Looks like there may just be statewide Antler Restricts.

[BizCT]

Maybe NY goes a totally different and does it like the western states (CO, WY, AZ, etc.) with a draw.  Certain areas of the state like Adirondacks and Catskills would be easier to draw tags, while the trophy farmland units would take multiple years of points to draw 1 buck tag. I could only imagine the crying on this site if guys only got to hunt a buck once every 4-6 years.

Edited January 7, 2015 by Biz-R-OWorld

[phade]

I agree 100% about giving ALL hunters the opportunity to participate in the survey, sending out only 7000 questionnaires to randomly selected hunters, in no way guarantees they'd be getting a fair mixture of ideas..............I know everyone is welcome to attend the open meetings, but we all know that's not possible. I wrote several emails regarding my opposition to AR's prior to us getting them, but I never got any type of response in return, so who knows how much weight an outside response from a single person even has.

 

Everyone wants to be loved. Me me me.

 

They see 7,000 and think there is no way possible to get an accurate gauge on the sentiment of the hunting community in NY. No way possible. Not at all. Never a chance.

 

I must surmise that these same people that feel this way know more about survey methodology, stats, and analytics than Cornell University's SRI. It's not like it's one of the leading institutes in the freaking world or anything. Nor does it have experts educated from other top world-ranking colleges...like Stanford, Beijng Normal, or University of Chicago...

 

People are literally whining about the brightest minds in the industry working on this. I just don't get it.

[Lawdwaz]

Maybe NY goes a totally different and does it like the western states (CO, WY, AZ, etc.) with a draw.  Certain areas of the state like Adirondacks and Catskills would be easier to draw tags, while the trophy farmland units would take multiple years of points to draw 1 buck tag. I could only imagine the crying on this site if guys only got to hunt a buck once every 4-6 years.

 

That is like comparing apples to orangutangs. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Everyone wants to be loved. Me me me.

 

They see 7,000 and think there is no way possible to get an accurate gauge on the sentiment of the hunting community in NY. No way possible. Not at all. Never a chance.

 

I must surmise that these same people that feel this way know more about survey methodology, stats, and analytics than Cornell University's SRI. It's not like it's one of the leading institutes in the freaking world or anything. Nor does it have experts educated from other top world-ranking colleges...like Stanford, Beijng Normal, or University of Chicago...

 

People are literally whining about the brightest minds in the industry working on this. I just don't get it.

I think it is more of the "Doubting Thomas Principle". When the people in your circles haven't seen a survey and don't share any views that are touted as the overwhelming response to the survey, the little voice on the shoulder can easily question the validity of it.  

 

I remember threads on here during the last survey and IIRC not one member had received the survey or knew anyone that did. It would also help if they at least published how they sampled the NY hunting population. In my book, random across the state doesn't cut it for making regional decisions. I would also be curious how they control for variables like responses from large land owners vs small land owners vs hunters that only have access to public land. I believe all of these make a big difference in attitudes, goals and expectations. I would also expect that how much time a person has available to hunt would weigh in to this.

[First-light]

From NYON 11/13

Edited January 7, 2015 by First-light

[adkbuck]

Here is a DEC slide show presentation which will give some additional insights as to what the DEC thinking is. 

buckppt2013.pdf

 

 

Edited January 7, 2015 by adkbuck

[jjb4900]

Everyone wants to be loved. Me me me.

 

They see 7,000 and think there is no way possible to get an accurate gauge on the sentiment of the hunting community in NY. No way possible. Not at all. Never a chance.

 

I must surmise that these same people that feel this way know more about survey methodology, stats, and analytics than Cornell University's SRI. It's not like it's one of the leading institutes in the freaking world or anything. Nor does it have experts educated from other top world-ranking colleges...like Stanford, Beijng Normal, or University of Chicago...

 

People are literally whining about the brightest minds in the industry working on this. I just don't get it.

so since there are geniuses working on this, I shouldn't bother to send emails or make phone calls with my opinion on any of these matters because that would be considered being selfish and whiny? I've always been told not to complain if you did nothing to promote or fight an issue, guess I'll leave it to the professional's from this point on.

[The_Field_Ager]

 Don't force your opinions don't my throat and judge me when I disagree. 

 

I bet this never happens in reality.

[stoneam2006]

If somebody knows a good place to send emails with concerns would you please post it so the rest could voice their opinions?

[phade]

Tell me more about Ohio and Kentucky...........When did they make the changes?  How are they similar to NYS?

 

What does "worked well" mean and in whose eyes has it worked well?

 

OBR has worked in those states to produce quality bucks and a quality hunting experience...older age class buck harvest structure as a result.

 

Ohio is similar based on alot of data points. Similar hunter density, similar wide spectrum of soil quality (our NZ/SZ line is comparable to their NE/SW line). Similar ag productivity, similar forested %.

 

Ohio has much better deer hunting on a macro level.

[mjac]

I would be ok with antler restictions for only the late bow/muzzy season.   If the smaller guys make it through early bow and reg. season  they should be let to  grow until next season . Just a thought

[phade]

I think it is more of the "Doubting Thomas Principle". When the people in your circles haven't seen a survey and don't share any views that are touted as the overwhelming response to the survey, the little voice on the shoulder can easily question the validity of it.  

 

I remember threads on here during the last survey and IIRC not one member had received the survey or knew anyone that did. It would also help if they at least published how they sampled the NY hunting population. In my book, random across the state doesn't cut it for making regional decisions. I would also be curious how they control for variables like responses from large land owners vs small land owners vs hunters that only have access to public land. I believe all of these make a big difference in attitudes, goals and expectations. I would also expect that how much time a person has available to hunt would weigh in to this.

 

 

Someone did get it from this site, they even posted a photo of the survey. I think they got it before it even made the news IIRC. I ended up getting one, but I can't remember if it was this most recent one or not.

 

I do remember there was information on how they sampled the population to get a random sample that was reliable and valid. Can't remember for the life of me how they explained it though.

 

What I do remember was that there was a ton of questions on the front end about where I hunt, the breakdown of time in the field, public, private, landowner, how I got access, etc. Those were there to ID the variable so they could factor in weighting appropriately. Then it went into sentiment and rating potential changes.

 

I felt like I went through a marathon afterwards. It was alot of Qs. Actually thought it was too many at one point, but after taking a break and looking at my answers, I could connect the dots why they asked what they did.

[First-light]

33.8 lbs

[moog5050]

33.8 lbs

 Would be illegal with ARs.  lol  That's a hog not a raccoon.

[Doc]

I agree 100% about giving ALL hunters the opportunity to participate in the survey, sending out only 7000 questionnaires to randomly selected hunters, in no way guarantees they'd be getting a fair mixture of ideas..............I know everyone is welcome to attend the open meetings, but we all know that's not possible. I wrote several emails regarding my opposition to AR's prior to us getting them, but I never got any type of response in return, so who knows how much weight an outside response from a single person even has.

It is specifically the word "Random" that bothers me the most. There generally is some intelligence behind participant selection. Recognizing that these subjects are highly influenced by region, deer density, availability of permits, and other specific regional influences and demographics, one would think that randomly drawing a few names out of a hat has a pretty good chance of accidentally skewing results. And as far as how well it has worked in the past, that is still highly controversial. 

[Doc]

I believe the most attractive selection of the 5 is the last one that favors No changes at all. That selection is reinforced by the fact that they find it necessary to come up with yet another dissecting of the state. I fear that by the time they are finished with this boondoggle, the odds of keeping all the boundaries straight and the unique set of regulations within those boundaries, they will have established yet another case where hunters are never 100% certain that they are not violating laws and risking heavy fines.

 

I want to see things heading back in the direction of simplicity where all conservation laws are looked at and evaluated and discarded if they make no sense or are flat out wrong. Get that stuff all reduced down to bare-bones and then we can talk about responsible ways to add new restrictions. I have watched a ton of laws discussed here on this forum where obviously no one has a clue what they mean or how to accurately comply. No one should need the services of a lawyer just to hunt.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Everyone wants to be loved. Me me me.

 

They see 7,000 and think there is no way possible to get an accurate gauge on the sentiment of the hunting community in NY. No way possible. Not at all. Never a chance.

 

I must surmise that these same people that feel this way know more about survey methodology, stats, and analytics than Cornell University's SRI. It's not like it's one of the leading institutes in the freaking world or anything. Nor does it have experts educated from other top world-ranking colleges...like Stanford, Beijng Normal, or University of Chicago...

 

People are literally whining about the brightest minds in the industry working on this. I just don't get it.

 

The biggest reason Id like to see everyone surveyed, is so that noone is sitting there crying foul because they have never ever received any survey about any issue from the DEC's random samplings. It would be pretty easy to setup.

[Doc]

So, what's the deal with this apparent DEC shift in opinion on the attempted protections of 1.5 year old deer. I do remember a Hurst quote that essentially said that there is no biological justification for AR, and in fact it is more of a social (political ....lol) issue than a game management issue. So this reversal sounds like a decision to let hunters take over the management and the hell with good sound management principles recommended by trained biological  DEC employees.

 

Well it might be more accurate to say that maybe there is an ulterior motive to this strange opinion shift. I have not seen a whole lot of rules changes in the last decades that were not specifically aimed at herd reduction ... statewide. I'm thinking that the thought here is that the harder you make a buck harvest, the more does that will be taken to compensate for the likely "deerless" season results that new rule of buck harvest harassment will cause. Perhaps this is really all just a back-door effort to force doe harvests.

[Jennifer]

I have done some online survey conducting before, but never on this scale nor to a very select group, so my idea may be ignorant. I find myself wondering if offering the survey in an online format, in addition to mailed surveys, would be of any benefit (in the future-- obviously there is not enough time to offer it this go around). One might enter their unique hunting license number to gain access to the survey, to make sure that they are a valid hunter from NYS. This would weed out non-hunters or hunters without valid NYS licenses, as well as prevent people from taking the survey more than once to skew results.

This would open access to the survey in greater numbers, reduce mailing costs, and perhaps reduce the number of people that would not return the survey. I may be biased, though, because all of us here use the internet regularly (obviously, as we post to this forum). So it might be best used in conjunction with some mailed surveys.

Again, I might be barking up the wrong tree. I imagine (and hope) that the folks that conduct the survey have a better idea of what yeilds the most results.

[upstatehunter]

Well there's an ethical hunter! Admits they will break the law if it's passed. Never mind following the law and seeing what happens or that maybe you might reap a benefit. 

 

And seeing that you are short sighted, let me spell it out a bit further... What you are not understanding is that YOU DON'T OWN THE LIVING ANIMAL and said animal wanders onto other peoples land as well. Those people obey the laws and deserve the right to reap any benefit's of the regulation. 

 

Who ever taught you that when you buy land you're entitled to kill wildlife as you see fit? 

 

I will not become a big buck hunter because my neighbor wants his nice beautiful rack on his wall that he touches himself over.  I hunt for meat.  I have nice racks on my wall.  They have came naturally.  No trail cam pictures of them.  Pure mother nature put them in front of me.  I wont go a year without killing a deer so you can have a beautiful rack.  I go after deer he same way I do every year.  Not yet have I seen a lack in bucks.  This had to be the best year I can remember for seeing and harvesting bucks.  I took a buck with the box(early season bow) one with the muzzle loader, and one with the rifle.  Along with taking a doe.  All taken in different areas.  Plus I seen more bucks then what I harvested.  Pushing a restriction on me is like when the Jehovah witnesses come to my door and try to push religion on me.  Keep your religion and restrictions to your self.  WE DONT NEED LEGISLATION, WE NEED EDUCATION.  don't shoot every buck you see but if all you see for the year is a fork horn, take your shot.

[bubba]

I have went three years not killing a deer to enhance the population on my land.  I still spent money every year for the license etc.  I have had chances each year to harvest a deer, but passed smaller ones.  I do not shoot does during regular season, and only will allow it during early muzzleloading season.  I can get a dmp every year due to being a land owner, but I refuse and take my chances with the luck of the draw.  When i do get one, I try to get one of the new hunters in my camp a chance to harvest one. I plant lots of feed for deer to include summer and winter feed and antler enhancing foods.  The only deer taken at my camp in the past 3 years was a 1.5 year old 8 point taken this fall.  My question is where are all the wall hanger trophies I have let go?  After reading what was posted about the article, it is in the baby stages.  They will be sending out surveys, waiting for the return of the surveys and collecting and evaluating the data.  This is not the first time they have done, this and it went no where.  I am doubting it will not get too far now either.  

[phade]

The biggest reason Id like to see everyone surveyed, is so that noone is sitting there crying foul because they have never ever received any survey about any issue from the DEC's random samplings. It would be pretty easy to setup.

 

Costly at the license counter. Put it this way, even town clerks are refusing to sell licenses now...to the point they've been docked pay or demoted.

 

I know everyone wants their two cents in, but that's not realistic. We can't even handle voting for a President efficiently.

[JFB]

I will not become a big buck hunter because my neighbor wants his nice beautiful rack on his wall that he touches himself over.  I hunt for meat.  I have nice racks on my wall.  They have came naturally.  No trail cam pictures of them.  Pure mother nature put them in front of me.  I wont go a year without killing a deer so you can have a beautiful rack.  I go after deer he same way I do every year.  Not yet have I seen a lack in bucks.  This had to be the best year I can remember for seeing and harvesting bucks.  I took a buck with the box(early season bow) one with the muzzle loader, and one with the rifle.  Along with taking a doe.  All taken in different areas.  Plus I seen more bucks then what I harvested.  Pushing a restriction on me is like when the Jehovah witnesses come to my door and try to push religion on me.  Keep your religion and restrictions to your self.  WE DONT NEED LEGISLATION, WE NEED EDUCATION.  don't shoot every buck you see but if all you see for the year is a fork horn, take your shot.

 

Why stop there? Get your light out and jack one up tonight. After all, it's your land and no one is gonna tell you what to do. 

[Five Seasons]

Shouldn't really surprise most of us. The notice was in last years rule book about considering ARs. I guess I struggle with why people think hunter numbers will drop? If you quit hunting because you can only shoot 1 buck or not a small buck I can't imagine you really loved the sport and hunted that much to begin with. I struggle with the fact that with time ARs will grow bigger deer, and some of you believe that wont attract more hunters? It takes time but your chances of a nicer buck increase. To me, that draws hunters in.

 

Has everything to do with it......its my land.....I'm not out to kill every deer but if all I see is a spike horn or fork horn for the year, he's hitting the dirt......nobody will tell me you can't shoot that deer on your own property

 

They're not your deer. It is your land. You still can't just do whatever you please. The laws of the state all still apply to you. The DEC CAN and WILL tell you what you can do on your land whether you like it or not. If you get caught you will pay whether you like it or not.

Last I knew I couldn't murder someone on my land and claim it was my land and I can do what I want on it.

 

Good move. 

 

It is a great publication, if I get one or two articles per issue that interest me I'm satisfied.  They have their finger on the pulse of the State regarding hunting, fishing & trapping more so than anybody else, that I can see.

 

You'll enjoy it.

 

I wouldn't say it's great. It's all we have. It's decent, I just wish they stuck more to facts and offered opposing opinions. The were very pro crossbow. That's fine, but they didn't give any anti-crossbow view the time of day. Typical media I know, but it bothers me.

 

Tell me more about Ohio and Kentucky...........When did they make the changes?  How are they similar to NYS?

 

What does "worked well" mean and in whose eyes has it worked well?

 

just google kentucky one buck. Plenty of good articles out there. The culture in OH is really not all that different than upstate NY.

[jjb4900]

I have done some online survey conducting before, but never on this scale nor to a very select group, so my idea may be ignorant. I find myself wondering if offering the survey in an online format, in addition to mailed surveys, would be of any benefit (in the future-- obviously there is not enough time to offer it this go around). One might enter their unique hunting license number to gain access to the survey, to make sure that they are a valid hunter from NYS. This would weed out non-hunters or hunters without valid NYS licenses, as well as prevent people from taking the survey more than once to skew results.

This would open access to the survey in greater numbers, reduce mailing costs, and perhaps reduce the number of people that would not return the survey. I may be biased, though, because all of us here use the internet regularly (obviously, as we post to this forum). So it might be best used in conjunction with some mailed surveys.

Again, I might be barking up the wrong tree. I imagine (and hope) that the folks that conduct the survey have a better idea of what yeilds the most results.

I was thinking along those same lines, how hard could it really be to set up an online survey / questionnaire that requires you to log in using the same info used for online license sales and harvest reporting?