Running shots

[chrisw]

Enigma, I'm starting to think you work for PETA with all of those disparaging remarks about "most" hunters.  99% of hunters can't shoot well?  You even put the word "hunters" in quotes.  Once again, friendly fire.
I don't know where you hunt or who you hunt with, but I think you need to upgrade your hunting relationships.  The people I hunt with are all excellent shots and very successful deer, bear and coyote hunters.  The trophies on their wall attest to it.  Most are very good at turkey hunting too.  But I live in the mountains where these folks grew up shooting rifles at game.  I've been at it myself for 50 years now.  I can tell you this, most hunters around here can shoot well and few of them spend much time watching hunting on a computer.  We actually hunt in the field.
I guess your version is a sad reality where you're from, but it's not reality around here.  Being country has it's advantages.

I think you're looking to deep for something between the lines here... I don't see anything wrong with what he said. The word "hunters" were in quotes because that's not the definition to him. And I agree that there are a lot of hunters who have no regard for their limitations, the prize outweighs the risk. And people who show no regard for wounding animals are not "hunters" to me either. If you choose to live in a fantasy land where all hunters are stewards of the land and have respect for the animals and or conservation then that's your choice. There's a big difference between being "PETA" and being a realist.

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[dbHunterNY]

Rare occasion but I have in the past multiple times. Most are follow up shots when I hit the deer good with first but didn't go right down. Couple times I've had a buck chasing a doe and took first shot with it moving. Two of the best shots I've ever made was on a buck that I think was 3.5 yrs old. Full stride through the woods on doe. First one he kept running and the second one anchored him. After skinning him they were only 2 inches apart right behind the shoulder.

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[Grouse]

5 hours ago, chrisw said:

There's a big difference between being "PETA" and being a realist.

Is 99% a real number?  If so, which members on this board are not part of the group that can't shoot straight?  If that's realism, few are.

[Lucky118]

Running shots? The vast majority of deer hunters today have a hard time hitting a deer standing still and a slow trott will get them slinging lead all over the woods. Lol

[chrisw]

Is 99% a real number?  If so, which members on this board are not part of the group that can't shoot straight?  If that's realism, few are.

The point was, not everyone raised in the country is a good hunter/better hunter blah blah. Every person on here most likely knows several slob hunters who wound several deer/animals every year. A "wall full of trophies" as you say also is not an indication of a good or true woodsman either. Are there people on this site who wound several deer every year, I all but guarantee it. Are all of the members on this site law abiding or honest? I guarantee not. Are there members here that are lousy shots? I'm sure of it. I'm not generalizing an entire class of hunter but I'm also not naive about it either. Is the 99% figure a bit high? Yes. I'd like to hold hunters in as high regard as my passion for hunting also but it's not reality.

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[Grouse]

Well, with hunters supplying that kind of testimony to the anti's on a hunting site, the anti's won't have much trouble gaining evidence convincing the non-hunting masses we're mostly a bunch of worthless sub-humans that should be purged from the woods.

If that is the reality of the America hunting population, American hunting is doomed.  Sad.

[chrisw]

Well, with hunters supplying that kind of testimony to the anti's on a hunting site, the anti's won't have much trouble gaining evidence convincing the non-hunting masses we're mostly a bunch of worthless sub-humans that should be purged from the woods.
If that is the reality of the America hunting population, American hunting is doomed.  Sad.

"Mostly" is not accurate either. Are there sub humans out hunting? Absolutely. Are there sub humans occupying every aspect of our lives? Absolutely. Anti's aren't gaining anything from anything that was said, the sky isn't falling. Anti's aren't the greatest threat to hunting, they've always been around, always will be. The enemy is technology/social media, a lack of heritage/tradition/family bonds/culture etc (IMO)...

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[G-Man]

I have video that teaches you how to take running shots and how to practice taking them with BOW!! and another with gun. 

It's not hard just takes some practice. People have come to despise the thought of it coming it unethical but think nothing of flushing grouse, shooting ducks, geese, rabbit , ect..  yes they use brid shot , but the principals are the same you still have to be on target and birds fly much faster and are much smaller than a deer..  

If you care to try it with a bow it's a blast.. simply put a Ballon in center of a tire and roll it , close range moving shots become second nature ,instinctive. 

With gun you need pit more equipment , a couple of pulls a weed Wacker and fish line ,a weight and balloon,  the weed Wacker powers a pull loop of fish line that you hang a drop line and balloon off of, speeds of 50 mph can be achieved ( male sure you have an ample back  stop ( side of a hill or gravel pit )  again practice makes perfect.  

[wolc123]

54 minutes ago, G-Man said:

I have video that teaches you how to take running shots and how to practice taking them with BOW!! and another with gun. 

It's not hard just takes some practice. People have come to despise the thought of it coming it unethical but think nothing of flushing grouse, shooting ducks, geese, rabbit , ect..  yes they use brid shot , but the principals are the same you still have to be on target and birds fly much faster and are much smaller than a deer..  

If you care to try it with a bow it's a blast.. simply put a Ballon in center of a tire and roll it , close range moving shots become second nature ,instinctive. 

With gun you need pit more equipment , a couple of pulls a weed Wacker and fish line ,a weight and balloon,  the weed Wacker powers a pull loop of fish line that you hang a drop line and balloon off of, speeds of 50 mph can be achieved ( male sure you have an ample back  stop ( side of a hill or gravel pit )  again practice makes perfect.  

Sounds like a lot of work, and expense.  Why not just suspend a beer can by the tab from a tree limb with a length of wire and cut it in half with an adult-stocked Daisy red Ryder ?

Wind and previous bb impacts provide plenty of motion for the can.  The target gets smaller and more challenging as the bottom half of the can hangs from a small remaining shard of aluminum. Cutting off the tab with bb's, and dropping the upper half, is an even greater challenge.

Aside from the trouble, time and money savings, other advantages of this method is that it is silent, so you can do it off your back porch and not disturb neighbors, family in the house,  or bow hunters out in the woods.

Folks who practice during archery season with real live ammo are not only needlessly wasting lots of money, but they are also demonstrating a lack of respect for those folks.  How would you like it you were up in a stand waiting on that elusive trophy and your neighbors were out popping balloons with thier rifles and slug guns ?

"Legal live targets" is another option:

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by wolc123

[G-Man]

1 hour ago, wolc123 said:

Sounds like a lot of work, and expense.  Why not just suspend a beer can by the tab from a tree limb with a length of wire and cut it in half with an adult-stocked Daisy red Ryder ?

Wind and previous bb impacts provide plenty of motion for the can.  The target gets smaller and more challenging as the bottom half of the can hangs from a small remaining shard of aluminum. Cutting off the tab with bb's, and dropping the upper half, is an even greater challenge.

Aside from the trouble, time and money savings, other advantages of this method is that it is silent, so you can do it off your back porch and not disturb neighbors, family in the house,  or bow hunters out in the woods.

Folks who practice during archery season with real live ammo are not only needlessly wasting lots of money, but they are also demonstrating a lack of respect for those folks.  How would you like it you were up in a stand waiting on that elusive trophy and your neighbors were out popping balloons with thier rifles and slug guns ?

"Legal live targets" is another option:

 

Most people have all that's required so no real expense. I've done the balloon in a tire with BOW.  Its fun and.you learn to lead pretty quick.  Imo it should be added to all 3d shoots.( would put a lot of target shooters egos back in place) 

[ncountry]

24 minutes ago, G-Man said:

Most people have all that's required so no real expense. I've done the balloon in a tire with BOW.  Its fun and.you learn to lead pretty quick.  Imo it should be added to all 3d shoots.( would put a lot of target shooters egos back in place) 

It is a lot of fun and will really surprise you how far off you can be even when the target is moving slowly.

We took an old push mower, removed the motor and mounted a foam deer target on it. (Really nice to move around the yard, practicing different shot angles and distances.  

We also would hook a long rope to it and take turns hiding around the corner of a building and pulling it across the yard..

[Nomad]

“ running shots “ that’s a meaningless phrase . How far ? 200 yards ? , 20 ? 2?  Like many older guys here ,we drove everyday ,miles of farmland very successfully , if you know your land you can place the watchers to exact trees . Couple times I took  new guys who’d doubt where I placed them , then they’d drop a buck at 10 yards as he ran by . 
 

The last weekend of gun we ( 2 sometimes 3 of us )will still  push a couple spots , new guy last year( 20 year break from hunting )  , I had a stick stuck in the ground where he should stand in the field ,and told him they would run across 10-15 yards West of him , few minutes ,later he had a doe down .

[Enigma]

Regarding the article in the OP's original post, see the part where all of the hunters were required to demonstrate a very high proficiency in making running shots on game before the hunt master would allow them to participate. Ponder that fact for a moment and then ask yourself when was the last time you had to pass a shooting test to hunt game in the US? Quite likely never. My point is, that type of hunt (driven game) requires a much higher skill set than the average hunter in North America today possesses. I'm not discounting the notion that there are those that hunt amongst us today that have those skills, only that they are very few and far between and most definitely a minority.

I'll admit my figure of "99%" of hunters not being able to shoot worth a damn was exaggerated. I regret adding that hyperbole to this discussion. That being said I stand by my opinion that a majority of folks going afield today have absolutely no business shooting at running deer. They are held to no or very low standards and are actually encouraged by our present society to kill that big buck by whatever means necessary. This scenario presents a poor image of hunters to the non-hunting public and does nothing to help keep our sport alive.

[Enigma]

I don't care what game you hunt or what implement you use as long as it's legal. I do however get pissed when those "hunters" among us publicly condone hunting behavior that ends up reflecting poorly on me by association and makes it more difficult to enjoy my time outdoors.

I have absolutely no qualms shooting at slow moving deer with a firearm. I've killed many deer while they were up and moving after being nudged by a drive and I'll admit is it damn exciting and a great way to increase your chances of killing some venison! And I miss it! But we need to be specific how we define this practice. There is a big difference between slamming a big old doe with one shot from a shotgun or rifle at 50 yds, as she's leading a group through the woods on trot, after being nudged by your hunting partners; versus cutting loose and emptying your gun at a deer 200yds away hauling ass across an open field while being chased by some dude on a four wheeler. There are big differences between those two examples. The first example is acceptable to me, the second not at all. I don't think this view differs much from most of those that frequent this site. I could be wrong, but I hope that's not the case.

[G-Man]

2 minutes ago, Enigma said:

I don't care what game you hunt or what implement you use as long as it's legal. I do however get pissed when those "hunters" among us publicly condone hunting behavior that ends up reflecting poorly on me by association and makes it more difficult to enjoy my time outdoors.

I have absolutely no qualms shooting at slow moving deer with a firearm. I've killed many deer while they were up and moving after being nudged by a drive and I'll admit is it damn exciting and a great way to increase your chances of killing some venison! And I miss it! But we need to be specific how we define this practice. There is a big difference between slamming a big old doe with one shot from a shotgun or rifle at 50 yds, as she's leading a group through the woods on trot, after being nudged by your hunting partners; versus cutting loose and emptying your gun at a deer 200yds away hauling ass across an open field while being chased by some dude on a four wheeler. There are big differences between those two examples. The first example is acceptable to me, the second not at all. I don't think this view differs much from most of those that frequent this site. I could be wrong, but I hope that's not the case.

I agree hunting to me has always been a close range sport using.skills and knowledge to get.close.to game, hard to miss at 10 yards ,I never claim to be a great shot but I can get set up close to game and take it. Same with running shots close is fine ,further is just something to watch.  

The problem with the internet is its hard to convey exactly what is meant and much is left up to interpretation.. 

[Grouse]

I agree a running shot at long range is not a good idea and many cannot do it.  I also am against standing shots at long range, because many cannot do that either.  Besides, that opportunity may allow a hunter to get closer.  However, I see an awful lot of long range shooting being discussed these days on TV and online and find many think that is fine.  It's fine if the hunter has the skill to do it.  Many don't, yet is in vogue today.

It all boils down to the hunter and his skill set.  Air our dirty laundry on a public forum seems like a very bad idea, as it is testament to our private world.  The general public is watching what hunters say and do.  Don't think they don't.  And they vote for politicians who favor their point of view.

[Enigma]

It's disappointing to me when a few folks here feel the need to call me an "elitist", snob or a friend of PETA, or take juvenile shots at the people I hunt with it. Not disappointing to me personally, but frustrating when trying to reconcile the fact there are people who enjoy the same interests as I do (hunting) that are just so damn willfully ignorant and/or reactionary that they're unable to even consider a change in their position. 

Lastly, and I know it rarely comes off this way and I suck at it lol, but I do make a conscious effort when posting to not be argumentative. But there are times when one has to call a spade a spade and present an alternative viewpoint. Even when you know it will piss someone off. Its called debate and dialogue. It used to be done civilly to clarify a position and to form a consensus amongst people with a common interest, to define standards that we all agree to hold ourselves to. The next time you're reminiscing and being all nostalgic about the good old days and find yourself lamenting the loss of all those wonderous skills and values, might I suggest you stop and ponder for a minute how we regain perhaps the greatest of those lost skills, the aspiration and commitment to improving one's personal character.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Enigma

[Grouse]

You think we should consider changing our opinion about most hunter's not being slobs and poor shots?  Because that's what I thought you were trying to say with the first post you made in this thread.  I would think you would expect push back with that post.

Maybe I misinterpreted what you posted, but I saw you being the one taking shots at the people you hunt with.  You were using them as examples, no?  

I tend to think if even half of the hunters in the field were of that group, hunting would've been shut down by public opinion long ago.  There will always be bad apples, and we are capable of policing our own, but an opinion that disparages hunter's in general, will never be an opinion I will adopt.

BTW, in a debate, an uncivilized statement can be addressed with a snarky reply.  It's how you show the statement wasn't called for.  You should not expect your opponent to be civil after you throw the first punch.   Also part of improving one's personal character should include being less critical of other people's choices when it comes to legally taking game.

Hopefully you will consider changing your opinion too.

[Enigma]

3 hours ago, Grouse said:

You think we should consider changing our opinion about most hunter's not being slobs and poor shots?  Because that's what I thought you were trying to say with the first post you made in this thread.  I would think you would expect push back with that post.

Maybe I misinterpreted what you posted, but I saw you being the one taking shots at the people you hunt with.  You were using them as examples, no?  

I tend to think if even half of the hunters in the field were of that group, hunting would've been shut down by public opinion long ago.  There will always be bad apples, and we are capable of policing our own, but an opinion that disparages hunter's in general, will never be an opinion I will adopt.

BTW, in a debate, an uncivilized statement can be addressed with a snarky reply.  It's how you show the statement wasn't called for.  You should not expect your opponent to be civil after you throw the first punch.   Also part of improving one's personal character should include being less critical of other people's choices when it comes to legally taking game.

Hopefully you will consider changing your opinion too.

I actually think we agree on your first points. I think we're just using different language at times. 

I was using all of the people I've hunted with over the years as a reference. Not just personal friends or the folks I hunt with now. I was throwing quite a few under the bus, yes. IMHO too many of them sucked. Too many of them couldn't shoot, overestimated their abilities and had shitty attitudes attitudes in general. See pic attached to verify my street cred lol. 

". . . we are capable of policing our own . . ." Yes. But we don't often enough as a group. Why is that do you think? Does not the shaping of our public perception as hunters begin from within?

I admit to the uncivilized statement you refer to. And of course I can accept the reply. I could have phrased that better. I don't consider you an opponent or adversary and wouldn't want anyone to characterize my comments as throwing punches. I can understand how you might but you shouldn't. Pretty sure we can rise above that type of language. 

I'm always trying to improve my character. Including improving the delivery of the message I'm trying to convey so those crazy enough to listen don't feel criticized. It's a work in progress. Be thankful you aren't my gf lol.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Enigma

[ATbuckhunter]

All you need is practice. My grandparents used to hunt with a guy that would regularly kill running deer, but that's how he grew up hunting. They grew up hunting in Europe where running game was the name of the game. Id say most American Hunters do not have the skill to consistently kill running deer. Not that they can't achieve the skill, just that they don't practice it at all. Its all in the form and practice. Since most of us don't regularly shoot at running game Its not a skill most of us care to develop. I my self am in that group as I don't shoot at running deer. I'm not opposed to trying, but I've never really had a good opportunity. 

[Buckmaster7600]

Some of your responses are comical!

If not for running shots I wouldn’t have half the racks on the wall. Both bucks last year were shot running. One at 160yds with a muzzleloader. Practice, if you don’t practice running shots than you shouldn’t be taking running shots.


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[Buckmaster7600]

Isn't it easier just to become a better hunter and not have to shoot a running deer? 

Hopefully one day I’ll get on your level…


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[chrisw]

We used to do a bow shoot every year with 20-30 guys, we'd have a glen del target on a Zipline, you couldn't shoot until it came into the opening. Even at 22 yards and relatively slow moving you would have to lead the vitals 2 feet. You could either hit the trigger as the front of the deer touched the pin or follow through and shoot. I got good at it with a few shots but with so many variables in a hunting scenario would never attempt it while hunting. It was a lot of fun.

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[Splitear]

10 minutes ago, chrisw said:

We used to do a bow shoot every year with 20-30 guys, we'd have a glen del target on a Zipline, you couldn't shoot until it came into the opening. Even at 22 yards and relatively slow moving you would have to lead the vitals 2 feet. You could either hit the trigger as the front of the deer touched the pin or follow through and shoot. I got good at it with a few shots but with so many variables in a hunting scenario would never attempt it while hunting. It was a lot of fun.

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A church back home used to do a shoot in their basement in the winter. They had a challenge where you had to pin a ping pong ball to the wall while it was suspended in the air by a shop vac blowing it up. That was luck more than skill though. 

[chrisw]

A church back home used to do a shoot in their basement in the winter. They had a challenge where you had to pin a ping pong ball to the wall while it was suspended in the air by a shop vac blowing it up. That was luck more than skill though. 

Yea I've done that too. Fun to do but I agree it doesn't do much for hunting skill!

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