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I once had a lady drive through some state land I was hunting on opening day banging pots and pans and yelling to try to scare off deer. After driving through two more times every hour or so, the DEC officer I called the first time stopped her and proceeded to give her a ticket. Watched it all from where I was set up in the woods. Didn't get a deer that year, but I think I had just as much satisfaction from seeing her get the ticket as I would have taking a nice buck.

what?

Sure, I'll play... it may help someone avoid an avoidable catastrophy. In my early high school days, me and a few buddies were hanging out at his house while his parents were out for the night. We found his old mans weed and beers in the garage before we headed up to our hangout in my buddies room to properly dispose of them the way young high school boys do. After all our buzzes kicked in, my buddy disappeared and came back with his old mans pistol he kept hidden in a shoebox under his bed. We all drunkenly and stoned handled and admired it for a bit before passing it on to our next friend in the circle. When the gun finally came around to me, I remember aiming it at my pal and trying to pull the trigger but it wouldn't "click" for some reason.... I don't know why or how we didn't try to figure it out at the time, but in the end we finally figured out the damn thing was LOADED with the safety on the whole time. I almost killed my best friend at the time because his dad was irresponsible in regard to safe storage of his weapons with kids in the house and our own stupidity. I think about that a lot now whenever I pick up any gun I'm unfamiliar with or see someone I know storing their firearms in a lazy manner. The consequences can be life altering for everyone, so I'm not afraid to share that story whenever I see a gun owner that has as much common sense as a inebriated high school youth. That experience has stuck with me for almost 30yrs now even though it could have ended much worse. I'm thankful it didn't, but I'm still not sure who I'm angrier at till this day...... myself for being young and dumb and intoxicated.... or his old man for being oblivious to what could have happened leaving a recipe for disaster so accessible to us all.

The OP wasn't about reducing inventory . It was about getting an employee discount and selling to make a profit . If it was my store and someone did that , they would be looking for a new job . Unethical !

For those of you not familiar with the term, it means taking photos with a point and shoot camera through a spotting scope or binoculars. I took these photos of Calliope Hummingbirds last week in Idaho with a cheap point and shoot and a very high quality scope. The bison photo was taken with the same equipment. The other photos I've taken over the years, mostly for documentation purposes.

I finally got out to shoot my 2 new Ruger Americans today. One in 25-06 and the other in .22Mag. Impressive. After some tweaking, the 06 shot under1"at 100yds. The 22Mag was stacking them at 75yds. If anyone is on the fence about buying one,,,go for it.They shoot.

Part of the drop in my book is that they knew the antlerless was going into effect, potentially increasing the success rate of DMPs. Likely not all of the reasoning, but I suspect it factored into their decisions. So, next year, they can say the percent went from roughly 14% (ballparking the avg in those areas) to XX%, touting it as a major victory to leave it intact for future years until "further notice" or as a way to further spin their agenda to bring in guns if it doesn't go up significantly. For as stupid as they look publicly, behind the scenes, they reflect the smartness characteristic of Cuomo's administration. Don't read that as Cuomo being "good"....that admin just knows their crap when it comes to political navigating.

Oh, I got plenty of those too,lol Most recently, turkey hunting with my sister this spring. We'd set up several times one morning and we weren't having much luck. We decided to call it quits early and started heading back home when I stopped dead in my tracks, looked at her and asked...."didn't I bring my gun along today..?" She said "You had it earlier this morning" Ahhhh crap, we made our way around to 5 or 6 of our last set ups where I finally found my shotgun laying in the leaves,lol I'm so used to paying such close attention to not leave my camera behind throughout the year, that Ii forget half of my other crap when I bring anything "extra".... like a gun for instance,lol

Osama....I mean Obama has everything under control and monitoring the situation as we speak on the golf course in Martha's vineyard...

Goes to tower shoot, forgets key to trigger lock...

I have a fixed 4X Leupold that I would let go for $1000 or so...

If it was a corporation they'd be paying the ultimate price. But who holds the government accountable? As an environmental engineer I've studied these plums. There is no fixing them. Even money cannot solve them.

Funny Larry , Phade, I guess I am not alone in my willingness to inconvenience myself more for a big buck than a doe. I shoot my share of does. I'm not going make excuses or somehow apologize for passing does at times when I'd shoot a buck early in season at inopportune times. Hard to figure there are hunters out there who wouldn't understand this. But that's fine. hunting is supposed to be fun. Follow the rules and enjoy yourself.

I didnt see anyone say anything about not caring if the meat spoils, I saw someone say they wouldnt mind the work it takes to deal with making sure the meat doesnt spoil as much if it was a good buck vs a doe. He didnt say he doesnt want to shoot a doe, he said he would rather shoot a doe at a time when he doesnt have to rush so quickly to get the meat taken care of. Honestly, I agree with him to a point. It doesnt matter to me if its bow or gun season in that respect either. If its an evening and I have to work the next day, and its warm out, Im not shooting anything less than a big buck either. Again, will one of you guys that seem to be siding with the DEC please answer the question of what difference does it make if a doe is killed during bow or gun season?

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A round or two doesn't warrant gun cleaning unless you are shooting black powder or old military ammo with corrosive primers.Rimfires can be fired many hundreds of rounds without cleaning with no ill effect. Even high velocity centerfires can be fired dozens of rounds without need for cleaning. in many cases, wear from the cleaning rod is worse than leaving the bore dirty, within reason.. Take your .22 or your shotgun or your .243 and blow hell out of that cheeky rodent...<<grin>>...

What's the worst gun handling mishap you've had? The other day I was handling a Browning BPS in EXCELLENT shape while in my basement. I wanted to wipe it down with some Hoppe's real quick and somehow dropped it on a mostly carpeted area of the floor. G&%D#^@^$*^&+%!@* I couldn't believe it! It was not really damaged but it sure as heck could have been a disaster if it was anyone of my other guns, scoped or not! I know I've had other guns fall over in the woods, get a hard rap or two etc. but for the most part never really did any major damage that I recall. I always worry about dropping one out of the treestand but it hasn't happened yet, thankfully. How about you guys & gals, anything you want to admit to?

I think asumption and opinion are two dofferent things... In my opinion I think Doc is probably right... there is no way to say yes or no not knowing for sure.. but I'm still allowed my opinion of what I think is going on. I can say however that mine and Docs opinion are pretty right on given what we do know and the lack of any credible logic behind what the DEC is doing... and why would they want the harvest done in October?... and why wouldn't they want it done in the most efficient way ( during the gun season) ... none of what they are doing makes any sense as far as conservation goes... so the logical thought would be that they have another agenda.

All guys that think you get in the woods before "first light" are crazy, nobody beats me to the stand!! lol

October, November, December, doesnt matter, they are dead before they give birth to new fawns. Thats no assumption, thats a fact.

Yes loose powder is way to go I have a 54 great plains that can make a clover leaf at 75 yards with 85 grains, had an. Old timer have me start with 55 grains and work up a load for accuracy increasing 5 grains till you hear a sharp crack, if you go over that your just throwing unburned powder out the barrel (flames look good but not outside the barrel) I have guns that shoot 70 grains (Kentucky long rifle), 115 (kJohnathan browning mountain rifle) that's so hard to do with pellets.. accuracy is my first concern

Well not to me but I was with the guys at camp, one fellow came up and saw some turkeys we had got hanging and since he had his permit but no shotgun (was bow season) i lent him a 10ga single shot and took him out to where the turkeys were, he sees on pulls the gun up and nothing I yell bull back the hammer, he proceed to hit the ejection lever breaking the gun in half and ejecting the shell over his shoulder, the turkey just ran away.... Another time my friend who is a gun safety nut, brought down his gun and opening morning of gun takes it out of the case to find that he doesn't have the key for the lock,I told him I cold get it off but the lock would be shot, he said ok a quick run to the shed for a cordless drill and the lock was off in less than 3 seconds,drilled the keyway right out. (Useless things that they are) he quick got out before opening light on a perfect morning and got a nice buck. One serious one, had a friend carry his father's 870 pump over his arm (no sling)across a long deep snowy field, when he got to his stand he radioed he was all set, the drive pushed deer right to him, we heard 2 shots from his spot, snow had filled the end of his barrel unnoticed and he blew the barrel with the 1st shot but didn't notice it as the gun was scoped and the flower at the end of his barrel was not in scopes line of sight, he took second shot and then saw out the corner of his eye a leaf of metal, he was very lucky and it was the closest person I know of to be that lucky not to get hurt.

Now that I'm getting older and will have a grandson with me in years to come...BTW he's due any day now....I have started building more big shooting houses...when I say big they fit a office chair or 2...a folding cot and a heater...That way before River is old enough to hunt...I can go in at mid night and sleep until half hour before legal time put on my warm slippers sit back and relax ..have some coffee and a granola bar and there is no disturbing any deer at all. There many of you that might say that's not hunting...well I beg to differ. I had to know where the best placement of the blind would be and I still have to do some calling to get them close enough or interested...I have to know the winds for the best blind ...for I still have to open windows...I'm now just hunting smarter...for who wrote in the rules one has to be cold and miserable to be a hunter....

The guys been on vacation his whole presidency.

My personal worst was killing a deer, field dressing it, dragging it uphill a half mile to home and arriving without my shotgun. It was leaning against the tree when I got back down the hill - a mile round trip for an exhausted hunter. The most dangerous mishap I know of in my family was when one hunter - in a tree stand - shot a buck in front of heavy cover. Unknown to him, another member of the family was tracking a deer through that same cover not far away. The bullet passed through the deer and hit the ground 6' from the second hunter - who was wearing plenty of orange but still invisible.

I don't think anyone can know the motivation for sure. We can see the resulting regulation change. I can also put a pretty good argument together why this change will not yield the results they want, especially to the numbers they elude to. They make it sound like there is sever habitat destruction and a major over population. Let's take them at their word since they are the professionals. But that leads into a host of questions that they made no attempt to answer and they should have seen them coming. If the population is so out of control that there is a "critical need" to reduce it, why use the least productive weapon. Lets not get into a percentage conversation, they need numbers reduced and reduced in a big way. CRITICAL. right? Find a way to use guns and I don't mean ML's. Just get them removed and be over with it. Return to normal seasons when it is reduced to appropriate levels. Another question ---four areas with this "Critical need" are 8H, 8F, 8G and 8N. And since they need the take of doe to go up so much they did the most logical thing, besides the use of the least effective weapon to shoulder the increase. They reduced the number of available permits. 8H from 32,600 to 27,200; 8F from 53,700 to 39,100; 8G from 55,300 to 44,900 and 8N from 29,200 to 28,500. I guess the professionals have it well under control and the above are not assumptions.

I once shot Phade in the foot with a .22 after he told me that he wanted to set more stands and cameras. That said, I am not sure intentional conduct constitutes a mishap. Nothing really with a gun, but I did have a bow hanger twist and drop my new compound 15 feet. Landed in the thick stuff and no damage was done. Bow hanger was removed from that tree. I was hunting in sweatpants that day, so at least the mishap was consistent with my hunting attire.

guns.... all standing in a circle talking while my cousin loaded a borrowed Winchester Model 1897 12ga shotgun. Rule #1 he had it pointed in a safe direction. As we were talking though is went off into the ground in the center of the circle. we all locked up like a deer in the headlights. laughed gave him crap and then thanked him for pointing it in the right direction to begin with. multiple times walking down a slope coddling my scoped rifle I've slipped. Bumped it pretty good, drag the butt stock through the mud/snow, and stuck the muzzle into the snow/mud. never messed with the crown enough to effect accuracy from what I could tell. I keep oil and a boresnake close reasonably close by like on me or back at the truck for that reason. i'll unload it before traversing that kind of ground, muzzle up, and with the scope and receiver against my chest now. I've slid dozens of times probably. had ground to gun contact maybe half a dozen but only a few that were anything to be concerned about like above. dropped my Benelli Super Nova pump 12ga in pond/swamp water. also had a weird incident when it was used for clays where the trigger components and pump/forend stock binded up from maybe somehow working both at the same time or something. after a while of getting harassed by friends about my "Benelli" and trying to be gentle, had it in a safe direction and basically slammed the butt stock down on tree stump. everything broke free, looked it over good, tested function, and then went back to kicking their butt shooting clays. worked flawlessly ever since and only issue I've ever had with it. packed up the car to go bowhunting one morning very early in the morning/night. spot needed to be accessed sooner than usual and was a ways away. I set my $2,000 PSE Evo compound bow setup on the roof, finished packing things up, and then drove off. 55+ mph down the county highway. got to my spot, saw I didn't have my bow, and then started to about pass out. drove back and forth home and back a handful of times before the sun came up looking for it or pieces. didn't find anything. put up signs along the road about it missing. mail man found it on the side of the highway and called me the next morning. met him, chatted it up about loss, and then gave him a good finders fee. it had a little road rash on limb pocket bolts and most on sight. arrows were half popped out of the quiver. no other damage other than cosmetic. didn't adjust a thing and shot all 3 X's on a vegas face at 20 yards. still killing deer with setup with everything that went for a ride still on it.

It said on the news that some levels were 11000x's high than what is considered safe ...now it's all OK???

Thanks for adding that one Wooly, I'm sure it wasn't easy to do. Tough deal but like you said, hopefully good has come out of your admission.

I think I heard Hurst say that this doe only archery experiment where bowhunters are mandated to manage the deer population, will go for two years and then the next phase of an early muzzleloader season will be implemented when bowhunters fail to satisfy the DEC with proper deer population numbers. So we have two years before a lot of those items happen. They are using the deer population to drive all the items on their wish-list that they have wanted for years.

Now they are saying its not that bad and levels are fine for humans. I wouldn't believe them for a minute…….

With human encroachment over the landscape, may not be wise to re-introduce the wolf. Let's find ways to keep and improve upon what we have.

maybe we make this nonsense go 50 pages

LOL http://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/NYSDEC/bulletins/112184f

OK, good reason.

As far as heat, I'll pass does just so I don't get sweaty, I can shoot does on over 50% or more of my sits so I'll pass when it's warm, if I got a long drag across plowed fields I'll never shoot a doe in that spot as well. If it's last light and I'm working the next day , pass..... Heck I'll pass a doe if I feel I'd be late for watching Survior on tv with our friends. Now a large buck it seems I get one in close opportunity in bow season ( last year bad angle and too many limbs , never even shot) so yes I'll get sweaty, spend three hours dragging the darn thing across 16 inch deep muddy furrows, or try to get a guy at the last minute to cover my shift the next Day if needed . I might even miss Survior if the wife will dvr it !

Your assumption attempts to make sense of an idiotic, illogical plan. You are pretending to understand their motives with that assumption. I can take that same information in the light of their long-standing desire to hand over parts of bow season to muzzleloaders, and come up with other scenarios and motives for them placing the burden of herd population management on the backs of archers only. I have little respect remaining for the DEC's intellect, but I believe there reasons for placing the impossible task on bowhunters is to justify the implementation of deer hunting with firearms inside of bow seasons by setting bowhunters up for logical failure. And yes that in their minds will cause more does to be taken in what used to be bow season. The real difference in our two assumptions is that you believe that there really is something bowhunters can do about it. I am facing up to the more likely reality that they have no intention of declaring us successful. They want that muzzleloading season in the bowhunting time slot ..... period, and you can kill all the does you want, and they will declare your failure. We differ in assumed motives and outcomes. Are you wrong? Only time will tell.

I honestly only start seeing a difference when the human presence is there. Its really like a light switch that afternoon, when there are 5 times as many people in the woods, with oily guns , etc. regardless if a single shot was taken that morning or not.

What you're describing is Fascism, not Socialism. And you're right, it's been in place since the 1930's. Fascism involves private ownership of business, but with government control. The ever-increasing power of the regulatory agencies are shifting that concept of 'ownership' toward the government. Socialism involves government ownership of business with some semblance of private control (an absurd notion to anyone capable of thought),but basically, a business owner has the right to do what the government/owner tells them to do. The federal government today runs this country. That's not how it's supposed to work, and I'm not going to vote for anyone who thinks this is a good thing.

It's not ethical, and kind of a DB thing to do IMO. Those discounts are a perk of the job, with the employer offing you deals to make the company a better place to work. Incentive so to speak. If I owned a store/company and an employee did this to me, I would fire them on the spot. I would consider it theft. It shouldn't matter the size of a company, wrong is wrong. If you owned a store/company and caught an employee stealing what would you do?

Entrepreneurial zest would be contacting a distributor, getting a business license, setting up a storefront (real or virtual) and selling like a real business. I'm not sure how our culture encourages such behavior. Again, I feel this practice is no more than theft. If you failed to lock you car, are you actively encouraging theft? Does that then condone the theft? What if the employer didn't have cameras in the stock room and trusted you with the keys to the store... does that "encourage" helping yourself to some "excess" inventory and make it acceptable? It is any more ethical to "take a few home" if it is for personal use vs. resale? An employer giving a benefit to an employee and trusting that employee to not use that benefit to steal from the employer is "trust" not encouragement. Scale makes no difference. It's like the old joke: Man: would you sleep with me for $1 million? Woman: sure Man: would you sleep with me for $1? Woman: No! What do you think I am? Man: We've already determined that - now, we are simply negotiating price.

No. You are effectively competing with your employer, with him funding the effort. Most employers restrict the discount policy to "for own use," with that sometimes including family. Even where the policy is broader, acting as a reseller is not within the spirit of the policy.

Should be ,vertical,crossbow and rifle shotgun muzzleloader option.

I use mostly Realtree AP early on because it has more green in it. Later in the season I switch to Mossy Oak Break Up Infinity that is darker. Camo is probably a racket overall but oh well lol

It really does boil down to what works best for you... if going in early works.. then that's what you ought to be doing.. there are no real rules for how to deer hunt... deer are different, people are different... your experience will be different than others... do what keeps it enjoyable for you.

Years ago when I first started hunting I was so excited I would be in my stand at least an hour before sunrise. I now prefer to scout my way in at the first grey light. I look for any fresh sign like new rubs and scrapes fresh tracks and of course any deer that may be up and moving through the area. It may be well after sunrise before I finally get to my stand/blind. I killed one of my best bucks doing this a few years ago. I spotted him moving up the ridge towards me,so I got down behind a big hemlock tree and watched as he slowly made his way up to me. I put an arrow through him at twelve yards well after sunrise. I never would have seen him if I was in my stand before light.

always predawn when possible...I have spooked countless deer and they always came back ...or even came at me....it's all on how you do it...buck in pic... was understand spooked and I grunted and stomped...stiff legged back...spooked and I got half way up ladder and I grunted again...he came back then walked off into gully...around 8 I put an arrow through him at 3 yrds....

Durring archery I'm in before first light as chance of a good shot while on ground are tough.....gun season different story as range is much more and jumping a deer doesn't mean no shot opportunity. For that reason I head in right at legal shooting light. Edit....good question can't wait to see the answers