Encounter with a neighbor today

[Don_C]

Just spoke with the ECO. He said no laws were broken from the DEC standpoint but he advised to call 911 immediately if the guy is even the slightest bit aggressive or threatening at our next encounter. The State Police will be there quickly he said. That is not a ECO matter.

He then explained in detail how to post the property correctly so they can be charged even if they trespass, and to call him immediately if we have pics or catch of him or his son taking any game across the line, or even trespassing if we wanted to go that far.

Nothing illegal about having a gun on you in the woods at any time in NYS for those who are using the term brandishing. Acting in a threatening manner is another story he said.

So this is a wrap for now, going to finish posting this weekend and hope for the best, but will be very clear about respecting the lines when I see him next



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[Don_C]

27 minutes ago, crappyice said:

Sorry if I ruin the surprise but I have been threatened by Sweet Old Bill that my name will he used....Tool



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My vote is he goes back to Sweet Old Bill.

[ncountry]

1 hour ago, Don_C said:

My vote is he goes back to Sweet Old Bill.

I concur. This name swapping is a bunch of.. bs.. maybe fun for some...I must have missed the initial point, seems pretty immature for adults?

[ATbuckhunter]

2 minutes ago, ncountry said:

I concur. This name swapping is a bunch of.. bs.. maybe fun for some...I must have missed the initial point, seems pretty immature for adults?

It was funny for a couple days, then it got annoying. Its hard enough to keep trackof people when they dont swap their names, let alone when they do

[Chef]

It was funny for a couple days, then it got annoying. Its hard enough to keep trackof people when they dont swap their names, let alone when they do

I agree I made the initial swap and then realized I couldn’t change back for 30 days... I’m happy to be chef again


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[ATbuckhunter]

2 minutes ago, Chef said:

I agree I made the initial swap and then realized I couldn’t change back for 30 days... I’m happy to be chef again


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When I saw you were back to chef i thought to my self "finally" lol

[First-light]

You will learn a lot this bow season. You will adjust stands. They didn't put those box stands in that place for no reason. There are deer moving in that area and you might want to move a stand or two over there. If you do they need to know not to shoot in that direction. Can't trust people and I guarantee they shoot onto your property. They also will trespass after they pattern you. Get some trail cams up high so they don't notice. The last thing I can say if this guy is really a jerk he will make bow season a headache for you. Cutting wood, sighting in guns and riding quads early morning or late afternoon. Nothing illegal but as hunters we wouldn't do this to our neighbors.  He doesn't want you shooting a big buck or bear before gun season. That is worst case scenario. It could all work out and he becomes a good friend. He just didn't start it off in the right direction. Sorry I don't remember if you exchanged cell numbers? All my neighbors have each others number to call and get the ok to track animals. 

[ADK Native]

On 9/7/2019 at 4:47 PM, Don_C said:

“I brought this in case I ran into any trouble” and looked at his 22 rifle. I knew what he meant.

Was he on your property?  If yes, then he should be aware that under the new red flag law his ability to posses firearms is in jeopardy with his first brandishing (See 2.(D) from NYS Red Flag law below) a firearm on your property with the threat if "he ran into any trouble" (See 2.(A) from NYS Red Flag law below)?  Trouble on property he was technically trespassing on?

New York States Red Flag states:

2.  IN  DETERMINING  WHETHER  GROUNDS  FOR  A  TEMPORARY  EXTREME RISK PROTECTION ORDER EXIST, THE COURT SHALL CONSIDER  ANY  RELEVANT  FACTORS INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE FOLLOWING ACTS OF THE RESPONDENT:

  (A)  A THREAT OR ACT OF VIOLENCE OR USE OF PHYSICAL FORCE DIRECTED TOWARD SELF, THE PETITIONER, OR ANOTHER PERSON;

  (B) A VIOLATION OR ALLEGED VIOLATION OF AN ORDER OF PROTECTION;

  (C) ANY PENDING CHARGE OR CONVICTION FOR AN OFFENSE INVOLVING THE USE OF A WEAPON;

  (D)  THE RECKLESS USE, DISPLAY OR BRANDISHING OF A FIREARM, RIFLE OR SHOTGUN;

  (E) ANY HISTORY OF A VIOLATION OF AN EXTREME RISK PROTECTION ORDER;

  (F) EVIDENCE OF RECENT OR ONGOING ABUSE OF CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES OR ALCOHOL; OR

  (G)  EVIDENCE OF RECENT  ACQUISITION OF A FIREARM, RIFLE, SHOTGUN OR OTHER DEADLY WEAPON OR DANGEROUS INSTRUMENT, OR ANY AMMUNITION THEREFOR.

 

[Four Season Whitetail's]

You probably won't have much of an issue with him any longer. All this pushing and shoving will turn him/them into night hunters. If game is heavy there they will do whatever it takes.


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[turkeyfeathers]

2 hours ago, ATbuckhunter said:

It was funny for a couple days, then it got annoying. Its hard enough to keep trackof people when they dont swap their names, let alone when they do

You change your name , I don’t recognize that name posting , no birthday thread started by me 

[Five Seasons]

16 hours ago, Don_C said:

I'm glad you looked at it from that perspective. I did have the lease scanned and on my phone. I'm going to print and carry the page that states: NO OTHER PERSONS SHALL HAVE THE RIGHT TO USE OR OCCUPY THESE PREMISES UNLESS:... I really think i'm going to try to reason with him and maybe even be able to leverage the lease as the "bad guy".

point of it is this. if you wanted to enforce trespassing laws, or take action related to him for illegally accessing the land, it would need to be the timber company. Him threatening you is a you vs him legal issue for sure. But him encroaching on private property, even if leased has to be dealt with by the land owner. Now I'm not a property lawyer so I could be wrong, but I'm 90% sure that's how it works. Again the DEC should give better advice. 

[Five Seasons]

13 hours ago, ncountry said:

I concur. This name swapping is a bunch of.. bs.. maybe fun for some...I must have missed the initial point, seems pretty immature for adults?

it was really just one guy who did it a lot. and then summer bordum. 

you guys don't swap as adults? 

[Jeremy K]

18 minutes ago, Belo said:

it was really just one guy who did it a lot. and then summer bordum. 

you guys don't swap as adults? 

Ya,but we use the same names ...

[Nomad]

  Changed my name , and opened up a BELO store ! 

[Eric J]

16 hours ago, Don_C said:

Just spoke with the ECO. He said no laws were broken from the DEC standpoint but he advised to call 911 immediately if the guy is even the slightest bit aggressive or threatening at our next encounter. The State Police will be there quickly he said. That is not a ECO matter.

He then explained in detail how to post the property correctly so they can be charged even if they trespass, and to call him immediately if we have pics or catch of him or his son taking any game across the line, or even trespassing if we wanted to go that far.

Nothing illegal about having a gun on you in the woods at any time in NYS for those who are using the term brandishing. Acting in a threatening manner is another story he said.

So this is a wrap for now, going to finish posting this weekend and hope for the best, but will be very clear about respecting the lines when I see him next



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Set up concealed Cameras..... I bet this guy will try and remove your posted signs....  And... put a camera On the Camera!  lol

[johnplav]

Definitely post the property... but you can also do this:

Q. Must I post to keep people off my property?

A. No. Trespassing is illegal even on unposted property. Instead of posting, a landowner or other authorized person may issue written notice to another informing them that they are prohibited from a property. The notice must contain a description of the property, what restrictions apply (hunting, fishing, trapping) and the person or persons prohibited from entry. It should be delivered by certified mail or other processes to prove that the person was served. At any time, anyone asked to leave the premises, posted or not, by the landowner, occupant or other authorized person, must do so immediately.

 

 

[Don_C]

51 minutes ago, Belo said:

point of it is this. if you wanted to enforce trespassing laws, or take action related to him for illegally accessing the land, it would need to be the timber company. Him threatening you is a you vs him legal issue for sure. But him encroaching on private property, even if leased has to be dealt with by the land owner. Now I'm not a property lawyer so I could be wrong, but I'm 90% sure that's how it works. Again the DEC should give better advice. 

As a a person leasing the property it is permissible to post property and report trespassers. (This is no different than a person breaking into an apartment you lease is what I understand.) It is then a DEC matter, if the property is posted properly they will charge the individual. This is according to the officer I spoke with yesterday. He was very clear on how I need to post it in order to have anyone charged. Now, we all know LEOs are not lawyers, but I do know as someone who has leased in the past, it is within your rights to post and report trespassers.

[left field]

Can someone clarify the role of the DEC vs local LEO when it comes to trespassing? Assuming no firearm/threat involved, but repeated trespassing, DEC or LEO?

Edited September 10, 2019 by left field

[Don_C]

4 minutes ago, johnplav said:

Definitely post the property... but you can also do this:

Q. Must I post to keep people off my property?

A. No. Trespassing is illegal even on unposted property. Instead of posting, a landowner or other authorized person may issue written notice to another informing them that they are prohibited from a property. The notice must contain a description of the property, what restrictions apply (hunting, fishing, trapping) and the person or persons prohibited from entry. It should be delivered by certified mail or other processes to prove that the person was served. At any time, anyone asked to leave the premises, posted or not, by the landowner, occupant or other authorized person, must do so immediately.

 

 

Exactly, to say you can't enforce trespass laws as a lessee is just not true.  But, I'm done worrying about this,  we'll take it as it comes. He will pattern us and hunt around us, but we will catch him on camera.

 The ECO was informative and perhaps more importantly, I started the conversation with the authorities. He told me there are a lot of new leases in the area and this is a very common problem right now. Post it and call him immediately, they will charge them with trespassing if I want to. I will be calm but firm with him, if he is harassing or threatening in any way with a gun again, I will call the SP immediately. I have cameras all over, I will put more up this weekend near his access points/stands. I already informed him that there are cameras all over and we have plenty of pics of him and his son and friend. He was a bit surprised at that.

[Don_C]

10 minutes ago, left field said:

Can someone clarify the role of the DEC vs local LEO when it comes to trespassing? Assuming no firearm/threat involved, but repeated trespassing, DEC or LEO?

I think either can write a charge for trespassing, but the ECO was very clear that if we catch him, or have pics of him taking any game from the property or walking it with a gun or bow during any open season, ie hunting, to call HIM not the SP.

[left field]

That's what I thought. Just wasn't sure if the DEC could/would issue a general trespassing citation.

[Core]

17 hours ago, Don_C said:

Nothing illegal about having a gun on you in the woods at any time in NYS for those who are using the term brandishing. Acting in a threatening manner is another story he said.

I don't believe anybody here, including me, used the word brandishing because of him having a gun in the woods. We used it because of what he did with that gun; what he said. 

[Core]

20 minutes ago, Don_C said:

Exactly, to say you can't enforce trespass laws as a lessee is just not true.  But, I'm done worrying about this,  we'll take it as it comes. He will pattern us and hunt around us, but we will catch him on camera.

 The ECO was informative and perhaps more importantly, I started the conversation with the authorities. He told me there are a lot of new leases in the area and this is a very common problem right now. Post it and call him immediately, they will charge them with trespassing if I want to. I will be calm but firm with him, if he is harassing or threatening in any way with a gun again, I will call the SP immediately. I have cameras all over, I will put more up this weekend near his access points/stands. I already informed him that there are cameras all over and we have plenty of pics of him and his son and friend. He was a bit surprised at that.

Use the word "cellular camera" otherwise he will think he can just steal it and be done with it.

As for DEC I can't speak to what they can do, but the DEC officer who taught our bowhunting course made it clear that they are able to enforce all New York state laws, so they really have a wide berth to do whatever they want to.

[Don_C]

39 minutes ago, Core said:

Use the word "cellular camera" otherwise he will think he can just steal it and be done with it.

As for DEC I can't speak to what they can do, but the DEC officer who taught our bowhunting course made it clear that they are able to enforce all New York state laws, so they really have a wide berth to do whatever they want to.

I also remember the same thing from when I took one of my sons to his Hunter Ed class years ago. I thought he said they have the same authority as the State Police. I don't know one way or the other though.

[Five Seasons]

2 hours ago, Don_C said:

Exactly, to say you can't enforce trespass laws as a lessee is just not true.  But, I'm done worrying about this,  we'll take it as it comes. He will pattern us and hunt around us, but we will catch him on camera.

 The ECO was informative and perhaps more importantly, I started the conversation with the authorities. He told me there are a lot of new leases in the area and this is a very common problem right now. Post it and call him immediately, they will charge them with trespassing if I want to. I will be calm but firm with him, if he is harassing or threatening in any way with a gun again, I will call the SP immediately. I have cameras all over, I will put more up this weekend near his access points/stands. I already informed him that there are cameras all over and we have plenty of pics of him and his son and friend. He was a bit surprised at that.

i should clarify. Enforcing is different than a court battle. if it came to that.