Broad heads

[Doewhacker]

"First and foremost being that I can resharpen the Montecs. The other reason is because I can resharpen the Montecs"

LOL I like that one.

[Geno C]

Like i said i personally think people are who they are and use what they use due to lack of willingness to try something different. I get the keep it simple part but maybe ive never been affraid to make decissions based on my own field data, i make my own decissions based on what works for me. Not 10 guys who swear by mechanicals or fixed. Also bow and arrow combo is crutial to pass throughs along with bow poundage. So i cant make decisoons based on some guy who has a different setup then me also if he hit a deer n lost it who knows where he hit it and all the other info that goes along. Some guys see a thread of a guy shooting mechanicals looses his deer and say ehh they r crap. Without knowing anything else. Its monkey see monkey do

[WNYBuckHunter]

Like i said i personally think people are who they are and use what they use due to lack of willingness to try something different. I get the keep it simple part but maybe ive never been affraid to make decissions based on my own field data, i make my own decissions based on what works for me. Not 10 guys who swear by mechanicals or fixed. Also bow and arrow combo is crutial to pass throughs along with bow poundage. So i cant make decisoons based on some guy who has a different setup then me also if he hit a deer n lost it who knows where he hit it and all the other info that goes along. Some guys see a thread of a guy shooting mechanicals looses his deer and say ehh they r crap. Without knowing anything else. Its monkey see monkey do

Spoken like a true Rage fan.

BTW, just busting your chops. Thought Id bring a little Archerytalk flavor into this thread

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Geno...Have yo had a chance to see how they perform on bone?

[5.9cummins]

Spoken like a true Rage fan.

BTW, just busting your chops. Thought Id bring a little Archerytalk flavor into this thread

That's what i was thinking.

A broad-head thread that is civil, this does not feel right.

[UpStateRedNeck]

I shoot the Rage 2 blade, just like Geno. The 2 deer I've taken with the bow, neither have been pass throughs.

First was broadside, slightly quartering away, it went through the ribs, through the top of the heart, through the ribs on the other side, hit the leg bone and then fell out through assumedly the entrance wound 5 yards away, which was 1/2 the distance she made before lights out. When she stopped it looked like a faucet in her side.

Second was hard quartering away, through the top of her stomache, through the diaphram, through one of the main ventricles to her heart, out the front of her ribs into the front left leg. That one didn't come out, she ran maybe 15 yards. Got the arrow and guts out of her quick before any spoilage.

I think the main draw back to the rage seems to be re-use, and if they hit ANYTHING before the deer it's deployed and the arrow flight is screwed.

[TreeGuy]

Culver, to answer your original question, I have shot 3 with the 2 blade rages, one, the arrow broke 2 ribs and was laying on the ground right where I shot her, the other two were buried in the dirt.... so I have had 100% passthroughs. I was shooting a Mathews ultramax ( 325 fps ) goldtip 55/75's and 100 gr rage. No complaints yet !

[Red]

ive been using snyper 2 blade 100 grain but since theyve been bought out this year i tried the rage 2 blade 100 grain and this past sunday i got a double lung shot and the deer dropped on the spot. im now a fan of the rage 2 blade

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Nothing but stinger cut on contact for this guy!!! I have a swithback at 60lbs and have blown through many and this year i broke my collar bone on the 28th of sept and after a month it was for sure i was not using that bow. I went out and bought a little boys boy..A Sidekick.. I could only pull back 38lbs so thats what i went to the tier with. I was worried crapless about penatration if i got a chance at a buck.Well long story short i took that 198lbs 8pt and at 22yds with that stinger i got 6 inches of behind the shoulder meat with no pass through. Not a great bloodtrail with one hole but man did that 6in do some damadge on the inside.I guess low pound bows should shoot cut on contacts.Either way they have to be cut yur butt..SHARP!!!!

[NY-Archer]

This topic can be compared to a Holy War. Example: Palestinians and Israelis. The issue will never be resolved.

That's all I'll say.

Oh

and

one

last

thing.

I shoot 100gr Standard Slick Trick. Four blade broadhead.

The best dam broadheads on the market.

LMAO!!!

Go hunt everyone. Enjoy...

[Doc]

I was just wondering what you guys have seen on arrows not getting full penetration with your broadheads.

Over the years I have read a pile of articles on broadhead design and the one thing that I have not seen discussed here is something that all the broadhead articles of years past always emphasized. That is the angle of the cutting edge relative to the axis of the shaft. I recall reading articles over the years before mechanicals were even thought of that stressed some basic principles that seem to have been ditched along the way. And this idea of having a slicing angle rather than a "chopping" angle used to be one of the big items in broadhead design. I remember a lot of tests that attempted to get at the perfect cutting edge angle. Look at the deployed profile of some of these heads and it is obvious that they are going for the "chop" attack of the blade on the hide meat and bone. That can't be great for penetration.

Also today there seems to be an emphasis on cutting width. Some are close to ridiculous in that area. I suspect there is an optimum size for cut width that does adequate tissue and artery damage and yet considers the effect on penetration.

Another thing that was always big on broadhead design was the idea of cut-on-contact. Rather than trying to wedge the skin the hide apart to start the cut, it was always understood that slicing the skin was better for penetration. It takes more energy to pry the skin apart than it does to cut your way in. That lost energy relates to penetration.

Those basics were of most importance in the pre-mechanicals era. Logically, it seems that those principles are still valid because our intended end result is still the same.

And of course the energy lost deploying the blades cannot be ignored either. That is just one more piece of the puzzle.

However, there already has been mentioned the importance of striking the hide muscle and tissue with the arrow flying as perfectly co-axial as possible. Every degree or part of a degree that is not straight behind the broadhead is another impedance to penetration. Optimizing this feature involves bow tuning, arrow tuning for as near perfect arrow flight as possible. This is where the mechanicals can give an assist. Given some of the unpredictibility of hunting shots on arrow flight, it is important to get as much forgiveness in your shooting setup as possible. Eliminating the planing surfaces on the broadhead helps to compensate for some of the torqueing, clothing interferences, or just plain stance and drawing form errors that can happen during a heated bowhunting encounter. Let's face it, that is really the primary advantage that mechanical broadheads really have, but it is an valid advantage that might make the difference in point of impact and also co-axial flight both very important features that relate to penetration. So there is some justification for mechanicals.

However, the proof is in the pudding, and apparently some of these mechanicals are not abiding by the basics. One thing I have noticed on a lot of our Saturday morning deer hunting programs is more and more deer running away with most of the arrow sticking out of the near side. Somebody is not getting the penetration that we used to take for granted. So, all these heads are not created equal ..... obviously.

So there you are. There are pluses and minuses for the mechanicals. I suspect that the future of broadhead design still lies with the mechanicals. However I also believe that the ones that will do the best in the penetration department will be those that do not abandon history's basic design principles. Today the designs are all compromises of those things that the past has shown to be important to penetration. So, we have to sift through all the trade-offs and guess which ones are more important. Your guess is as good as mine as to the relative importance of each feature, but no discussion of broadhead design is complete without considering all these features.

[Geno C]

Spoken like a true Rage fan.

BTW, just busting your chops. Thought Id bring a little Archerytalk flavor into this thread

thanks WNY you have to take it there LOL, its all good. im not trying to tell you to shoot them and i have tried my share of heads and these i stuck with for 5 seasons now

[Geno C]

Geno...Have yo had a chance to see how they perform on bone?

i have shot 6 deer with them all pass throughs except my 7 point last year, 8 yard shot quatering away full penetration broke 2 ribs in like butter and the arrow stopped in the off shoulder. I have busted 2 ribs in 2 ribs out before. i never had a problem with lack of penetration. the only time i had an issue was when i shot one with my lighter arrow. my 400 grain setup is mint and smokes em. only thing is a spinning 2 blade might not hit the deer with the blades deployes horizontal all the time. i did have one where i shot a deer and it hit in the vertical position and slid between the ribs in and broke one rib out. Never had a problem with the blades breaking either. ill tell you those 2 blades put a hole in there that even god cant repair lol

[Geno C]

but like i said prior you have to shoot what works for you NOT what you read about. If you are comfortable shootin a fixed or mechanical then stick with it, you dont have to change. but if your the type that isnt quite happy with what you shoot then by all means experiment and see what you like. there are plenty of companies out there.

[chiefbkt]

I shoot Rage 2 blades with 350 grams arrow at 30" and 72 lbs. I have had a pass through on all the deer I've shot with exception of when it hits the opposite leg. I used to shoot 3 blade muzzys and never had an issue with them either. The key is finding the right combo of all the components and sticking with it.

[WNYBuckHunter]

thanks WNY you have to take it there LOL, its all good. im not trying to tell you to shoot them and i have tried my share of heads and these i stuck with for 5 seasons now

I know you arent.

[Meat Manager]

+1 on one piece montecs (keep em sharp).

Never lost a deer with a montec. Unfortunately I can't say the same about mechanicals.

[peas247]

2 blade rage...2 for 2 with in the last 2 years...the blood trails were ridicilous...before that was spitfire's...i have always shot mechanical...may not always get a pass thru, but i never had a problem with either...

[nybuckboy]

My son and I both use the 100 gr. G5 Montecs. Always get pass throughs. My son just killed his first buck almost 2 weeks ago. 15 yds, caught the liver and back of the left lung, exiting through the rib. Blood sprayed out both sides and he went 50 yds... wobbled back and forth then reared up and was dead. The blood trail was amazing.

I might add that both my son and I shoot 60 # draw bows. His arrows are 450 gr. total arrow weight with 14% FOC and mine are 465 gr. total arrow weight with 13% FOC.

I do believe a heavier arrow will help with pass thoughs using mechanicals.

Edited November 4, 2011 by nybuckboy

[Nomad]

I will only use cut on contacts. Pass through and 3 inches into the dirt, the one time I hit the off side shoulder the tip was sticking out throught he bone and hide.

I feel that with a double lung shot ( well non large bone hit), they just don't feel the hit. I'd say 75% or more of my bow kills drop insight often less then 30 yards, they seldom run at all .

Edited November 4, 2011 by Larry302

[jr.deerslayer]

Rage 2 blade, shot a doe last weekend. Arrow went in at steep angle went in above leg, exited in other leg, sunk arrow up to fletch. She ran 20 yards and you could fit soda bottle through entrance.

[Buckstopshere]

I have used Snuffers (cut on contact, three-blade) for many years after starting out with Bear Razorheads, Hilbre, Razorbacks, Satellites, Deadheads, Savoras (three and four-blade) Rocky Mts., Thunderheads, Muzzy, and I can't remember a few others...I've killed close to 100 deer with my bows (recurves, long bows, compounds.)

Now I shoot a Bowtech and my Easton Camshafts are 2413's tipped with the 150-grain Magnus (Used to be Rothhaar) Snuffer It is very lethal, but the heads need to be shaving sharp. No matter what head or setup you use, if your heads are not scary sharp, your effectiveness will diminish. I use a 10x4 DMT diamond whet stone to put a very sharp edge on all my heads. I obsess about the sharpness of my heads and touch them up all the time.

Many do not know how important it is to use a shaving sharp head and in my experience with my deer, and helping others track their deer...as much as placement, it is about the sharpness of the head.

[5.9cummins]

I use a 1200 grit diamond stone followed by some sharpening compound (you could shave with my broad-heads).

[orion]

125 gr steelhead. The only deer I didn't get a pass thru on was a fixed head. Unlike some that blame the broadhead I take full credit for bad placement. It hit the shoulder square and stopped!

[Sampson]

I used to use Muzzy's and they were good with alot of pass throughs. I switched this year to the T3s and shot a doe opening night that was a pass through as well. She only went 30 yards before piling up. Hard to say which is better. probably depends on the set up and shot placement (of course).