Hunter007

On a scale of 1 to 10 how do you rate a 44 mag in a rifle as a good brush gun ?

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Hard to put a numerical number on something without a scale so I’ll make my own, 1) Being a BB gun and a 10) being a 35whelen I would rate the 44mag a 6. Ive killed deer with 44mag rifles and they all died. I like 44mag rifles a lot, I’ve acquired a small heard of them over the years. d69dddc1ffbceeb313f8d4a65d9f7578.jpg&key=8ff43fb5df2a0a772ed371a15fc23518cb67cd68943f7ed071dcef578f035164

 

 

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2 hours ago, steve863 said:

so why limit oneself to a pistol cartridge?  Makes very little sense to me.

Sometimes it is more about the gun itself than the cartridge. A light weight small frame lever action rifle with a 16 inch barrel is an easy carrying sweet fast handling weapon well suited for moderate range woods hunting and is all that is needed to do the job of killing a Deer. There is always a grin on my face when I pick up my little Marlin, it is a rifle that I just like in many different ways an in no way do I feel under gunned hunting with it.

As for the 44 mag cartridge yes it was originally developed for a handgun but I can assure you it is no slouch when it comes to killing Deer and fired out of a rifle it gains a bit more power. Most of the half dozen Deer I have killed with the 44 fell within a feet of where they were standing, one made a 50 yard sprint before piling up.

I have also killed 4 deer with a muzzleloader using the same 44 mag bullets in a sabot loaded to about the same power as a 44 mag cartridge weapon and again no problem dropping Deer.

Al

Edited by airedale
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There are scores of better cartridges out there why would one limit themselves to something like a .44 mag??  I would rate a .44 mag down near the bottom no higher than a 2.  If I choose a .30-06, .270, .308, etc. I could kill a deer at short range, long range and everything in between, so why limit oneself to a pistol cartridge?  Makes very little sense to me.


Why not, variety is the fun of it. Not to mention they make guns for pistol cartridges that they don’t make for the cartridges you mention.

A light short soft kicking 44mag is a dream to tote in the woods and kills deer plenty dead, so what’s not to like.


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22 minutes ago, airedale said:

Sometimes it is more about the gun itself than the cartridge. A light weight small frame lever action rifle with a 16 inch barrel is an easy carrying sweet fast handling weapon well suited for moderate range woods hunting and is all that is needed to do the job of killing a Deer. There is always a grin on my face when I pick up my little Marlin, it is a rifle that I just like in many different ways an in no way do I feel under gunned hunting with it.

As for the 44 mag cartridge yes it was originally developed for a handgun but I can assure you it is no slouch when it comes to killing Deer and fired out of a rifle it gains a bit more power. Most of the half dozen Deer I have killed with the 44 fell within a feet of where they were standing, one made a 50 yard sprint before piling up.

I have also killed 4 deer with a muzzleloader using the same 44 mag bullets in a sabot loaded to about the same power as a 44 mag cartridge weapon and again no problem dropping Deer.

Al

Which brand of ammo do  you recommend for deer ?

I here good things about this stuff .

Buffalo Bore Ammunition 44 Remington Magnum +P 240 Grain Lead Soft Cast Hollow Point Gas Check Deer Grenade Box of 20

Personally I'm in the a  good shot kills deer camp .  More power is always better  if you can get it in what you want to buy of course .

I mean I would go 30-06  if they  had it in the 16 inch take down model but they don't..

Usally i see deer at close range when I see them like 50 60 yards anyway.  

 

Edited by Hunter007

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9 minutes ago, Hunter007 said:

Which brand of ammo do  you recommend for deer ?

I here good things about this stuff .

Buffalo Bore Ammunition 44 Remington Magnum +P 240 Grain Lead Soft Cast Hollow Point Gas Check Deer Grenade Box of 20

Personally I'm in the a  good shot kills deer camp .  More power is always better  if you can get it in what you want to buy of course .

I mean I would go 30-06  if they  had it in the 16 inch take down model but they don't..

Usally i see deer at close range when I see them like 50 60 yards anyway.  

 

Buffalo bore produces top shelf ammo. Pricey, but if you don’t  reload all the high quality 44 ammo is. 

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2 hours ago, Hunter007 said:

Which brand of ammo do  you recommend for deer ?

Just about every gun I have is fed ammo handloaded by me, my 44 rifle is sighted in with handloaded 300 gr Nosler HPs. So to be honest I really don't know enough about factory ammo to give an honest educated opinion. Factory ammo from any of the brand names firing a 240 gr Jacketed HP full power load should do a good job on Deer.

The load you have listed above may kill great but my experience with soft cast lead bullets fired at high velocity is that they will severely lead the barrel bad even with a gas check. It can be a lot or work getting the lead out especially if you do a lot of shooting.

Al 

Edited by airedale
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Deer are pretty easy to kill. As far as factory ammo these shoot best.out of my 3 handguns  in 44 mag. These are pretty hot . I dont shoot them much as I prefer to roll my  own these days. I am currently looking for a mold to cast hollow points  in the 250 grain area .

1410991528-9085-44-MAG-240-GR-XTP.jpg

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Is the question asking if the .44 mag round is a good brush cartridge, or if a rifle in it would be a good brush country rifle?

I have read many studies that emphasize that there is no such thing as a "brush buster", so as far as the .44 goes as a brush cartridge, one. Although the .44 like many cartridges is certainly capable of taking a deer, I choose a round that is designed for the purpose. I would say I typically hunt "brush" consistently, as my maximum clear shot in my woods is probably only about 40 yards. Not how far I can see, but how far a clear shot would average. My ideal brush gun for many years was my 18 1/2 " bbl .308.

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Which brand of ammo do  you recommend for deer ?
I here good things about this stuff .

Buffalo Bore Ammunition 44 Remington Magnum +P 240 Grain Lead Soft Cast Hollow Point Gas Check Deer Grenade Box of 20

Personally I'm in the a  good shot kills deer camp .  More power is always better  if you can get it in what you want to buy of course .
I mean I would go 30-06  if they  had it in the 16 inch take down model but they don't..
Usally i see deer at close range when I see them like 50 60 yards anyway.  
 

I have been disappointed in the Buffalo bore ammo I’ve tried always over rated for velocities.

Between my old man and brother I was around about 10 deer killed with Winchester white box and they performed as good as possible. Only reason I started reloading for the 44’s is because I only hunt with copper bullets now and Barnes load there 44 mags very light. c5de4e4249b8650af93a1bfd0d93abc0.jpg


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9 minutes ago, Daveboone said:

Is the question asking if the .44 mag round is a good brush cartridge, or if a rifle in it would be a good brush country rifle?

I have read many studies that emphasize that there is no such thing as a "brush buster", so as far as the .44 goes as a brush cartridge, one. Although the .44 like many cartridges is certainly capable of taking a deer, I choose a round that is designed for the purpose. I would say I typically hunt "brush" consistently, as my maximum clear shot in my woods is probably only about 40 yards. Not how far I can see, but how far a clear shot would average. My ideal brush gun for many years was my 18 1/2 " bbl .308.

Yea that is  What I mean  a  gun used in  thick woods where you can only see or get a clear shot at  30 40 50 60 yards at most .

Not that you would actually be shooting through brush  not a good idea with any caliber. 

 

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I have never killed a deer with a 44mag rifle. But I have killed 11 with a 44mag handgun. Including my only double kill at 60yds. The 2nd deer the 210gr hp went 2/3's of the way though that deer. The bullet hit the joint of the left leg travel though the chest cavity, liver and the stomach then exited in front of the right hip. Every deer I have shot with the 44mag has gone though the deer. I would give the 44mag a 8 out of 10. like others have said there is no such thing as a brush gun.

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5 hours ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

A light short soft kicking 44mag is a dream to tote in the woods and kills deer plenty dead, so what’s not to like.

 

Educate me...! ^^^ This sounds like an oxymoron. :scratchhead:Seems like a 44mag would have a very significant recoil and subsequent shots would be unlikely, although not impossible. Y-N? Would ammo loads compensate for this? You obviously have a substantial collection of long guns in a lot of different calibers, but would the 44mag be your 1st choice as a suggested deer rifle? Not criticizing, just wondering!!?!! Clearly a true brush rifle is a unicorn or myth!

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38 minutes ago, nyslowhand said:

. :scratchhead:Seems like a 44mag would have a very significant recoil and subsequent shots would be unlikely, although not impossible.

That is just the "Dirty Harry" syndrome.  In reality, the 44 mag is just a wimpy "pop-gun" when it comes to felt recoil and muzzle energy compared to almost any real "deer rifle" caliber.      

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3 hours ago, wolc123 said:

That is just the "Dirty Harry" syndrome.  In reality, the 44 mag is just a wimpy "pop-gun" when it comes to felt recoil and muzzle energy compared to almost any real "deer rifle" caliber.      

When you want a  short light  compact fast  follow up shot rifle 

Everything  becomes a  compromise  you go with a larger caliber bigger you get a heavier  gun that's going to kick more  be slower to get on target and slower to take a second shot . I have plenty of deer guns like that already  like to get something different. 

Deer rifle calibers  are designed for longer ranges 100 plus yards .

If you know that you are going to be  shooting  at deer at under 50 60 or less  yards  is that power difference really going to matter ? 

44 mag   out of a rifle   still has around 1000 foot pounds of energy  at 100 yards . 

That's around the same energy a slug  has at that distance and deer go down with them every year .

Btw   on wikipedia  it says 44 mag has been used to take even the largest of big game even a elephant at close ranges .  I think there are guys that hunt in Africa with them  out of a hand gun  just for the challenge of it,  if I'm not mistaken maybe dinsdale  knows about that .

I know I saw a interview with dan pena  the billionaire  he  said he used a hand gun on a Cape buffalo,  I think it was a 44 mag he used . 

 

 

 

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In truth, a "brush gun" is, by definition, a gun used in thick cover where shots are at close range.  It is NOT the mythical gun that can be expected to shoot bullets through "brush" and still hit the target.  If there is such a gun, it's a short barreled repeating shotgun using buckshot with lots of pellets in the round.

A gun used in thick cover is best when it handles quickly ( because deer often jump up fast), can provide fast follow up shots (because deer run as soon as they jump up) and has enough power to kill the animal being hunted.  If chambered for a "rifle" round, it must be a heavier gun.  That means slower handling.  Rifle rounds produce more recoil.  More recoil means slower follow up shots.  Rifle rounds have more than enough power.  That means most of the power is unnecessary.

Preferring to carry a bigger rifle chambered for a longer range cartridge will give the hunter a chance at deer farther away, but it compromises the hunter's chances at close range deer in thick cover.

Considering the fact an M1 Carbine makes a good "brush" gun for deer when shots are all going to be under 50 yards, and a lever gun in .357 magnum has proven to be quite adequate for short range deer hunting, it is only logical a repeating, carbine length .44 magnum would be a good choice for hunting deer in thick cover where shots will be at close range.  It handles quickly, provides fast follow up shots and has enough power to kill deer, especially when it shoots a 240 grain or larger bullet that has a large frontal area and high sectional density. 

(Sectional density (a bullet's weight in pounds divided by its diameter squared) describes a bullet's length for its diameter: The higher the number, the longer the bullet. Generally speaking, the larger a bullet's sectional density, the deeper it will penetrate.)

Therefore, IMHO, a "brush gun" in .44 magnum would be at the top of the scale specified by the OP.

 

 

 

Edited by Rattler
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Educate me...! ^^^ This sounds like an oxymoron. :scratchhead:Seems like a 44mag would have a very significant recoil and subsequent shots would be unlikely, although not impossible. Y-N? Would ammo loads compensate for this? You obviously have a substantial collection of long guns in a lot of different calibers, but would the 44mag be your 1st choice as a suggested deer rifle? Not criticizing, just wondering!!?!! Clearly a true brush rifle is a unicorn or myth!

The 44mag in a 5-6lb rifle has very little recoil.

Would it be my first choice as a suggested deer rifle? A lot depends, it would be on the short list for someone that wants a light short rifle, will never shoot over 100yds or someone who’s recoil sensitive.

A true brush rifle is anything but a unicorn or myth, everyone with a brain knows if a bullet hits brush it’s deflecting. Caliber makes very little difference on the amount of deflection distance between what the bullet hits and the animal is what makes the difference. A brush rifle is a gun that’s light and short so it’s easy to tote through the brush, quick to the shoulder, quick follow up shots in a caliper that’s has enough energy to make it into the vitals from other than perfect shot angles.

With that being said 44mag in a lever is an excellent choice for a brush gun, if I liked levers more I would probably carry one more often but I’ve tried them all and keep going back to my pumps.


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That is just the "Dirty Harry" syndrome.  In reality, the 44 mag is just a wimpy "pop-gun" when it comes to felt recoil and muzzle energy compared to almost any real "deer rifle" caliber.      

Wolcy stop, you’ve never shot a 44mag in a rifle and it makes you sound very ignorant.

 

 

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If its a short barrel I'd vote 10. It;s not the caliber that makes a good brush rifle but the total rifle length. And must be .30cal or larger. FT

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Just one more thump on this dead horse, it can not be understated enough the difference in velocity and power when a 44 mag cartridge is fired out of a 6 inch barreled revolver compared to being fired out of a rifle length barrel with no cylinder gap.

As much as 200 to 400 feet per second, that difference is huge and elevates the 44 mag ballistics to a whole different level. 

The difference between a 30-06 and a 300 Winchester mag  is about 300 to 400 fps.

Al

 

Edited by airedale
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46 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

https://www.n4lcd.com/calc/

Some of you will be surprised by the fact that the 44mag ranks higher than the lived 30-30, hey wild don’t you hunt with a 30-30?

I am glad to see that it kicks more than a 30/30, which I do hope to use for deer this year (if I can hold on to my buck tag until Thanksgiving).   Serious question for you: If you were walking to a spot to do some close-range "bush-hunting", and a big-body, heavy-rack buck appeared broadside across an open meadow, 175 yards away, and you had a good tree to lean on :    Would you prefer taking that shot with a Marlin 30/30 BL or a similar-sized lever-action chambered in .44 mag ?

Also, do you honestly feel that a 170 gr 30/30 would do a lesser job in the thick stuff, than a 44 mag ?   

What if we were talking about a .35 rem instead of a 30/30 (would that one have an edge over the 44 mag in either case ?).   

Finally, if you were way back in the bush and ran out of ammo, do you think it would be easier to find 30/30 or .44 mag at the local nearest store ?    

 

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There is no way I'd recommend it to anyone for ANY deer hunting situation in comparison to the scores of much better calibers available.  Plus, go to a Walmart or somewhere else if you were in a pinch for some extra hunting ammo for it.  Good luck.

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30 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

Serious question for you: If you were walking to a spot to do some close-range "bush-hunting", and a big-body, heavy-rack buck appeared broadside across an open meadow, 175 yards away, and you had a good tree to lean on : 

No problem as far as I am concerned as long as it was in an area I could legally take the shot, below are a couple of trajectory charts for 44 mag loads zeroed at 125 yds, one for the Hornady 225 gr. soft pointed 44 bullet, the other for the Hornady 300 gr. An easy shot with a capable rifle and if one can shoot.

2019-11-10_082420.png

2019-11-10_082555.png

Edited by airedale

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