Hydrofracking in the Southern Tier

[Dave]

What do you think of the Govenors maybe plan to allow hydrofracking in the counties that border Northern Pa. border?

Is the potential risk worth gains? How will it affect the area. As a side note a friend of mine visited Pa and was talking to the people in the area where hydrofracking is allowed. He got the local gossip and one thing he did mention is a lot of hunting camps have been broken into since the fracking has started. Like to hear your rational.

[landtracdeerhunter]

It's not just going on in the southern tier. People are receiving informational card along the escarpment right here in Niagara County. Says a large source of Natural gas right along our ridge. Has a comment card attached for return to Albany. Looks to me like it's full speed ahead. We have to explore other forms of energy, but don't know this is the right way to go about it. A lot more questions need to be answered. Can have all kind of success, but that one failure, is what scares me.

Edited June 20, 2012 by landtracdeerhunter

[Dave]

They like to say it will make us less dependant on foreign oil. If you really analize it this is a false statement. Even if we were full force into fracking it wouldn't replace our dependency on foreign oil. The price of natural gas is at a 10 year low so it's not profitable for companies to drill. Chesapeake Gas stock was over $60 in 2008 now it is just over $19 . There is no inferstructure to deliver the natural gas to every gas station that sells gasoline.

[landtracdeerhunter]

Boy, never know it by my gas bill. Someones got to be making money somewhere on natural. Albany will just receive funds from the feds to build infrastructure, not. Feds are waisting money on electric cars right now. Won't fit the game plan.

Edited June 20, 2012 by landtracdeerhunter

[growalot]

It already has effected the southern tier....the price of housing land and rent has all gone up thanks the the thousands of workers that the gas companies have already sent up here..Corning is a good example....When you do want to buy property nearly nothing is being sold with it's mineral rights and still high priced...but do you see the taxes levy coming down?Then you'd best have a damn good mineral rights lawyer sitting next to you before signing any paper work.....

.I was talking to some ppl that were all for the wind generators down that way...listened to all the promises....seems that towns like Cohocton....aren't seeing all the cash promised.... at least with out constant rigamarole.... but hey that's just hear say

[SteveB]

They can start tomorrow on my land in CNY and use the house and barn for an office.

[First-light]

For the near future I don't see much happeneing. Price of natural gas is way to low to be profitable. I am not for it but how could I deny the right to another person who hasn't had much all their life being able to sign for some bucks. It has and will continue to change the landscape of WNYS.

[MuzzyLoader]

Oh, it'll happen... whether one likes it or not.

[Dave]

I can't see the Feds giving funds to build the inferstructure. Remember this is private industry, but I would like to know the plan on how they plan to beef up our roadways. There are alot of dirt roads up state that are damaged by loggers and some have weight restrictions. How will they get around that?

There is two types of natural gas fields one more valvable and therefore more profitable than the other. The dry gas fields are more profitable the wet, which we have less so.

As far as the poor peolpe getting money for their lease of acergae to the gas companies, that they need to survive is a bunch of bunk. Even before this fracking issue started in NY, these people had their land and weren't selling any. So if they needed the money how come they never sold their land to make ends meet. You guys are hunters and many have bought land, and I am sure they tried to get top dollar, no one was selling the land cheap to make ends meet. I think the land owners upstste who need the money are the ones who own only a few acres, not the pro fracking group that own hundreds and possibly thousands of acres.

[NFA-ADK]

Where do you get your water from?

[Early]

Wouldn't you think that with this valuable natural resource below the surface of this great state...and all the very, very good engineering schools in NY...that we could come up with a safe, cost-effective way to harness natural gas?

[G-Man]

wwont happenthis year or any time too soon in my area, nys still needs a plan and they are slow only took 20 years to try to start to extend 219 ans thats stopped as well now...

[WNYBuckHunter]

They already have safe, cost effective ways of harnessing natural gas. There are thousands of natural gas wells in NY already. Fracking just lets them cover more area from one well.

[Dave]

They already have safe, cost effective ways of harnessing natural gas. There are thousands of natural gas wells in NY already. Fracking just lets them cover more area from one well.

The fracking process is much more deviatating to the land and surrounding area than the old vertical drilling method. Most of those old wells have been tapped out years ago. Once a well is fracked it can be fracked again when the flow of gas starts to slow down. Making a second chance for things to go wrong.

[ANTLERS]

NFA-ADK hit the nail on the head,Water.It takes thousands of gallons of water to sink one well.Where is the water coming from,Local ponds?,The delaware river?Without water theres no well.

[Dave]

NFA-ADK hit the nail on the head,Water.It takes thousands of gallons of water to sink one well.Where is the water coming from,Local ponds?,The delaware river?Without water theres no well.

Antler it takes millions of gallons for just one well, not thousands. The back wash is hazardous waste and we have no way to treat this problem. Don't know how that can be considered safe for anyone, land or man. Our treatment plante are not capable of treating this hazardous backwash.

[WNYBuckHunter]

The fracking process is much more deviatating to the land and surrounding area than the old vertical drilling method. Most of those old wells have been tapped out years ago. Once a well is fracked it can be fracked again when the flow of gas starts to slow down. Making a second chance for things to go wrong.

Actually, most of the wells are still producing, at least around here they are. In fact, theres one on the farm where I live, and 4 or 5 right near my Fathers house.

I know what fracking is, you dont need to explain it to me.

[Dave]

Actually, most of the wells are still producing, at least around here they are. In fact, theres one on the farm where I live, and 4 or 5 right near my Fathers house.

I know what fracking is, you dont need to explain it to me.

What you call a functioning well may be an old well that Is now used for storage. Where the gas has been depleted, then they inject gas back into the old well. I know this for a fact in the Honeoye area. These wellls are only used when gas is not available from major suppliers. This area is a storage area not a producing well area. This has nothing to do with fracking, it's how the natural gas business works.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Storage wells are different than production wells, Dave. They tried that route in the salt veins down in Avoca in the 90's that whole thing went bust. they coulnd't get rid of the brine produced in the cavern development. In conventional drilling for natural gas there ins't a cavern developed and the volume area is not that great to pump back into the conventional well area. Additionally in order to do ti a compressor station would need to be installed. at line pressure you couldn't force the gas into a compressed state and into the ground.

Do you see compressor stations near these storage wells do there?

Edited June 21, 2012 by Culvercreek hunt club

[Dave]

Storage wells are different than production wells, Dave. They tried that route in the salt veins down in Avoca in the 90's that whole thing went bust. they coulnd't get rid of the brine produced in the cavern development. In conventional drilling for natural gas there ins't a cavern developed and the volume area is not that great to pump back into the conventional well area. Additionally in order to do ti a compressor station would need to be installed. at line pressure you couldn't force the gas into a compressed state and into the ground.

Do you see compressor stations near these storage wells do there?

Culver you don't know what you are talking about. Check on line and check out Honeoye Storage Corporation. Down state gas companies draw down the gas in the winter then inject it back into the ground. origionally these wells were rated at about 800# not they are rated at over 1100#. This has made it possible to inject more gas for storage. These old gas wells were tapped in a medias sandstone where the gas is in the sand stone once extracted now under pressure in the summer months the gas is put back in the storage fields through the Tennessee gas pipeline. I know I have worked with this company in the past, I scheduled withdrawl and injection rates. Have been up to the storage fields, met the management etc.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Dave. I worked on the ones developed in Avoca. I built the compressor station and installed the distribution piping. We also tapped into the TV Pipeline.

Edited June 21, 2012 by Culvercreek hunt club

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I guess the point I was trying to make was a production well it just that and massive compressors are needed for removel (distribution yes). Different set up for production wells and storage wells. You must have massive compressors down there to use sandstone for storage. even more horsepower than in open cavern storage.

I hear all this stuff about fraccing but dont remember a peep when the project was moving forward in Avoca. Right up on a hill above some beautiful trout waters. Actually the process calle dfor injection of diesel into the ground during th cavern development.

[nyantler]

They can start tomorrow on my land in CNY and use the house and barn for an office.

I'm with you Steve!

[Dave]

I'm with you Steve!

I don't think you guys wil be cashing any checks soon. One of my hunting buddies bought 50 acres in 2009 thinking he was going to hit the jackpot, still waiting. This will have an adverse effect, problems getting home owners insurance, land valves going down, taxes going up. Not to mention possible environmental and health effects. So what do you get for your money? What about your neighbors , traffic, noise, pollution etc, no more pease and quiet. Progress or greed?

[SteveB]

Progress and help to possible retirement which will never happen without it. Also have family living and working in the NE and NC region of Pa.First hand stories from them about the wells in their backyards are far different then the one sided scare fables being pushed by the anti's in NY. If the neighbors want to object to how I use my 20 acres, they can step up and buy it - it's for sale.