Another Mass Shooting...upstate NY this time.

[pistolp71]

Yesterday was a perfect illustration of why to carry.  The Mohawk police Department is in the same block as barber shop that he first hit. He drove about a mile to the car wash and that is within a mile of the Herkimer police Department. He then went to a parking lot. parked and walked by the Library and holed up in the building. That building is a block away from the Herkimer police department. and less thatn 2 miles away from State Police Troop D Barracks in East Herkimer. You can't get in a better place for response time and this guy was able to move untouched or observed by police to 3 locations. The police did a grat job in this whole scenario but it ilustrates that they can not be there when you need them in most cases.

 

Exactly, the police can't always be right there.

[Deerthug]

I'm perfectly comfortable with my ability to protect myself as well as my ability to be self reliant.  I've never felt the need to carry a weapon in the course of my daily life.  I'm sorry to hear that you feel so inadequate without one.  Is there really so much evidence out there that proves that carrying makes you safer, as opposed to just making you feel safer?

 

With all due respect to everyone here, there is no need for any "evidence" to prove if carrying actually makes you safer or just feel safe. If you can legally carry and you choose to do so, and if it makes you as a person feel safer or more comfortable, even if it's just knowing that you have the opportunity to defend yourself against another person or persons who attempt to harm you, your family or another innocent, then so be it.  

 

I don't think it's a liberal or conservative ideal per se (although society seems to dictate that most liberals are against it and most conservatives are for it).   I believe it's more a personal choice and no one, not a liberal or conservative should tell you whether carrying is the right thing or wrong thing to do.  When you pull the trigger, you are the one who has to deal with the consequences, good or bad.

 

But for those who are against it or choose not to carry, ask yourselves, why should the dirt bag with a gun pointed at you or your family have the upper hand and you not to at least have the choice to level the playing field? 

Edited March 14, 2013 by Deerthug

[GreeneHunter]

Well said Deerthug !!!

[Doc]

Ah .... poor Virg. You know some times even the trolls have bad days ..... lol.

[ELMER J. FUDD]

Ah .... poor Virg. You know some times even the trolls have bad days ..... lol.

This will be one of the funniest posts for a while.

[joe12]

wonder how many he would have been able to kill if he had one of the weapons that they're trying to restrict.

 

You don't think that the use of a shotgun in tight confined spaces is just as deadly as a semi-auto rifle? You could take out multiple people at the same time with one shot using a shotgun. How do you know that this nut job didn't just kill the people he planned to kill and could have kept going? I bet if he had one of the banned weapons, he would have only loaded 7 rounds into the magazine.

 

It is amazing to me that liberals continue to blame this weapon, that weapon, and its never the nut job's fault. Something like this happens and the response is "well this is good news because he would have killed more had the ban not been in place". What if someone in the barber shop was carrying a weapon? Maybe then a lot LESS people would have been killed, but the liberals prevent that because they want us dependent on the government for protection.

[ELMER J. FUDD]

You guys better step off. Virgil takes creatine and he knows karate.

[HuntOrBeHunted]

OK, it obviously makes you feel better to label anyone as self-loathing if they don't share your gun love.  Whatever.

 

 

Lol no offense but you really own weapons ?... All I can picture is Piers Morgan, trying to hold back a sh!t eatin grin while firing off that machine gun.

[tuckersdaddy]

did any one else notice the pictures of the swat teams there? just about all of them had firearms that did not conform to the safe act. now how long do you think its going to be before the aclu or some other legal right org. decides to sue nys for killing the piece of crap with illeagle firearms? anyone want to start a pool on that?

[ants]

I'm perfectly comfortable with my ability to protect myself as well as my ability to be self reliant.  I've never felt the need to carry a weapon

 

TALK ABOUT SOME "MACHISMO!"!!  Hope I never get on Virgil's bad side. He/she will just exploit my" inadequacies" and spin slap the crap out of me!  LOL!!! 

[nyantler]

What saddens me is that you or anyone else would be willing to give up the rights of yourself or others and hand the government more power over all of us.

That is the liberal way.. the conservative would say "you do what you want and I'll do what I want" the liberal says... "everyone should do it this way because we know best what is good for everyone"... I know that me owning a gun will never get anyone murdered therefore there is no reason that I shouldn't be able to own as many guns of any kind that I choose under the Constitution... liberals want to take away a weapon that overall in the US has just a .0002% of causing a death... you have a better chance of getting killed by slipping in the shower than being killed by a gun.

 

I really don't understand why liberals haven't tried banning guns as a way to stop war in the world. That rationale is right up their alley

Edited March 14, 2013 by nyantler

[tuckersdaddy]

That is the liberal way.. the conservative would say "you do what you want and I'll do what I want" the liberal says... "everyone should do it this way because we know best what is good for everyone"... I know that me owning a gun will never get anyone murdered therefore there is no reason that I shouldn't be able to own as many guns of any kind that I choose under the Constitution... liberals want to take away a weapon that overall in the US has just a .0002% of causing a death... you have a better chance of getting killed by slipping in the shower than being killed by a gun.

 

I really don't understand why liberals haven't tried banning guns as a way to stop war in the world. That rationale is right up their alley

they have its called the international small arms treaty. its been brought up in the un every 6 months or so. so far its been voted down, but its only a matter of time before it becomes a real problem for the 2nd ammendment.

[WNYBuckHunter]

That small arms treaty wouldnt affect us at all. No international treaty can preempt the bill of rights. It would be detrimental to gun manufacturers and import/export businesses though.

[Doc]

That small arms treaty wouldnt affect us at all. No international treaty can preempt the bill of rights. It would be detrimental to gun manufacturers and import/export businesses though.

Right now we are hanging everything involving guns on the 2nd Amendment, as one would assume they could logically do. However, there have been gun laws that spit on the 2nd Amendment that have gotten passed and have become the law of the land. There have been legal challenges relating to the constitutionality of those laws that have been repeatedly shot down in the courts to the point where no one seems to have any problem proposing and passing even the most outrageous attacks on that amendment. This latest Cuomo gun-grab is clearly unconstitutional in my mind and yet there is a very real possibility that it will withstand all legal challenges that we can through at it. So, with those kinds of free-for-all legal interpretations that the 2nd Amendment has been subjected to, I'm not sure how much we can really count on it to protect us against a U.N. assault if they are somewhat careful about how they word it and what the contents of their proposals entail. Yes, they will need plenty of accomplices within this country to pull it off, but with guys like Obama, and perhaps followed by that crazy-eyed Cuomo creep, and all the other gun-grabbers that surround them in the government, there really doesn't look to be any shortages of "inside-men". I too would likje to think that we have iron-clad protection in the 2nd Amendment, but these days it doesn't seem to even be able to protect us from forces inside this country. I'm not sure that I have any confidence left that it will protect us from forces outside of the country either. 

[mike rossi]

Two of the vitims were corrections officers, one was retired. Did anything surface about them being armed?

Edited March 15, 2013 by mike rossi

[bowaholic]

My girlfriend is related to John the owner of John's barbershop.  A "friend" on facebook posted on her page how she feels that weapons are not needed and how they are the cause of crime.  The only crime here is that it is so hard to get concealed carry permits in many counties across this state.  I wish that someone in that barbershop was carrying and had dusted the sick bastard before anyone had even gotten killed.  I'm glad the cops made swiss cheese of this guy.

[Doc]

So, one thing that I haven't heard anything about is motive. Have they published anything about why he went after the ones that he went after?

[Setters4life]

So, one thing that I haven't heard anything about is motive. Have they published anything about why he went after the ones that he went after?

 

That we may never know, Myers was silenced forever.

[tuckersdaddy]

That we may never know, Myers was silenced forever.

im not against the police capping his can, but i wonder if all non lethal means were exhausted?  its easier to blame the gun when all other reasons are silenced. is that why cuomo was there? 

[New York Hillbilly]

I still think he took a page right out of the Webster maniac's play book, with just a little spin. The guy in Webster set fire to draw firemen and police in, whereas, the Herkimer maniac set fire to draw them away from those he wanted to kill. Then, both holed up for the big shoot out, Webster chickens out and kills self, Herkimer tries to one up him and go down shooting.

 

As I said before, I think it's weird how the two physically, look the same when you put their faces side by side. I can't help but wonder if in his sick mind, Herkimer, in some way identified with Webster. Sad, how they both caused so much pain to so many. 

[wztirem]

So, one thing that I haven't heard anything about is motive. Have they published anything about why he went after the ones that he went after?

 

We will never know..

 

God's speed to those innocent victims and God help the shooter.

[ants]

im not against the police capping his can, but i wonder if all non lethal means were exhausted?  its easier to blame the gun when all other reasons are silenced. is that why cuomo was there? 

 

Police will never,nor should they, face lethal force with non lethal force. You never would want to go up against a shot gun with a taser or a bean bag round. I think the last non lethal option was used before they shot the scum. That was the K-9 dog that the scum shot. At that point you wouldn't back out and call for a taser.

[tuckersdaddy]

Police will never,nor should they, face lethal force with non lethal force. You never would want to go up against a shot gun with a taser or a bean bag round. I think the last non lethal option was used before they shot the scum. That was the K-9 dog that the scum shot. At that point you wouldn't back out and call for a taser.

no not tasers. how much tear gas was pumped into the room before they entered? flash bangs? robot on site. was the room evaluated first? or did they send the dog in to be killed and while the dirt bag was preoccupied with the dog did they take him out? he was pinned in for what 12 to 14 hours why didnt they leave him there for 24, 48, or however long it took to save the dog and get the motive answers that are missing in every single one of these cases? am i upset he was taken out ? no. but without motives the true violence problems cant be addressed, and we get the shaft both gun owners and victims alike.

[Doc]

I think the question of motive will be answered when they complete interviewing friends and relatives. Someone who is so disturbed about something to the point he is willing to shoot somebody over it is usually not very quiet about it before hand.

[covert]

I'm perfectly comfortable with my ability to protect myself as well as my ability to be self reliant.  I've never felt the need to carry a weapon in the course of my daily life.  I'm sorry to hear that you feel so inadequate without one.  Is there really so much evidence out there that proves that carrying makes you safer, as opposed to just making you feel safer?

I feel perfectly comfortable in my ability to drive safely, yet I still carry auto insurance.  I'm perfectly comfortable in my ability to work safely yet I still carry Accidental Death and Dismemberment.  I don't drink, smoke or eat crap, I am more active than most and fairly young but I still carry health insurance and get my regularly scheduled screenings.  A concealed firearm is another form of insurance I carry for the same reason, because I don't have a crystal ball. 

 

I don't know when some drunk is going to plow into me, or when someone on a forklift isn't going to watch where they're going, or when life may throw a disease my way, or when some lunatic is going to walk in with a shotgun while I'm sitting in the barber chair.  I don't carry because it makes me feel "macho"; I carry because I am the last line of defense between my loved ones and the Goblins.  I don't think it will absolutely guarantee that I will come out on top but I certainly am going to make sure I have the ability to try.  I got in a fistfight in High school one time and the guy hit me three times before I got my hands out of my pockets.  I vowed that day to never get caught with my hands in my pockets again.