New riots in Rochester

[Northcountryman]

7 hours ago, Enigma said:

What's your definition of a "trained adult"? How many classes and seminars and college degrees does one require to be properly trained to manage a situation like this? Apparently none in your view. Please, tell us how you and your partner would have gotten her a little further into the car? Before you do though, let me give you my first hand example of a similar situation.

At one time my ex wife and I were foster parents. We attended classes (trained) for 12 weeks before being approved to take in children. We also had two children of our own. Once approved we fostered several different children ranging in age from infants to age 12 or so. Some individuals, some family groups. Some relatively easy to foster, some more difficult. We'd been foster parents for less than 6 months when CPS called and asked us to foster "A", a 7 yo boy. We agreed of course.

I won't get into all of the details but I will say this. "A" was a very disturbed young man and when he left us after a short stay it took FIVE "trained" adults over 4 hours to get "A" in the car for transport to the hospital. I repeat. FIVE adults. 4 hours. One 7 year old boy. One social worker, one police officer, two paramedics and one doctor. "A" threw himself out of a moving car suffering injuries, ran through town in traffic, severely injured the social worker's hand and violently kicked, screamed and resisted until finally being restrained (hands and feet) and sedated. A terrible, terrible episode for all involved, none more than "A". 

I'm sure those LEOs had "training" at some point in their career. Should they have broken out the training manual in the street and referred to the section on physically belligerent children before putting her in the car? Called a superior for permission before they sprayed her? I make no judgement on the actions of the officers in the video because I was not present that day. But to suggest that you, or anyone else with NO training whatsoever, when placed in the same scenario, would have managed the situation better is demeaning to the officers who responded that day. 

Correct , it’s overly judgemental and quite arrogant , I think . Granted , situation didn’t look good , but I would defer to OTHER TRAINED LEO PERSONNEL and their judgement of the situation before I would be proclaiming anything they did to be excessive . Moreover , I certainly wouldn’t be offering a description as to how I would have handled it better when I’m not even a cop!! 

[Northcountryman]

2 hours ago, diplomat019 said:

A trained adult in this situation is someone who has met all the standards to be a Rochester police officer.  
 

If you feel they had no other option but to pepper spray the girl while she was handcuffed in the back of the car then thats your position. Maybe you think that a handcuffed 9 year old is a serious threat. 

I could be wrong, but I dont think thats his point.  I think hes saying that unless youre a trained professional AND have been in a situation similar to this, you really cant be overly critical about the way they handled things until more is known about the incident.  This is not an absolute , of course; but I think that in this situation, specifically, in regards to the pepper spray thing, although it looks pretty bad ostensibly, theyre may be more to it than the video evidence demonstrates. If , at a later time, theyre offically censured by their peers and actually charged with some form of misconduct, then there you go: case closed.  They shouldnt have done it and so others judged that they easily could have done A and/or B as an alternative and should have known better. However, until then, keep an open mind!!

[Northcountryman]

1 hour ago, DoubleDose said:

Unfortunately, I feel this will be the norm until our political leaders in power (both sides) unequivocally condemn and bipartisan vocally and publicly support the forceful stopping of it, rather than being silent for the votes.

I liked everything you said in your previous post, but have to mildly disagree on one minor point: I truly feel that rioting and violence IS FULLY condemned---consistently and vociferously-- by the right ; the same cannot be said about the left, however.

 

[fasteddie]

It didn't take the mother very long to file a law suit . Who didn't know that was coming ! 

[virgil]

1 hour ago, Northcountryman said:

I liked everything you said in your previous post, but have to mildly disagree on one minor point: I truly feel that rioting and violence IS FULLY condemned---consistently and vociferously-- by the right ; the same cannot be said about the left, however.

 

During the siege on the capital, Trump addressed the rioters by telling them that they’re ‘special’ and ‘we love you’. 
After being savaged in the press and both parties, he condemned the attack. 

[9jNYstarkOH]

10 minutes ago, virgil said:

During the siege on the capital, Trump addressed the rioters by telling them that they’re ‘special’ and ‘we love you’. 
After being savaged in the press and both parties, he condemned the attack. 

 

[DoubleDose]

2 hours ago, DoubleDose said:

 Unfortunately, I feel this will be the norm until our political leaders in power (both sides) unequivocally condemn and bipartisan vocally and publicly support the forceful stopping of it, rather than being silent for the votes.

  

 

1 hour ago, Northcountryman said:

I liked everything you said in your previous post, but have to mildly disagree on one minor point: I truly feel that rioting and violence IS FULLY condemned---consistently and vociferously-- by the right ; the same cannot be said about the left, however.

 

No disagreement between us.  You point out one side being there already, I didn't imply they weren't.  I said "political leaders in power" which is the Dem/Left for Fed and State!  So I am calling them out for being partisan silent.  Rioting, arson, looting, and violence should never be a partisan political position of silence or acceptability on either side.  As long as BOTH sides don't condemn it, then it is acceptable behavior.  This should also be called exactly what it is, a riot, not a mostly peaceful protest, the line was crossed.  Let me use an analogy for our unethical dimwit politicians to get the point across.  A couple goes on a date.  Everything is amicable and leads to heavy foreplay.  Unfortunately, the date ends with a non-consensual violent rape.  Do we call this rape or a mostly peaceful date?!!!!

[Northcountryman]

40 minutes ago, virgil said:

During the siege on the capital, Trump addressed the rioters by telling them that they’re ‘special’ and ‘we love you’. 
After being savaged in the press and both parties, he condemned the attack. 

And, so whats your point?  

Note: He condemend the riots "immediately", unlike Biden and others who said nothing about the BLM/Antifa riots for months , UNTIL they became aware it was hurting them in the polls.

[Northcountryman]

23 minutes ago, DoubleDose said:

 

No disagreement between us.  You point out one side being there already, I didn't imply they weren't.  I said "political leaders in power" which is the Dem/Left for Fed and State!  So I am calling them out for being partisan silent.  Rioting, arson, looting, and violence should never be a partisan political position of silence or acceptability on either side.  As long as BOTH sides don't condemn it, then it is acceptable behavior.  This should also be called exactly what it is, a riot, not a mostly peaceful protest, the line was crossed.  Let me use an analogy for our unethical dimwit politicians to get the point across.  A couple goes on a date.  Everything is amicable and leads to heavy foreplay.  Unfortunately, the date ends with a non-consensual violent rape.  Do we call this rape or a mostly peaceful date?!!!!

Agreed--EXCELLENT analogy btw, very clear 

[Enigma]

6 hours ago, diplomat019 said:

A trained adult in this situation is someone who has met all the standards to be a Rochester police officer.  
 

If you feel they had no other option but to pepper spray the girl while she was handcuffed in the back of the car then thats your position. Maybe you think that a handcuffed 9 year old is a serious threat. 

That's not my position. Of course they had other options. They could have continued giving the girl commands to stop resisting, tried again to deescalate the situation and on and on. They also could have also pulled her out of the car, uncuffed her, dumped her in the snow in the street and left. I just don't judge a person's actions as right or wrong, whether they are trained or not, when they're placed in high intensity chaotic situations. I also don't criticize those simply trying to do their job, trying to actually HELP others when they are asked to do so, when they're put in a no win situation like this.

Your definition of "serious threat" is different than mine. A handcuffed 9 year old could easily be a serious threat and in this instance she was. She may not have been a major physical threat to the officers after being cuffed (your definition?) but she was still a mentally unstable danger and threat to herself! And if I recall correctly had physical threatened her mother (why LEO were called in the first place.) So at the time of the video she was without question a serious threat to herself and others. Did it warrant pepper spray, I don't know. Bottom line is the girl was eventually taken to the hospital, the threats to herself and others were defused and hopefully she continues to get the help she needs. 

And no, rioting is never acceptable. Don't sh!t where you eat. When is BLM going to put up their own cash to fund the social workers to prevent these situations in the future? I guess rioting is less expensive than hiring qualified people. 

[Grouse]

Critics of the police don't seem to realize where they are taking this.  Keep supporting the people who want to prevent police from doing their jobs, and when you need them, they will only show up to take a report or draw some chalk lines around your dead body.  

Meanwhile the same elected hacks that attack the police, will be making sure you lose your right to defend yourself.  What a lovely utopia that would be.

And don't start with the specifics of this case.  The police administrators should be able to decide what was right or wrong without any political or public pressure applied to their decision.  They are the experts with all the facts.  Anything else is political and will never be in the public's best interest.

What we need is a huge public education campaign that informs the public once and for all, once you are under arrest, you MUST comply with lawful orders.  PERIOD!  Don't agree with that?  Don't get arrested.

[diplomat019]

True patriots are not threatened by soy boys, antifa, snowflakes, beta cucks, or handcuffed girls......

[Grouse]

No, they're threatened by vengeful leftists, idiotic PC ideology and unconstitutional laws.

[Chef]

From someone that deals with individuals acting like this on a nearly daily basis I’ll say this.

Restraints and less than lethal force are for the officers safety and the offenders.

If the officers let her continue to flail and carry on in the car she could have hurt herself, or the cop car. A cop is completely justified in using less than lethal to help prevent either of those instances.

If she was trying to hurt the officers they were justified in using less than lethal force to prevent physical harm to themselves. A kick to the dink hurts no matter how old the person kicking is.

Its easy to Monday morning quarterback. Everyone that watched the nfc game last week was screaming at the tv when Rogers had the ball on 3rd and goal when he threw into double coverage instead of running it in. The difference is Rogers has practiced that moment for probably 35 years and still made the wrong decision.

The officer probably has minimal if any training in how to deal with a deranged 9yr old. It’s hard to imagine a need to pepper spray a 9yr old but none of us were there. If the cops pulled her from the car to protect her or the vehicle and used body holds many of you would be saying the same things about how an officer could use physical force on a 9yr old girl.

We put officers in shitty situations daily, its getting worse by the day. Many departments are grossly understaffed due to difficulties in recruiting. Honestly who in the hell wants to be a cop in today’s world. This causes many officers to work forced over time. I don’t know how many of you have worked multiple 60-80 hour work weeks back to back but I can promise you that your mental acuity isn’t there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As a chef a 60-80 hour week is standard. Trust me keeping track of orders and requests in a busy restaurant is very mentally draining. Come on man stop making excuses for this crap


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Grouse]

But nobody's video recording your mistakes and trying to get you put in jail for them.

[Northcountryman]

2 hours ago, diplomat019 said:

True patriots are not threatened by soy boys, antifa, snowflakes, beta cucks, or handcuffed girls......

What's a soy boy and a beta cuck??

[Northcountryman]

1 hour ago, Chef said:

As a chef a 60-80 hour week is standard. Trust me keeping track of orders and requests in a busy restaurant is very mentally draining. Come on man stop making excuses for this crap


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have absolutely no doubt youre job is stressful, but in no way is that kind of stress comparable to that faced by LEO responding to a domestic issue .  

[Northcountryman]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

But nobody's video recording your mistakes and trying to get you put in jail for them.

Unless hes spitting in their soup lol

[ApexerER]

2 minutes ago, Northcountryman said:

I have absolutely no doubt youre job is stressful, but in no way is that kind of stress comparable to that faced by LEO responding to a domestic issue .  

 

1 hour ago, Chef said:

As a chef a 60-80 hour week is standard. Trust me keeping track of orders and requests in a busy restaurant is very mentally draining. Come on man stop making excuses for this crap


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hmm, you worry about being shot, stabbed, kicked, burned, punched, spit on, verbally assaulted, rocks, bricks, and frozen water bottles thrown at you while cooking meal for your patrons?

[Northcountryman]

25 minutes ago, ApexerER said:

 

Hmm, you worry about being shot, stabbed, kicked, burned, punched, spit on, verbally assaulted, rocks, bricks, and frozen water bottles thrown at you while cooking meal for your patrons?

If he does, then I'd say he cooks for a pretty tough clientele !! lol

[DoubleDose]

1 hour ago, ApexerER said:

 

Hmm, you worry about being shot, stabbed, kicked, burned, punched, spit on, verbally assaulted, rocks, bricks, and frozen water bottles thrown at you while cooking meal for your patrons?

 

55 minutes ago, Northcountryman said:

If he does, then I'd say he cooks for a pretty tough clientele !! lol

Maybe he is being hired as caterer to a mostly peaceful protest with mostly peaceful protestors!!!!

[Buckmaster7600]

As a chef a 60-80 hour week is standard. Trust me keeping track of orders and requests in a busy restaurant is very mentally draining. Come on man stop making excuses for this crap

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lol, you’ve said some stupid shit but comparing cooking someone’s dinner to being a cop is pretty ignorant, even for you.

 

When those steaks start having the ability to kill you at any second and while your every move is being recorded and scrutinized by the mass’s come talk to me!

 

Until then stay in the kitchen big boy.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lucky118]

Roachchester needs a good match. Let it all burn. 

[9jNYstarkOH]

More body cam footage (do not listen to with kids around) mom should be jailed what a terrible situation.

 

[diplomat019]

Like grouse said.  This kid is trouble.  She deserved it all.  They should have tased her to really send the message home.