Possible Reasons for a Bad Gun Season?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

A) My Family and I have hunted the same land for more than 70yrs, you get to know your deer and patterns. Add trail cams now and the deer are just not there should one change their hunting tactics to hunt what's not there but for 70yrs have always been. If that's your answer You assume a lot, even on state land that's around private property here is always was good hunting. I use to be able to bow hunt right during Gun season and still see a lot of deer until a arrowed a big one. I did not go deer less but  things were bad you assume so much is a stretch, many very good hunters out there this year same results seeing less, seeing none, that's is a problem. Excuses these men don't make excuse nor do I, its a problem in some areas your thinking more like NYS DEC deer management, that's excuses. As far as nut crop it your hunting a very good area with the wind right and you killed deer there before and for 2mos 2 deer on 10 cams??? My friend change tactics and you know what same results, I changed tactics and you know what same results?? Oh mighty Renegade hunter please advise us ALL that according to you are making excuses, about the poor population or don't hunt right.

How long have you been using trail cameras?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

So in my area the following would help

- log the state land

- keep atv's off state land

- provide farmers incetives to allow hunters. most farms (200 ac or so) my way get leased by by small groups for about about $10K+ per year. I can't blame the farmer when he's paing close to $30K in taxes

- log the state land---I agree. too much mature forest and the revenue would be nice.

 

- keep atv's off state land-- They are illegal on any state land I have been on

 

- provide farmers incetives to allow hunters.---  I think the nuisance tags should be done away with. That would be incentive enough.

[the blur]

I saw no deer in the woods. They all are road side.

[Jeremy K]

I think the activity has been the same for us this year where we hunt, maybe a touch better then years past, we contributed it to nobody on the 300 acre lease next to us this year . Next year might be diffrent now that 12 guys went in on the lease. I still feel like outside influence is a huge part of hunting in NYS , it's also something that you really can't control.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Jeremy K

[phade]

Local observations are just that, local. The problem is drawing statewide or macro-area conclusions based on the current system.

 

We simply didn't have as many good bucks (3 year old +) running around as the year prior; doe numbers were slightly down or noticeably down on varying properties. It certainly wasn't the worst year ever, but next year brings into question whether the doe numbers will be similar and whether the pipeline of bucks made it through to be 3 or older.

[WNYBuckHunter]

- keep atv's off state land-- They are illegal on any state land I have been on

 

Although kind of tough to get, you can get disabled permits for them

[Bowshotmuzzleloader]

I believe the rut was a little early

[Renegade Hunter]

A) My Family and I have hunted the same land for more than 70yrs, you get to know your deer and patterns. Add trail cams now and the deer are just not there should one change their hunting tactics to hunt what's not there but for 70yrs have always been. If that's your answer You assume a lot, even on state land that's around private property here is always was good hunting. I use to be able to bow hunt right during Gun season and still see a lot of deer until a arrowed a big one. I did not go deer less but  things were bad you assume so much is a stretch, many very good hunters out there this year same results seeing less, seeing none, that's is a problem. Excuses these men don't make excuse nor do I, its a problem in some areas your thinking more like NYS DEC deer management, that's excuses. As far as nut crop it your hunting a very good area with the wind right and you killed deer there before and for 2mos 2 deer on 10 cams??? My friend change tactics and you know what same results, I changed tactics and you know what same results?? Oh mighty Renegade hunter please advise us ALL that according to you are making excuses, about the poor population or don't hunt right.

 

All I'm saying is I haven't had a problem seeing nor killing deer. There obviously has to be an issue if you aren't seeing them on your property. I don't know how many acres you have to hunt on, but unless you let other people come on and shoot all your deer, you really have no excuse other than poor tactics. I say if you have been seeing deer for the acclaimed 70 years, then you did something different this year to push the deer out, or you just don't know where to find them. I had trail cams set out too, didn't see hardly anything on them. Didn't see one of the multiple bucks I saw on our farm until I got in the woods and patterned the deer. (Poor camera placement) It wasn't until gun season that I actually closed in on and killed the buck I had patterned. All from seeing him with my actual eyes, finding his sign and figuring out what he was doing. I'm no expert hunter, but I am learning and I put in some good work this year with time in the woods. Maybe those old trustworthy, guaranteed stands aren't producing like they used to. Maybe they aren't feeding/bedding in the same areas. Tough telling. We scout later summer and stay out of the woods until the season opens. We use climbers. hunt a bunch of different areas. Go in, set up and hunt, get the hell out. No messing around. Scout on the way in and way out. Once the season is over, we don't enter those woods again until the following summer. It works.

[mmkay]

 

Classic Weekend-Warrior behavior. I would have climbed down and kicked him repeatedly in the a**. Made sure he wasn't capable of sitting under anyone else's tree.

he left after I pissed out of the tree.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Although kind of tough to get, you can get disabled permits for them

you can. I was speaking to general use. I didn't thing the OP was talking special use.

[Curmudgeon]

Western 4F: Deer everywhere on the private land. Few big bucks. As many coyote tracks as deer tracks in places. 8 of us killed 8 deer on 80 acres - 5 buck, 3 doe - 7 of them the first weekend. The Monday after opening weekend there were 21 feeding in a field across the road at 4 PM - 100 yards off the road.

 

The big problem here is different rules on each private land parcel. One adjacent farm is owned by deer lovers who allow no hunting ever. One is leased to a few guys who do little hunting and harvest few deer. The farm to my north was subdivided into about 10 properties of modest size - all posted by different people. I have a Christmas tree farm and can only allow hunting when I am not selling trees. People constantly ask for permission to hunt here. Get in line. Someone needs to die before there is room for another.

[nyantler]

Why is it that when we make a list of reasons for not seeing deer or a "bad" season... one thing that is never on the list is our ability as a deer hunter... 99 times out of 100.. it is something we are doing wrong... For example: Sitting in the same tree stand all season and not seeing deer isn't a bad season it's insane... hammering the same 100 acres of woods every day and not seeing a deer is not a bad season it's bad tactics

 

Whitetail populations can fluctuate everywhere in NY due to many different factors from year to year... a good or bad season is usually on the hunter... unless of course there are absolutely NO deer... If there are fewer deer.. the better hunters will still usually find and kill one.. and if they don't they usually have a heck of a good time doing it and still chalk it up to a good season of hunting.

 

When you have what you call a "bad" season it does much better to look at what YOU"RE doing and what you could do differently to be more successful. The population of deer in any area will always have it's up and down years

 

 

 

[Doc]

I was wondering if anyone else had any opinions on why a lot of us had a bad gun season here in the Southern Zone. I saw very few deer compared to past years, and many hunters in my area had the same experience. When we did see deer, they were small deer which we would not shoot, and they were few and far between. I have thought about this and have some ideas as to why we are seeing less deer during the firearms season. Here are some of my thoughts as to why:

 

1. Return of a large coyote population.

2. Early opening of archery season (Oct. 1).

3. Early crossbow season, 2 weeks before firearms season.

4. Early firearms youth hunt.

5. Too many deer management permits being given out in recent years.

6. Issuing of "deer nuisance" permits.

 

I was wondering if any of you had any thoughts on this. I think some changes will need to be made if we want to experience some good deer hunting in the future. What do you think?

 

1. Return of a large coyote population.

         Maybe

 

2. Early opening of archery season (Oct. 1).

         This cannot explain anything about current conditions because the southern Zone earlier archery season has not been in effect long enough to be impacting current populations.

 

3. Early crossbow season, 2 weeks before firearms season.

          This also cannot explain anything about current populations because this is the first year that they have been allowed outside of regular gun season. plus, I don't believe that we have begun to see large scale participation with crossbows ..... Yet.

 

4. Early firearms youth hunt.

           While I have never seen real harvest numbers I do not believe the participation is significant enough to have any impact on herd sizes.

 

5. Too many deer management permits being given out in recent years.

            Maybe

 

6. Issuing of "deer nuisance" permits.

            Maybe

 

Or maybe it is:

            crop harvests

            or outside  interferences Hikers, bikers, dog walkers, ATVs, dirt bikes, etc.

            or snowmobile harassment when deer are trying to maintain delicate winter fat reserve levels

            or dogs

            or a sudden change in preferred food availability

            or poaching

            or the introduction of rifles as deer hunting weapons during previous years (if that is the case)

            or rut activity can also move herds to different patterns

            or housing or other kinds of land development

            or habitat deterioration

            or previous years of over populations that are finally being brought under control.

            or any of the other possibilities that have already been mentioned.

[phade]

Why is it that when we make a list of reasons for not seeing deer or a "bad" season... one thing that is never on the list is our ability as a deer hunter... 99 times out of 100.. it is something we are doing wrong... For example: Sitting in the same tree stand all season and not seeing deer isn't a bad season it's insane... hammering the same 100 acres of woods every day and not seeing a deer is not a bad season it's bad tactics

 

Whitetail populations can fluctuate everywhere in NY due to many different factors from year to year... a good or bad season is usually on the hunter... unless of course there are absolutely NO deer... If there are fewer deer.. the better hunters will still usually find and kill one.. and if they don't they usually have a heck of a good time doing it and still chalk it up to a good season of hunting.

 

When you have what you call a "bad" season it does much better to look at what YOU"RE doing and what you could do differently to be more successful. The population of deer in any area will always have it's up and down years

 

I think people can differentiate the two...the factors they can control and the ones they can't or can only control minimally. I whole heartedly agree on the hunter skill and tactics, but there are also factors beyond control or minimally so.

 

You can have a bad season on the macro level and still have a successful season given the limits of the macro situation. That's where I and my friends fell this season. Not a whole heck of a lot of target bucks, slightly lower to noticeably lower doe numbers. Our kills reflect that to a degree. That said, mistakes were also made that would have turned this season from so-so, to pretty darn good. Leaving a stand 15 minutes early, accidentally releasing an arrow while at full draw, and chosing the wrong stand location out of the two that were the logical choices, only to have the target show up at the other. These are things that happened this year that we could control, but also things that you just have to chalk up to bad luck at times...the what ifs can really eat away at the enjoyment of this sport.

[mmkay]

 

Why is it that when we make a list of reasons for not seeing deer or a "bad" season... one thing that is never on the list is our ability as a deer hunter... 99 times out of 100.. it is something we are doing wrong... For example: Sitting in the same tree stand all season and not seeing deer isn't a bad season it's insane... hammering the same 100 acres of woods every day and not seeing a deer is not a bad season it's bad tactics

 

Whitetail populations can fluctuate everywhere in NY due to many different factors from year to year... a good or bad season is usually on the hunter... unless of course there are absolutely NO deer... If there are fewer deer.. the better hunters will still usually find and kill one.. and if they don't they usually have a heck of a good time doing it and still chalk it up to a good season of hunting.

 

When you have what you call a "bad" season it does much better to look at what YOU"RE doing and what you could do differently to be more successful. The population of deer in any area will always have it's up and down years

I have to agree with you. In my area of the state Putnam/ Westchester and Duchess, 75% of one’s success is determined before you hit the woods. If you get a good farm, or Westchester estate, you are almost guaranteed a wall hanger.

This year, my limited sighting were due to not spending the spring and summer knocking on doors getting land owner permission. I’ve found my best years are those were I have at least a dozen places to hunt. This year, I had only a few private parcels and let my nephews hunt them. I went to teh state land. I’ve already taken enough deer in my lifetime. A successful season to me is not seeing anyone on opening day and enjoying the time away from work /wife.

[nyantler]

I think people can differentiate the two...the factors they can control and the ones they can't or can only control minimally. I whole heartedly agree on the hunter skill and tactics, but there are also factors beyond control or minimally so.

 

You can have a bad season on the macro level and still have a successful season given the limits of the macro situation. That's where I and my friends fell this season. Not a whole heck of a lot of target bucks, slightly lower to noticeably lower doe numbers. Our kills reflect that to a degree. That said, mistakes were also made that would have turned this season from so-so, to pretty darn good. Leaving a stand 15 minutes early, accidentally releasing an arrow while at full draw, and chosing the wrong stand location out of the two that were the logical choices, only to have the target show up at the other. These are things that happened this year that we could control, but also things that you just have to chalk up to bad luck at times...the what ifs can really eat away at the enjoyment of this sport.

 

Sometimes it's hard for me to grasp the "bad" season concept... unlike most hunters I don't judge my hunting experience by deer kills... killing deer is the easy part... making sure it continues to blow my skirt up is a bit harder... I have been fortunate to have avoided being completely skunked for nearly 30 years... each year different in some ways but never bad... a bad season for me would be not being able to get out and hunt at all... as focused and determined as I am when I am hunting I rarely take hunting so seriously that it can't be enjoyed and blunders laughed at... like I've always said here.. some of my best hunting experiences and hunts have been when I didn't kill the deer.. as well as some of my most memorable deer seasons have been when I didn't get a nice buck... usually for me sealing the deal is merely a bonus to an already great hunt...

 

For example.. yesterday I came up a mature buck bedded with a doe in the middle of a huge corn lot... I spent 3 hours slowly crawling about 400 yards in a cut cornfield to get into range of the nice buck... only to have the doe get up just before getting into range and trot off, taking the buck with her. Bad? Not in the least... one of the coolest hunting experiences of my life... disappointed? not really.. I have until next Tuesday to hunt him with the smoke pole... the glass is always half full here.

[HuntOrBeHunted]

Can't shoot a deer from the computer chair I know that. Hunt don't type.

[nyantler]

 

I have to agree with you. In my area of the state Putnam/ Westchester and Duchess, 75% of one’s success is determined before you hit the woods. If you get a good farm, or Westchester estate, you are almost guaranteed a wall hanger.

This year, my limited sighting were due to not spending the spring and summer knocking on doors getting land owner permission. I’ve found my best years are those were I have at least a dozen places to hunt. This year, I had only a few private parcels and let my nephews hunt them. I went to teh state land. I’ve already taken enough deer in my lifetime. A successful season to me is not seeing anyone on opening day and enjoying the time away from work /wife.

 

I get the most kick out of killing a big buck in a place where most guys think there are no good bucks.. I have done it numerous times after being invited to friend's hunting camps where nobody has ever seen a big buck... funny though... I never seem to get a second invite..LOL

 

I have Dairy farmer buddy that can only hunt 3 or 4 days a year... 5 times in a good year... he has killed a mature buck in the ADK's 20 out of the last 21 seasons... in areas where the deer density is so low most guys wouldn't even hunt there... he doesn't let his lack of hunting time or lack of deer determine the outcome of his hunting seasons... predation, limited food source, nasty weather.. etc... don't seem to be a factor to him when it comes to harvesting a deer. Never heard him complain about a bad season despite the limited opportunity.

[phade]

Sometimes it's hard for me to grasp the "bad" season concept... unlike most hunters I don't judge my hunting experience by deer kills... killing deer is the easy part... making sure it continues to blow my skirt up is a bit harder... I have been fortunate to have avoided being completely skunked for nearly 30 years... each year different in some ways but never bad... a bad season for me would be not being able to get out and hunt at all... as focused and determined as I am when I am hunting I rarely take hunting so seriously that it can't be enjoyed and blunders laughed at... like I've always said here.. some of my best hunting experiences and hunts have been when I didn't kill the deer.. as well as some of my most memorable deer seasons have been when I didn't get a nice buck... usually for me sealing the deal is merely a bonus to an already great hunt...

 

For example.. yesterday I came up a mature buck bedded with a doe in the middle of a huge corn lot... I spent 3 hours slowly crawling about 400 yards in a cut cornfield to get into range of the nice buck... only to have the doe get up just before getting into range and trot off, taking the buck with her. Bad? Not in the least... one of the coolest hunting experiences of my life... disappointed? not really.. I have until next Tuesday to hunt him with the smoke pole... the glass is always half full here.

 

 

This is a hard subject.

 

What we judge is independent, as is our decision as to how we hunt. Nobody is the same. I had some really great experiences this hunting season. Stuff that continues to amaze me and great experiences with my friends and getting deer (and missing them and turkeys, too). Moog took his daughter out hunting and wanted to try to ensure she got an experience and asked that someone shoot a doe (or a good buck, lol) so she could help track, make the experience memorable. I shot two doe, just to be sure, ha. I also repaid a hunting favor for a friend/mentor, with him getting a deer.

 

That said, this season was pretty darn mediocre for me, and I shot a decent buck and three does. I had a string of multiple encounters with good bucks, including one collosal screwup that I will still anguish over when I am no longer able to hunt.

 

I do think this is somewhat of a generational or age thing as I feel the need to justify my time and money spent with results. You are long in the tooth compared to me, no offense, and maybe I'll get there someday, but going home empty-handed with good experiences is still coming home empty-handed (or without meeting goals). Sure, I learn. Sure I get to see stuff most people don't. But, at the end of the day, the stupid amount of hours I put into hunting needs to have some relevancy in payoff for me.

 

I will say, I could have had the same degree of success with the buck and three does, and if my friends also got bucks to their liking or satisfaction, I would have rated my season as being much more successful. That's a quandry, isn't it?

Edited December 8, 2014 by phade

[GreeneHunter]

Possible reason for me was I didnt get off my fat a$$ often enough to get a decent buck or doe !

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Only got four does this year so far. Still have ML season and I am usually pretty luck there. But if I hadn't scored a deer, sitting next to my nephew while he took his first deer ever and it was a nice spike, ranks this as one of the best seasons I have had.

[Bowshotmuzzleloader]

I start my hunting season the same every year !!! With the expectation of not seeing or killing a deer, then I'm not disappointed ...

I saw many , many deer this bow season and had encounters with two mature 8 points but couldn't get it done ,,, I passed many doe and young bucks ,, that's hunting ..

Being in the woods enjoying the outdoors is a blessing in itself...

Be thankful you are healthy and able to hunt many are not as fortunate..killing a deer is not only the only part of being successful...

Everybody's goals and hunting experience are different...Mine is taking a 2 1/2 or older deer,, I got two in front of me this year that to me is a success..

[Huntscreek]

We have used cams over the year large area of land so checking them is no different than turkey or coon hunting, predator hunting the land in and out.

No we did not change a thing same feed other than poor year for apples good for nuts, The neighbor's than boarder around us all have seen the same thing we talk each night after the days hunt. No one hunting the land  other than us we became a custom to being hard on trespasser's, we all look out for each other.  Stand placement is determined by many factors ways in & out, wind direction, and sitting on food sources from different angles, hunting the scrape line which has opened the same areas over the years Yes a scrape pattern. Snow was on for a while and in a 3day old snow you could count each separate deer tracks on one hand, your talking 3/4 of a square mile of land. So tactics are you have to know the lay of the land and that I know, you need to know food sources that I know, you have to know your bedding areas That I know, you have to know your breeding activity and scape line that I know. So I know which and where and when to hunt areas, so if they are not there to hunt you can talk tactics all you want. Like I said before in tis area I was able to bow hunt while gun season was on with success using Tactics. Now there are no carcasses or kill spots so I question that cause coyotes leave sign, The only thing within around here is Amish all over, now people in another area had this problem and found Amish killing deer in the summer, now I have not witnessed myself but those farmers have land like ours which provided deer for generations and they seen this drop off and found that to be a problem. Now is it happening here I'd have to no for sure don't want to assume to much, but I will tell you this a heavy population of whitetail  could make even the most piss poor hunter look like his tactics work only because he has more chances to kill one.

[JFB]

Seems if you are in an area that contains certain 'communities' ,  it only takes a couple of poachers to destroy the local hunting.

 

Ding, ding, ding... we have a winner! The local idiots know exactly where they can park/hide and drive deer while they trespass. Lob 5 shots at a time and sure enough they manage to kill some big bucks meanwhile shutting down movement. 

 

My season wasn't poor... but it would be soooo much better if the DEC changed the seasons to not make it 4 weeks of slaughter, part of which typically is in the active part of the rut. 

 

Oh yeah... note to DEC, deer are a resource not a nuisance. 

[nyantler]

This is a hard subject.

 

What we judge is independent, as is our decision as to how we hunt. Nobody is the same. I had some really great experiences this hunting season. Stuff that continues to amaze me and great experiences with my friends and getting deer (and missing them and turkeys, too). Moog took his daughter out hunting and wanted to try to ensure she got an experience and asked that someone shoot a doe (or a good buck, lol) so she could help track, make the experience memorable. I shot two doe, just to be sure, ha. I also repaid a hunting favor for a friend/mentor, with him getting a deer.

 

That said, this season was pretty darn mediocre for me, and I shot a decent buck and three does. I had a string of multiple encounters with good bucks, including one collosal screwup that I will still anguish over when I am no longer able to hunt.

 

I do think this is somewhat of a generational or age thing as I feel the need to justify my time and money spent with results. You are long in the tooth compared to me, no offense, and maybe I'll get there someday, but going home empty-handed with good experiences is still coming home empty-handed (or without meeting goals). Sure, I learn. Sure I get to see stuff most people don't. But, at the end of the day, the stupid amount of hours I put into hunting needs to have some relevancy in payoff for me.

 

I will say, I could have had the same degree of success with the buck and three does, and if my friends also got bucks to their liking or satisfaction, I would have rated my season as being much more successful. That's a quandry, isn't it?

 

It certainly is... different goals is good... if we all were the same, life wouldn't be as much fun.. with little to talk about. Getting longer in the tooth has turned out to not be such a bad thing for me... I certainly needed to get a little wiser and slow down some based on my wild younger days... probably wouldn't hurt me to get a little wiser yet!

 

My biggest point here though would be that regardless of how we determine the success of our season... it usually can not be blamed on outside sources, but rather on our own skills and/or short comings as a hunter... I'm sure you're a lot like me that if something isn't working.. you try something different... if we continue to do something that gets no results.. why would we expect anything to change?