Looks like there may just be statewide Antler Restricts.

[wildcat junkie]

Here is the "poster child" for the argumant against ARs.

4 1/2 yrs old, 219# dressed weight 4 point!

"Bullet proof" deer under ARs & I never saw another mature buck in the area until I killed him.

I won't shoot a young buck anymore, but I have a young man in his mid 20s hunting my place for deer on his 1st season next year. It would suck if he couldn't shoot the 1st buck he saw if he had an ethical shot.

Edited January 6, 2015 by wildcat junkie

[BizCT]

So you have no interest in actual resource management for the health of the herd? Maybe  provide some venison donations. It's all about a trophy to mount?

 

I would say I hunt deer in NY 3-7 full days per year between full day Saturdays, 1/2 day Sunday, 1/2 day TGiving, etc.  There's no way I am going to give up any of this small amount of hunting time to shoot a doe, drag it out, drive it to the butcher to donate. I'm lucky if I see 1-2 bucks per year, so that's all I'm interested in.  In years past, I shot any buck I saw, now I try to hold out for something bigger. If I see a buck I like I shoot it, keep the backstraps, and donate the rest to a foodbank through the butcher I use.  Where I hunt (3N - Putnam County) is not a place where I go and see 20 does in a day anyway. I would say typically there is a 50/50 chance that when I see a deer, its a buck. Many full days I hunt and don't even see 1 deer.

[jjb4900]

antler restrictions need a lot more than just hunters passing on bucks till they have 3pts on one side to work.........

Edited January 6, 2015 by jjb4900

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I would say I hunt deer in NY 3-7 full days per year between full day Saturdays, 1/2 day Sunday, 1/2 day TGiving, etc. There's no way I am going to give up any of this small amount of hunting time to shoot a doe, drag it out, drive it to the butcher to donate. I'm lucky if I see 1-2 bucks per year, so that's all I'm interested in. In years past, I shot any buck I saw, now I try to hold out for something bigger. If I see a buck I like I shoot it, keep the backstraps, and donate the rest to a foodbank through the butcher I use. Where I hunt (3N - Putnam County) is not a place where I go and see 20 does in a day anyway. I would say typically there is a 50/50 chance that when I see a deer, its a buck. Many full days I hunt and don't even see 1 deer.

But per your scenario. If you had "tons of land". You would hunt the same way and expect the same opportunities?

[BizCT]

But per your scenario. If you had "tons of land". You would hunt the same way and expect the same opportunities?

Given the amount of days I hunt, I wouldn't waste time with does (unless piebald or albino) no matter how much land I had access to. I actually have access to several hundred acres in Chenango County, but haven't hunted it in probably 10 years. Just too far to go for 1 day of hunting.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited January 6, 2015 by Biz-R-OWorld

[HuntOrBeHunted]

They keep preeing new laws it ust makes more and more people hunting illegaly. People will still shoot deer with small/few points. It will never end. Hike the prices of hunting make all these crazy rules it will just lead to a free for all.

 

 

Everything in NY is so over controlled. What is wrong with the deer population??

[The_Field_Ager]

Two season ago, I took a 9 point 1.5 year old.

 

This year I ended up having to harvest a 7 point 1.5 year old. He was a fatty too

Edited January 6, 2015 by Papist

[Lawdwaz]

I don't care about venison that much.

 

What a shame..........your choice I know but you and your family are missing so much.

 

Maybe you should re-visit venison if/when you & pops cork one next fall.  There are so many great ways to fix it as you've seen on this site.  For all we see daily on the news about all the shiiit put in all the domestic beef, chicken, fish etc why in the heck wouldn't you want to eat more venison??

 

You said your brother goes to UB, right?  Have him hook up with me and I'll give you (and it breaks my heart to give it away, seriously) a few packages. Ground, back straps and sausage but you HAVE to pay attention to cooking instructions.  You know I'm serious on this offer.  PM me if you'd like............

 

 

Back to AR, OBR and other ABC BS..................................sorry for the derail.  (again)

[BizCT]

What a shame..........your choice I know but you and your family are missing so much.

 

Maybe you should re-visit venison if/when you & pops cork one next fall.  There are so many great ways to fix it as you've seen on this site.  For all we see daily on the news about all the shiiit put in all the domestic beef, chicken, fish etc why in the heck wouldn't you want to eat more venison??

 

You said your brother goes to UB, right?  Have him hook up with me and I'll give you (and it breaks my heart to give it away, seriously) a few packages. Ground, back straps and sausage but you HAVE to pay attention to cooking instructions.  You know I'm serious on this offer.  PM me if you'd like............

 

 

Back to AR, OBR and other ABC BS..................................sorry for the derail.  (again)

 

Thanks for the offer. Don't get me wrong, I do like it. Just not enough to spend the time shooting a doe and losing that time I could have a chance at a buck. I used to pay $90 and get a whole deer butchered and ate it all, but then the opportunity to get backstraps/steaks only and donate the rest for free seemed like a better deal for me.

[Five Seasons]

I think AR's limiting deer to having 3 on one side does not necessarily mean your taking a mature deer. Plenty of 1 year and 5 month  and 1 year and 7 month old out there that have 3 on one side. Kinda defeats the purpose of trying to promote more mature bucks when you are taking out some of the better genetics. If that is part of the route NYS is thinking.

 

I prefer the spread and beam AR. 10" spread or 13" beam length.

So much for it being about population control.  Sound to me like the DEC is catering to trophy hunting vs deer management.

 

For me its not about being greedy and wanting 2 bucks it is about paying for a lifetime license that said I had 2 separate tags.  One paid for to hunt with a bow and a separate one I paid to hunt with a rifle. 

 

your trohphy hunters are what pays for the tags. Who honestly hunts because their wives shrubs are being eaten? with the exception of farmers hardly any of you are hunting because you want to control the heard.

 

I personally can't see the OBR providing much until they stiffen up poaching penalties. I would be for it but until they make breaking the rules realllllly hurt, it will just be wives and kids and grandpas that take the first bucks.

 

I agree that poaching is a problem, but sometimes I think we make it sound like everyone is a poacher. I have no idea what the stats are and we all know some bad eggs, but I believe generally most hunters are following the tagging rules. A poacher tomorrow is probably a poacher now. It wouldn't change much.

 

So you have no interest in actual resource management for the health of the herd? Maybe  provide some venison donations. It's all about a trophy to mount?

 

We agreed on this forum a while ago not to judge hunters for why they hunt. If he hunts for horns we have to respect that. I hunt for horns too... after my freezer is full.

 

here we are, arguing religion and politics again. 

 

 

 

I do like the folks that want to distinguish between the "meat hunter" and the "trophy hunter" 

 

 

If you truly want to master hunting hunt a 4.5-5.5 year old doe. She doesn't ever get stupid cause she needs get breed.  But that would make you a meat hunter. 

 

Or go up into the high tug hill or Adirondacks and find a 2.5 year old spike with 12 inch horns, ooops, can't shoot him.... when its the only buck I've seen up there in 3 years?  C'mon. 

 

Hunting should be what you take out of it and television, with their advertisers are destroying the camaraderie that should be an integral part of the sport. It's gone folks, right now it's ME, ME ME, My and I.

 

I had more trouble hunting young doe on public land than mature bucks on private. It's all relative. I don't believe you have to be one or the other. You're simply a hunter. You should be in it for your own reasons and follow the rules while you're doing it... even if you don't like them.

 

 

  I don't agree with ARs.  I don't feel the state or anyone has the right to tell a kid he can't shoot a 4 pt for his first buck bc it doesn't have enough pts.! The other thing is I buy property, pay the taxes on it, do food plots & other improvements on it & someone tells me I can't shoot what I want more BS.  Myself & friends that hunt the property impose our own ARs  most won't shoot anything less than a really nice 6 pt. or better. (one guy shot a 19.5" wide 6 pt this season). If someone wants a doe for the freezer more power to him &  same goes for the kid that wants to shoot his first spike buck.   Meat or trophy hunter, shoot what YOU  want!

 

in most states with ARs they do not apply to youth. I wouldn't want them to apply to youth in NY either.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Belo

[hunter49]

  I don't agree with ARs.  I don't feel the state or anyone has the right to tell a kid he can't shoot a 4 pt for his first buck bc it doesn't have enough pts.! The other thing is I buy property, pay the taxes on it, do food plots & other improvements on it & someone tells me I can't shoot what I want more BS.  Myself & friends that hunt the property impose our own ARs  most won't shoot anything less than a really nice 6 pt. or better. (one guy shot a 19.5" wide 6 pt this season). If someone wants a doe for the freezer more power to him &  same goes for the kid that wants to shoot his first spike buck.   Meat or trophy hunter, shoot what YOU  want!

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I still believe they want more does shot so they will force the hand on the bucks and people will shoot more does. It will work that way for many. All parts of Ny are far from equal but there are parts of Ny that could produce bucks like Ohio.illy and such, if givin the time. If they are thinking more on Non resident hunters then that would be the way to go. They are going to split up the state so there will be confusion by many hunters i am sure, along with the ECO!

[bubba]

shoot more does is great except in areas like mine with no dmp, or one every 4 or 5 years.  I may as well save my money and stay home and watch the sportsmens channel.

[First-light]

I have a camp next to me all are from out of state. I know its a small percentage but they don't get doe permits. Maybe they should start there!! These guys love venison……...

[phade]

I agree that stiffer penalties/deterrents are needed.

 

The understaffing, even with the recent report saying the DEC was understaffed, means little to nothing as to boots on the ground being effective.

 

Three ECOs for a county? That's one and sometimes TWO more than the counties in Ohio I hunt. One of the counties has 125,000 people in it.

 

Sure poaching is an issue there, but reasonably safe to assume its less of an issue. Poaching a 200"er here is relatively minor as far as penalties go. Do that in Ohio, and the government garnishes your wages and taxes for $30k, or more.

 

Bottom line is - every single DNR/DEC agency in the continental US is understaffed. Us being understaffed is no different than Ohio, or IL. Thus stiffer deterrents if caught, make more fiscally responsible impact than boots on the ground. I think we'd all like more ECOs than present time, but that's not happening. Because its not realistic, basic changes in penalties are much cheaper and should be pushed forward.

[JFB]

I've been trying to hold out for bigger bucks lately, but maybe because of people like you & comments like that, I'll shoot the next forkie I see, just because I can. "Entitled"? You're damn right people should be entitled to shoot whatever deer they want. Everyone pays for a license, why should you be "entitled" to say how they use it? If you want to hunt for racks, good for you. Buy your own land and implement AR on it, but why should you have any say over public land or especially someone else's private land? Meat hunters are "hunters" just like the trophy guys. I'm willing to bet there's meat hunters out there who are much more skilled than you. Who's the one acting entitled?

 

Well if my single comment is enough to make alter what you shoot, thats pretty sad but I can't say I'm surprised. Nor am I surprised when I see the camo clad moron at the gas station in his rubber boots, or at Dicks buying his gun the week of the season, or when you shoot yearlings year after year after year despite hunting a high deer density area. The world is full of under achievers and entitlement. 

 

Personally I'd settle for one buck rule and if they shorten the gun season or make it a touch later it would be icing on the cake. 

 

I just returned home from Ohio... They have a one buck rule, a one week shot gun season (three round limit per gun), and just under a week ML season along with a long archery season. My goodness, how do those poor poor Ohio hunters ever survive (sarcasm)?

 

You'd probably implode if you had to obey such laws that nurture the resource rather than deplete the nuisance. If NY makes regulations that fit each area of the state based on their needs as is being suggested, the overall herd will be far better off. 

[stoneam2006]

Interesting how many would support ar laws and more laws to make mature deer more likely to be taken but when it came down to having a law requiring Mandatory orange for first and last light all thought there was to many laws already????? Wth

[phade]

Interesting how many would support ar laws and more laws to make mature deer more likely to be taken but when it came down to having a law requiring Mandatory orange for first and last light all thought there was to many laws already????? Wth

 

One manages resources, the other manages Darwinism.

[Jennifer]

shoot more does is great except in areas like mine with no dmp, or one every 4 or 5 years.  I may as well save my money and stay home and watch the sportsmens channel.

 

Same here, Bubba. I usually only score a doe tag once every 2-3 years via preference points. When I don't draw a doe tag, I pray to take a buck- any legal buck- because the venison is very important to my family. Would I like a larger buck? Of course, there is more meat on those guys, but any buck is blessing to us. It's very hard for us to afford to travel much to other parts of the state that have more DMPs to give out.

 

The state is too large and diverse in terms of habitat, population, and deer herd to fairly implement statewide, "one-size-fits-all" AR. But I suppose that is just my opinion, and it hardly matters...

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I prefer the spread and beam AR. 10" spread or 13" beam length.

 

 

 

 

.

 

 

We agreed on this forum a while ago not to judge hunters for why they hunt. If he hunts for horns we have to respect that. I hunt for horns too... after my freezer is full.

 

 

 

First, in many parts of the states what you described can easily still be a 1.5 year old deer. so why not just shoot the spike then?

 

Secondly, questions in an attempt to understand another hunter's motivations is judging? Even if it was, who is the "we" that agreed? Now as hunters we are so thin skinned that we can't be questioned?  Biz had thicker skin that that. I really don't care what any of you take, just could never understand the unwillingness to take a doe if the population warrants it. To me he has a legitimate reason. The ones I do have a problem with are the guys tat apply for tags and have no intention of using them, just so others can't get them.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I agree that stiffer penalties/deterrents are needed.

 

The understaffing, even with the recent report saying the DEC was understaffed, means little to nothing as to boots on the ground being effective.

 

Three ECOs for a county? That's one and sometimes TWO more than the counties in Ohio I hunt. One of the counties has 125,000 people in it.

 

Sure poaching is an issue there, but reasonably safe to assume its less of an issue. Poaching a 200"er here is relatively minor as far as penalties go. Do that in Ohio, and the government garnishes your wages and taxes for $30k, or more.

 

Bottom line is - every single DNR/DEC agency in the continental US is understaffed. Us being understaffed is no different than Ohio, or IL. Thus stiffer deterrents if caught, make more fiscally responsible impact than boots on the ground. I think we'd all like more ECOs than present time, but that's not happening. Because its not realistic, basic changes in penalties are much cheaper and should be pushed forward.

Surcharge the fines or increase them to fund more staffing. The Feds moved some of OSHA's fine structure to fund their boots on the ground efforts. Can't see why that wouldn't work.

[Five Seasons]

First, in many parts of the states what you described can easily still be a 1.5 year old deer. so why not just shoot the spike then?

 

Secondly, questions in an attempt to understand another hunter's motivations is judging? Even if it was, who is the "we" that agreed? Now as hunters we are so thin skinned that we can't be questioned?  Biz had thicker skin that that. I really don't care what any of you take, just could never understand the unwillingness to take a doe if the population warrants it. To me he has a legitimate reason. The ones I do have a problem with are the guys tat apply for tags and have no intention of using them, just so others can't get them.

 

In MS there are ARs. For most of the state it's 10" spread and 13" beam. For the Delta where they grow bigger deer it's 12". You adjust for the region. You will never get 100% of the deer, but you will get a large percentage of them.

 

To your second point, that's fair enough. It just seems that this site has a tendency to bash the trophy hunter and the meat hunter can do no wrong.

[Skillet]

Well if my single comment is enough to make alter what you shoot, thats pretty sad but I can't say I'm surprised. Nor am I surprised when I see the camo clad moron at the gas station in his rubber boots, or at Dicks buying his gun the week of the season, or when you shoot yearlings year after year after year despite hunting a high deer density area. The world is full of under achievers and entitlement.

Personally I'd settle for one buck rule and if they shorten the gun season or make it a touch later it would be icing on the cake.

I just returned home from Ohio... They have a one buck rule, a one week shot gun season (three round limit per gun), and just under a week ML season along with a long archery season. My goodness, how do those poor poor Ohio hunters ever survive (sarcasm)?

You'd probably implode if you had to obey such laws that nurture the resource rather than deplete the nuisance. If NY makes regulations that fit each area of the state based on their needs as is being suggested, the overall herd will be far better off.

Whatever you say. Nothing about shooting a small buck is under achieving. You need a big set of antlers to make you feel like a man? LOL. Maybe you're compensating for something you lack? Talking crap make you feel better? I like your sarcasm. You're cute. Like I already said, (if you'd read, instead of going off half cocked) a 1 buck rule would be fine with me, as long as I get to choose the buck. I don't think shortening the gun season is a bad idea either. Edited January 6, 2015 by Skillet

[jjb4900]

In MS there are ARs. For most of the state it's 10" spread and 13" beam. For the Delta where they grow bigger deer it's 12". You adjust for the region. You will never get 100% of the deer, but you will get a large percentage of them.

 

To your second point, that's fair enough. It just seems that this site has a tendency to bash the trophy hunter and the meat hunter can do no wrong.

I can count points, but how the heck is anyone supposed to be able to accurately judge inches? obviously it's done, but gotta be tricky.

[SteveB]

In MS there are ARs. For most of the state it's 10" spread and 13" beam. For the Delta where they grow bigger deer it's 12". You adjust for the region. You will never get 100% of the deer, but you will get a large percentage of them.

You just described nearly all the 2.5's in 7J. How will making them the main target get any bucks to maturity?