for the long haul and time is on their side.  They also don't care about individual rights, preferring to decide what individuals "need" in their opinion.

Maybe if I saw the states doing something to prevent this scenario, I wouldn't be worried.  But in many states, especially the "leftist progressive" one's, I see nothing that would improve recreational hunting opportunities and many things that hurt them.

It seems everyone turns a blind eye to the over population of owl,raptors and eagles and dumps it on the canines and crows.Nesting season is in full swing here on long island with baby birds everywhere I can say I watch more redtails and other raptors picking off fledglings then crows.

[Rattler]

Crows do damage, but more to the eggs in the nest I believe.

[left field]

36 minutes ago, G-Man said:

I have been doing Aspen management on my place for 5 years now , grouse and woodcock numbers are both up because of it. So many times I hear the same I dont see numbers of game I use to.. hunted same spot for 30 years!  Woods mature it affects all game , grouse is a 1st phase sucessional woodland game bird if you dont have the habitat you dont have the game it's pretty simple

Can you go over what you did or are doing? 

Thanks. 

[G-Man]

18 minutes ago, left field said:

Can you go over what you did or are doing? 

Thanks. 

Clear cutting Aspen patches that are over 20ft tall at.ground level so they resprout from roots is biggest part.as well a s feathering edges of mature hardwoods. Aspen is primarily the main food for grouse in the form of buds in winter and catkins in spring the 2 deciding hard time for food for them

The dec put on a good seminar in hanging bog on it a few years ago my brother and I attended. Bonus is young Aspen is also a preferred food of deer.

[ATbuckhunter]

All they need to do is think out the mature hardoods to allow for regeneration and then we have a boom of all wildlife species. I wish they would do that in the catskills to improve the grouse and deer numbers. Its really not that hard, but theres a lot of bureaucracy behind it. I always wanted to go grouse hunting, but I don't know where they have good populations to try it. 

[Jeremy K]

We have had the same one in cuba for last few years , he always gets my attention every time i walk past the same spot ,even when im ready for it. 

[left field]

1 hour ago, G-Man said:

Clear cutting Aspen patches that are over 20ft tall at.ground level so they resprout from roots is biggest part.as well a s feathering edges of mature hardwoods. Aspen is primarily the main food for grouse in the form of buds in winter and catkins in spring the 2 deciding hard time for food for them

The dec put on a good seminar in hanging bog on it a few years ago my brother and I attended. Bonus is young Aspen is also a preferred food of deer.

Thanks. I’m in the process of doing the same to an acre or two of aspen and beech. There’s a part that a little boggy do I’m hoping it attracts woodcock. 

Did you fully clear cut or leave a few trees. As near as I can tell they recommend leaving six stems per acre. What did you do with the brush and downed trees? I’m doing this by hand so please don’t say “bulldozed into a corner”. 

[G-Man]

6 hours ago, left field said:

Thanks. I’m in the process of doing the same to an acre or two of aspen and beech. There’s a part that a little boggy do I’m hoping it attracts woodcock. 

Did you fully clear cut or leave a few trees. As near as I can tell they recommend leaving six stems per acre. What did you do with the brush and downed trees? I’m doing this by hand so please don’t say “bulldozed into a corner”. 

I cleared and left trees where they landed they rot very fast and OYSTER mushrooms grow readily on them 

[Pygmy]

There are three major factors in grouse, pheasant and rabbit populations....Cover, cover, and cover....

Given favorable nesting and escape cover, they can hold their own against predators...

In my area of southwestern NY in the 50s and 60s, there were tons of  former small farms that were abandoned and growing up tp brush and scrub....Most of that is either developed or ( more likely) matured into forest land....Not good for small game, other than squirrels, and to a lesser extent turkeys....We certainly have no shortage of squirrels..

[G-Man]

10 hours ago, rachunter said:

It seems everyone turns a blind eye to the over population of owl,raptors and eagles and dumps it on the canines and crows.Nesting season is in full swing here on long island with baby birds everywhere I can say I watch more redtails and other raptors picking off fledglings then crows.

If your cover is thick enough Raptors do not stand a chance for grouse have the advantage. 

[Doewhacker]

Raptors are the number one predator of grouse. 

Some studies show that coyote help by way of controlling the other small predators. 

Aspen is a small part of what they feed on, more important in winter. They also do better in areas with deeper snow cover when they can tunnel down to feed safely. 

Proper cover is key. 

Ny and Nj will never improve because of forever wild.