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I have been hunting successfully for the better part of 25 years ,, I have a garage wall of all the racks that I have taken over the years ,,, spike horns , one side Clyde , forks , six points etc... I can look at each one of those and remember the place ,time and property also the people or hunting story that goes with each one ...I have let 1 1/2 walk and have got all bent out of shape trying to shoot one ... Hunting is such a personal experience that to say shooting of a spike 1 1/2 old deer is so easy,,, is just wrong,,,, hunting and what is considered a trophy is done only by the person hunting..

Nothing is set in stone yet, the DEC needs time to MULLET over. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A deer is an animal that gets educated by us humans as it gets older. If the situation is right that old 4.5 year old will be as easy as killing a yearling. If the situation is right killing that yearling will be just as hard as to kill a 4.5 year old buck. You can sit and wait on the ground or better yet go up a tree. You can track a buck for miles and hopefully get a look at him in the distance. You the hunter make it what it is. No right or wrong, its what you get out of it. I have had hunters shoot a mature buck 10 minutes into their first hunt ever. They had the deer mounted and hung up the gun never to hunt again. That hunter never got anything out of the experience. Those who hardly see deer but go back year after year, they get something out of it. I just hope the changes that are coming do not sway the younger and old timer hunters away from the sport. That would be two resources we can't lose..

Perhaps next year the majority of our meat will be 2.5 years or older BEFORE it goes in the freezer.

This story took place in 7m opening day: Are annual opening weekend trip had finally came. Campers were nice and warm as we sat around talking about the next morning. We were dreaming big, but I was doubting due to some of the crew had been there for a week already bow hunting, with no deer sightings. Well opening morning came, cold it was. I set up on the edge of the state land hoping deer would try to get to the posted property. Well 20 minutes into legal shooting time, I hear a fourwheeler. Well said land owner had same idea I did. I get up frustrated and mad but no reason to be, it is his land and I'm on state land. I crest the hill and bam there stands a doe. Tag in pocket I take a quick aim. Well from frustration, I missed. So the afternoon hunt rolls up. The ball and chain wants to go out with me. Mind you she is 9 months pregnant. She loves to go out but won't ever shoot a deer. We setup not far from where I had in the morning. As we are sitting I change my socks because my feet sweat a lot. Get done with that and she says its starting to get cold. No more than does she say that I see a doe. She is mature. As I'm on her I see another deer coming 50 yards behind. I ask my woman what is it. She says, looks to be a doe. So I take my shot. The mature doe I saw first goes down. I look over and the other does has horns. She says I'm sorry. I laughed but in my head was screaming. So we wait then go to the doe. As we are standing there looking at her I catch movement. Here come that buck right down that does trail again. She hands me my gun. I can tell he is decent. He gets 15 yards away hooks right and I let the .243 bark. He feel so quick I didn't see him go down. There was a small hump so I could see him laying there. We approached and there lay what I consider a nice 7m 8 pointer. So we were done on opening day. 2 days later she gave birth to our son. Nobody in my group would believe us. More stories to come if anyone cares to hear

I know of three separate cases where this happened exactly as you described it. One of the guys was less than 200 yards from where they parked the car. His words......"This doesn't seem like much of an accomplishment". He was not kidding, and indeed never went hunting again. The deer was a huge 11 point that any hunter here would be thrilled to get.....lol.

Found it online.

Why ain't you SPECIAL..??.. Perhaps not everybody is LOOKING for a challenge.. Perhaps many of us just want to enjoy the sport and the outdoors and a chance to put a deer or two in the freezer.. You want a CHALLENGE.... Okay, that's your perogative... Just keep in mind that MANY of the folks that buy hunting licenses just want the opportunity to enjoy hunting with a reasonable chance of taking home some game..

Killing a young buck may be easier in some locations than others, but I'd like to see the guy who could absolutely put one down in ANY location in a given day or two of hunting time. That is easier said than done. Those who think that they could do this in ANY location have either not hunted long enough or have hunted their whole careers in locations where deer were plentiful and seen every time out. That is surely NOT the case for a lot of hunters out there.

From a hunter perspective, yes. We view the rut more as a "what do hunters see" thing rather than the biological version of it. Poor weather conditions can drive more nighttime activity.

I'm not saying they hunt heavily- pressured public land, more that they don't sit in the same old stand every day, regardless of wind direction, while smoking a cig and drinking coffee.

roughly half, give or take, don't give any out to non residents...if I counted correctly.

Gun is a Ruger Mini 30, 7.62x39.

I'd rather spend my money lounging at a swim up bar at a Jamaican or Mexican resort 2 or 3 times a year than investing it in chasing the giant mystical whitetail..........I can satisfy my hunting needs for next to nothing a few miles from home on public land and will continue to do so until I can't for one reason or another.

Moog, They indeed have had some success! this bear my cousin shot last spring skull measure 19 3/8 which was P&Y and around 380 pounds. My little cousin also took a 200 pounder with her .243. They have a 75% success rate up there and everyone usually gets their shot at a mature bear. Fish during the day and hunt at night. They have gotten to know the owner fairly well and a great group of people. Can't wait to go! Here is his link: http://mikesoutfitter.com/index.en.html

I think just more deer on the best property still. Inferior habitat will still be inferior IMO

Like paint ball, I don't think it would be for me. Guns and bows (IMO) are not toys and as such shooing people with them is something that wouldn't be my idea of fun. But, YMMV I never bought my son any toy guns either...........

I say one of those guys swaps a hunt with you, you go to their big buck producing property and they come down to your hunting land......we'll see what happens after a week long hunt.

So now 12 point minimum? To use NY Antlers analogy what you are suggesting is taking the basketball rim and raising it to 14' because you don't like the use of the dunk in scoring and moving the 3 point line out to half court. Really raises the skill level required to play the game but wouldn't make for a pretty $hitty sport to watch or participate in. I am all for QDM, familiar with the process and management approach. Not in favor of shoving my CHOICES down another hunters' throat.

I read both his books, very good reading in my opinion. I like the fact that his shows focus on the experience and the food it provides....

Has nothing to do with being a better hunter.. I just put on more miles than most hunters and see more deer. Mostly I guess I'm just luckier than some. My last 5 out of 6 bucks have been killed Dec 10th or later... if I sat in a treestand I'm sure I would have the same results as most other hunters, but I don't... because that makes no sense to me and certainly doesn't sound like any fun. Instead of attacking other hunters for being more successful, some of the "can't kill a deer" guys ought to pay a little better attention to what the successful hunters are doing differently. Because the successful guys certainly aren't going to stop killing deer so the rest can catch up... that's not how it works.

My comment was directed at him and his statement and had nothing to do with you. In fact, it was meant in your defense. Obviously that was too hard for YOU to figure out... my website has nothing to do with anything... I promote nothing... I post ALL the pictures and stories sent to me.. there is no selection process... therefore no hypocrisy. My website is strictly entertainment for those that want to participate... it has nothing to do with what, where, when or why I hunt... what in Gods name gives you any idea that something on this forum could possibly upset me... LOL... it's a stupid forum for crying out loud... just people talking... none of it is important.. it's just entertainment for me. But obviously very important to you.. LMAO

I can't wait to take my son.....few years until I can.....but bringing someone hunting who hasn't been before is almost better than getting a deer

Late to the party and haven't read all 300 some posts. But imo, ARs are easy for hunters who log the long hours. I use to be a member of a club that leased 550 acres in stier. Had 11 members and we drove all season long. Shot lots of little bucks and had 5 members that only gun hunted till thanksgiving then done. 6 of us bow hunted and gun hunted year round. Bout 7 years ago we implement ars. 8 pt, to the eats spread and 3.5 yr old. After one year half our members dropped out. Shooting mature bucks is not for everyone. Some were even family. Sucked but everyone picked aside. I stayed and am very happy waiting 3 years to get a whack at one of our big boys. Seems that is the average of getting a shot for us. But after this long I don't count points or look at spread, when you see a shooter you just know. Spend all summer checking out deer all over wny it's my thing. Buddy said he saw. "Monster" get hit by a car in elma, I was not far behind him and saw 1 1/2 yr old 6 point. he hunts as well but has different ideas of what big is. State wide would be a complete failure. To each his own. No reason to divide us furthet

this has been an interesting read, so far its been a mirror image of ar/hr discussions on the hunting pa site. back in the earlier 2000's when Gary Alt did the pa game commission road show speeches a lot of folks looked at the mature antlers he held up and bought his presentation hook line and sinker. the doe carnage that ensued for 2 years was ridiculous at best, they may have heard him talk about hr (herd reduction) but it didn't sink in until reality hit. quite a few of the public land areas were just about decimated in population. there was such an outcry from hunters that in many of the zones they did away with the 2 week concurrent season. most area's now have 5 days of antler and 7 days of concurrent season the rest of the zones have the 2 week concurrent season. since its inception they have made some tweaks to the program; - at first it was 3 to a side in most zones, in the western zone it was 4 to a side (both counted brow tines) several years ago the changed the 4 point zone to a "3 up" meaning 3 up on the main beam - again the antlerless changes. -they made some changes in one of the zones in the "cwd hot zone" where antlerless tags were boosted and open all season for doe. without a doubt no program has been as hotly contested and divisive amongst hunters as the ar/hr program in Pa. to some extent it has helped the antlered deer reach an older age class. without a doubt there were many area's in the state that needed numbers to be reduced but not to the levels they were reduced to. one of the biggest downfalls of the management plan in pa is the wmu's are too large, they went from county antlerless tags to wmu's similar to what we have here in NY. that encompass multiple counties with a multitude of habitat and terrain intermixed in the wmu. The pgc has changed some antlerless allocations but for the most part the numbers have stayed steady, some property owners have taken that matter into their own hands and posted property to protect the antlerless deer. The hunting heritage and hunting mentality is far different there than it is here... simply put if landowners do not protect the doe's from the hunters the hunters wont protect them from themselves, what I mean is with a large majority of those folks if they have a tag in their pocket they need to fill it at all costs. I cant tell you how many times i have heard and or read someone say I only saw 2 doe all season and if I hadn't shot them I wouldn't of gotten a deer, that is why some land has gotten posted to protect the deer. What is going to happen here? who knows. i guess we all have our own ideas and wants,,, whether its for selfish reasons or not. I have my thoughts on what I would like to see happen but no matter what they do one thing is for sure its not going to stop me from hunting, may have to change my game plan but not gonna bow out of the game. and truthfully for myself its not going to change a thing, for me its a personal choice of deer I want to shoot just as i feel it should be for anyone else to do the same, I am not gonna set here and lie, as I have gotten older I have more of a problem with the fawn kills, more so with how many buck fawns get killed. I hear all the time there are not many buck around......ayyyupp kinda hard to have racked bucks when people shoot them when they are only 5-7 months old. ny is no different than most states, some area's the herd is below carrying capacity and other area's its over capacity, trying to balance that and hunter satisfaction is a near impossible task, and with some just as in day to day life you will never please everyone. just my thoughts and observations from living with ar/hr since its inception in Pa. so take it for what its worth, they set the laws I abide by them and hunt accordingly, I may not always agree with them but I have to hope the biologists know what they are doing.

Amazing....All this commotion about killing a damn deer or two or three... I guess it's a good thing I'm getting old enough so I won't have to put up with such nonsense for much longer.. I'd like to quote NYANTLER... Shut up and HUNT..!!

Despite the cold/wind, I called in a fox. But no sign of coyotes either coming in to the call or tracks in the snow.

since you brought it up, I've often wondered if deer sometimes daydream as they amble unsuspectingly through the woods..........I'm sure we've all seen the deer walking around and then seen the "oh crap" look on its face when it sees you at the last second because it wasn't paying attention.

And, we're finally there. Name calling. Took us more pages than I thought.

33.8 lbs

Very interesting information for deer hunters. I found this to be extremely interesting and very informative, hope you enjoy this study as much as I have and it is still going on! I just can not get enough of this type of data! Love it!!! http://ecosystems.psu.edu/research/projects/deer/news

Year and here I sit looking over my Welter and other seed catalogs...making plans in my head....Welters is looking a tad thin...and it was thin last season as well....Well now I know why...they have cut out several by the # clovers...50# bags and the RR soybeans are down to 2...still have lots of brassicas per # so thats good and several seeds with ASK at the price...hhhmmm never a good sign...I use to like surf and turf before it was ASK for price on the menues....lol

I'm not so much into WeedEater as I am into WeedSmoker: The Definitive Guide to...Wait Are Those Nachos? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think frost free sucks all the moisture out of the freezer creating a drier atmosphere and creating no frost...........not so with the other type.

I have never done a spring bear in Quebec but have gone to Ontario twice in September. Was fun but the only draw back I can convey was the BUGS!!! head net for us was a must and I would check with your relatives to see if they were bad. Might want to practice shooting with the head net on if you are boing with your bow.

I still find it hard to believe that some guys are totally baffled that other hunters are perfectly satisfied shooting any deer whether it be a spike, doe or big 10pt, and are just as excited regardless of what it is.......and look forward to doing the same thing year after year with no regrets.........it's a frigging animal for Christ's Sake!!!! no different to many than a rabbit, turkey, goose, duck or anything else they hunt and kill for enjoyment or whatever it is they get out of it.

That's what I heard as well. The outfitter states if the bear is higher than the second rung on the 50 gallon drum next to the bait pile then they are more than likely a shooter

Just be glad you don't have to drive to Watertown. 1 1/2-3 FEET is forecast!

No, zero is held for this manufacturer. However, I find a slight shift between the wood version and the synthetic (pictured here) for a couple of barrels I own. Interestingly my 270win and 300wby do not shift at all. I believe there is a slight difference in the recoil lug slot ground into the barrel and the mating lug on the receiver. But if sighted in one one frame, that frame/barrel/scope combination will repeat. If I fly I usually check zero anyway just in case something got dropped (Also stories of turrets getting tweeked here and there and cut case locks) But I can fresh mount a scope (they are QD mounts for most barrels I have) and mount a barrel and just shoot.

Eat it!!

I'm fat, lazy and old...Are you suggesting that I would not look good with a FISH on my head ? No offense taken...I wouldn't look good with Kim Kardashian on my head, but I'll bet I would FEEL pretty good.. This has been probably the MOST fun thread ever... " DON'T tell my heart....My Achey Breaky heart "......

I'm back in.

Since at least 3 points are of such importance, maybe hunters should take the bucks temperature rectally before they shoot it? The only bucks that will be allowed to get shot are the ones with a temperature at least 3 points above normal. The DEC's reasoning will be that they are probably sick and will die anyway, so only those will be allowed to get shot. LOL

no sense of humor I guess.......

Your good if you can ell exactly how old a deer is or that it is 15 wide or more when it is cruising through the woods......I can't tell on point half the time......I always love the, I had a 9 point run past me at 100......your good if you can count points when they are running

Be verrrrrrrry careful saying yes to seeing pics in such a general statement with him. your eyes may never be the same.

To be honest, my fingers are getting whip lash. Jumping all the hell over the place on this keyboard. I haven't typed such long winded post ever, especially without hanging a picture or two......... To all I might have offended in my views and posts, I'm sorry. Wanna see some pics?

My take is they are are individuals with different temperments and life experiences that have shaped how they react to certain situations. A six month old deer that hasnt been through a hunting season yet is probably going to act different than deer that has been pushed around or shot at before. All depends on what each deer perceives as danger.

you may not be missing much, I've done out of State / Country hunts and each time the best part was the scenery and the trip getting there............each time I said to myself that hunting Whitetail is more exciting and fulfilling, but that's just me.

I'd cut the foam IMO. If the case ends up on edge I have seen rifles migrate with the vibration to one side and rub a rifle pretty bad. You just need to cut one layer and replacement foam is cheap to make more options. I glue my first and second layers together but you don't need to do that, when filled it all keep itself in place. Make a seperate slot for the rifle bolt and pull that when packing. I use a snap off blade craft knife to cut for a long blade (or Havalon Piranta, but not everyone has one).