Looks like there may just be statewide Antler Restricts.

[growalot]

What they want is an easy fix ... one that just won't work IMO...there is a lot to be said about driving ppl away when many ONLY have the week ends to hunt or are in compatition at work for days off in that 3 week period. If you want mature bucks then TEACH hunters what they look like...Can you tell a mature buck when it has 4 points to a side and is broad side by the rack?...No   Can you tell by the body shape?...Yes  Is there always a spot in your hunting area to give you a good view of rack width while maintaining a clear shot?...NO But if there is a clean shot presented can one tell by the body if the deer is mature?...Yes

 

They have put out there a rough draft that stirs the pot hoping to make sense out of the mess created...Bow hunters will come out of this stinking because gun hunters will see it as they aren't being touch...They aren't..Wow ARs in a season most...not all... but most practice AR's any ways...but then OBR...there goes the gun hunters...no more bow hunters needing to be in the woods chasing buck during gun...sure they can still use DMP but not all areas get those....who wins there? The Democrats that really don't like even hunting guns...fewer gun hunters and less time they get to hunt win win for them....How many out of staters are coming here? I'm not talking land owners or previous residents.Lets see.....several big buck states...most not nearly as anti gun nor gun regulated as NYS.. remember screw up here and you could loose your privileges in many other states as well..... Taxes , hotels, food are more expensive...So.... all things being equal buck size and #'s  Where would I book a hunt?...hhhmmm

What I want is for you to think about all of it...not just the rules them selves but the ripples from the rules. I stopped thinking that anything in the democratic NYS government machine doesn't have hidden agendas and trap doors attached...they do think long term...for they know we don't

Edited January 7, 2015 by growalot

[JFB]

JFB...really new year and pissing matches aren't on my plate...but your last post to me needs answering....I do not like to play word games, so when I see them in action...BTW you have mastered...in some instances... a wonderful subtly in yours....I prefer when seeing this to just pull out the sledge hammer, as it were....

Actually I thought I was being nice in posing questions to your your sarcastic reply to my(sarcastic) opinion.

Now I still ask you to post those models and graphs you mention from the DEC.  I Think your Kip reference has been taken care.

 

And I'm glad you recognize you can't just play word games with me. Smoke and mirrors. Sorry the new year is back to your old ways so quickly. 

[growalot]

What a joke...who had the smoke and mirrors sir...All I asked for was the data...Seeing you rather make personal comments than back up what you said ..I'll say you have a good year...lol

[upstatehunter]

Growalot - there are talkers and there are provers......jfb is a talker

[JFB]

Yes Grow, you and upstate could likely be good friends. Head to HIS land and shoot anything you want regardless of regs. He might even let you on one of his run ways. A good year to you as well. 

[G-Man]

1st the wmu are to big to do any kind of true management.

2nd you can't stockpile big bucks the will find a safe haven ,it may be the non hunters yard,

3rd I work back and forth to ohio,the hunters I talk to do not see anywhere neAR the number of deer that we have in ny.and most I have talked to do not like the 1 buck rule.plus their licence is all inclusive.

The only problem.is the media cramming big bucks down your throat. You want a big buck hunt where they are (you don't need to leave the state to do so)obviously looking at nys big buck club site and others that showcases nys bucks they are here,you are either not putting the time or effort in it that is required,hunt where there are few,or your a bad hunter...... me not shooting a buck isn't going to up your chance, time and effort do that.

[jjb4900]

What they want is an easy fix ... one that just won't work IMO...there is a lot to be said about driving ppl away when many ONLY have the week ends to hunt or are in compatition at work for days off in that 3 week period. If you want mature bucks then TEACH hunters what they look like...Can you tell a mature buck when it has 4 points to a side and is broad side by the rack?...No   Can you tell by the body shape?...Yes  Is there always a spot in your hunting area to give you a good view of rack width while maintaining a clear shot?...NO But if there is a clean shot presented can one tell by the body if the deer is mature?...Yes

 

They have put out there a rough draft that stirs the pot hoping to make sense out of the mess created...Bow hunters will come out of this stinking because gun hunters will see it as they aren't being touch...They aren't..Wow ARs in a season most...not all... but most practice AR's any ways...but then OBR...there goes the gun hunters...no more bow hunters needing to be in the woods chasing buck during gun...sure they can still use DMP but not all areas get those....who wins there? The Democrats that really don't like even hunting guns...fewer gun hunters and less time they get to hunt win win for them....How many out of staters are coming here? I'm not talking land owners or previous residents.Lets see.....several big buck states...most not nearly as anti gun nor gun regulated as NYS.. remember screw up here and you could loose your privileges in many other states as well..... Taxes , hotels, food are more expensive...So.... all things being equal buck size and #'s  Where would I book a hunt?...hhhmmm

What I want is for you to think about all of it...not just the rules them selves but the ripples from the rules. I stopped thinking that anything in the democratic NYS government machine doesn't have hidden agendas and trap doors attached...they do think long term...for they know we don't

you're first thought is spot on.........they want an easy fix and it can't be done by changing the regulations every few years when what they just implemented isn't working fast enough. Think back 10-15 years ago, were people pissed off with the deer hunting? I don't remember anyone fighting about the things they are now....it seems that some hunter's want everything now, big bucks, multiple bucks, numerous doe tags, longer or shorter seasons, a tag for every weapon...something has got to give at some point.

Edited January 7, 2015 by jjb4900

[Five Seasons]

lol that isn't my place. My property value last year(for insurance) was valued just shy of $2,000,000. I have ponds, run way for my 2 airplanes, a whole separate structure that Is a private bar, plus my home and business that are on the property......then add in value of the business and machinery......im ruining the environment? So everyone who does business with me are bad? I have 2 DEC offcers who do business with me? Are they bad? Is the state, county, city and town highway garages I do business for bad?

And im talking about you......I don't like the soap you use to wash your car or the paint you use on your house so you cant use them anymore

Wow just wow. You suffer from serious insecurities my friend. If the DEC is after you than in inclined to believe you're doing something wrong.

Your simple lack of reasoning has me blown away and in doubt if your claims. Saying I can't do something g because you don't like it and saying you can't do something because it's harmful to humans or the environment are not even in the same ballpark.

[Five Seasons]

JFB, nobody gives a .....the point was I don't live in a scum hole.......am I going to get told next that I cant run a certain business

You can live in a palace and run a business that dumps toxic waste into the water. You can live in a shack and leave no footprint.

When will people learn that their net worth means nothing when it comes to who you are as a person?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

1st the wmu are to big to do any kind of true management.

2nd you can't stockpile big bucks the will find a safe haven ,it may be the non hunters yard,

3rd I work back and forth to ohio,the hunters I talk to do not see anywhere neAR the number of deer that we have in ny.and most I have talked to do not like the 1 buck rule.plus their licence is all inclusive.

The only problem.is the media cramming big bucks down your throat. You want a big buck hunt where they are (you don't need to leave the state to do so)obviously looking at nys big buck club site and others that showcases nys bucks they are here,you are either not putting the time or effort in it that is required,hunt where there are few,or your a bad hunter...... me not shooting a buck isn't going to up your chance, time and effort do that.

I'll give them a suggestion to shore up their management plan. Spend the effort addressing the biggest hurdle in front of most hunters. Land access. dump the damned nuisance tags and find a way to assist hunters in getting in areas. Spread out some of the pressure and get the herd numbers in some of these high density WMU's under control.

[jjb4900]

I'll give them a suggestion to shore up their management plan. Spend the effort addressing the biggest hurdle in front of most hunters. Land access. dump the damned nuisance tags and find a way to assist hunters in getting in areas. Spread out some of the pressure and get the herd numbers in some of these high density WMU's under control.

that and bring the herds back up in the areas that are hurting.......once they get the herds in check they can worry about tweaking them.

[upstatehunter]

Wow just wow. You suffer from serious insecurities my friend. If the DEC is after you than in inclined to believe you're doing something wrong.

Your simple lack of reasoning has me blown away and in doubt if your claims. Saying I can't do something g because you don't like it and saying you can't do something because it's harmful to humans or the environment are not even in the same ballpark.

There are no laws against what I do for a living......they showed 3 times due to a neighbor who didn't Ike what I do for a living...he is a tree hugger......you claim what I do for a living is bad for the environment, explain how

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I'll give them a suggestion to shore up their management plan. Spend the effort addressing the biggest hurdle in front of most hunters. Land access. dump the damned nuisance tags and find a way to assist hunters in getting in areas. Spread out some of the pressure and get the herd numbers in some of these high density WMU's under control.

Thats where the almighty dollar will come in. If they make Ny into a big buck go to state you will be able to get into some of those non hunted farms and lands. Ohio and illy did not become go to states by just people saying there are big bucks there, people shot them,Land values went up. whitetail outfitters showed up, high dollar leases were started and it turned into ...Pay to Hunt..........

 

Sound familiar? 

[coonhunter]

How about the people that don't have, or chose not to spend, a bunch of money on a lease? Trophy hunting and greed have already made this state a lot tougher to hunt than iy used to be. Posted land is the original cause in the drop in hunter numbers in my area. This snowballed into dads giving up hunting, and not passing the tradition onto their children, which means even less hunters, and in the end, not enough deer being shot.

 

More laws mean more people quit hunting. You can say that they never really liked it if they quit, but that is not the case. It just becomes too much effort for them to enjoy the experience. Not everyone has a bunch of money, land of their own/or lease, or a bunch of vacation time. I just see fewer and fewer hunters every year.

 

Some of you trophy hunters, and I am one of them, need to take the time to think about what might happen if not enough deer get shot for a few seasons because all the land is locked down for a relatively small percentage of the hunters. I don't have the answers. We are our own worst enemies. I try to get new people and youths involved every year, but it seems to get harder and harder. What is going to happen in the next 10 years? I agree with Grow with the fact that out of staters are not going to come here with all the non-sense gun laws. I just don't see the point of any of these proposals making any sense in the area of population control other than the one buck rule. And that only helps if the hunters will shoot does instead.

 

 

 

 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Thats where the almighty dollar will come in. If they make Ny into a big buck go to state you will be able to get into some of those non hunted farms and lands. Ohio and illy did not become go to states by just people saying there are big bucks there, people shot them,Land values went up. whitetail outfitters showed up, high dollar leases were started and it turned into ...Pay to Hunt..........

 

Sound familiar? 

I would expect that non hunting land owners would wise up pretty quickly once their acquaintances and fellow farmers start making good money for leasing their land. Friend has a 2 week Illinois lease. 200 acres $10,000. and it isn't exclusive.  

[stoneam2006]

I'm shocked at how many guys here are willing to say that I shouldn't be allowed to shoot what I want. That's crazy everyone I know hunts bc they love to outdoors not bc they want to decorate. I could care less about more guys comming from out of state to hunt here why would i. There is no reason for ar and may turn this past time we all love into a joke. I live close to border and every year more and more pa hunters are over here hunting bc they can't manage to see "shooters" over there. Why is that bennificial. Why is a healthy old buck any better to take than a healthy younger one? If both are relatively same size weight why does it matter...this is crazy and b.s no wonder hunting as a whole is going downhill fast it's bc guys who shoot young ones are looked down on by the trophy hunters...and in my experience trophy hunters tend to be "better off" than meat hunters and we all know money talks. If this passes I will feel sorry for all the guys and gals like me who enjoy hunting and get the same rush and feeling out of a yearling as we do a trophy.

Edited January 7, 2015 by stoneam2006

[upstatehunter]

Stoneam2006 - I'm right with you

[WNYBuckHunter]

You can't glean the level of detail with a short survey, plus the opportunity cost in retail would be enough that there'd be major pushback from retailers. DEC contracts it out, pays Cornell, and done. No trying to re-negotiate license vendor agreements.

The survey I took, which looking at it the deck, was around 2010. It was several pages long with alot of questions.

On a single subject? You sure can. I saw it too, it covered a bunch of topics. Pick one each year, and within a few years, you have the same subjects covered, with everyones opinion.

You have agreed with the thought process behind mandatory reporting of tags, have you not? That would be feasable, and a survey would be as well.

Pushback from retailers? Why? They already have to punch things into the computer, the survey questions would take an additional few seconds per license. Cornell could still run the crunching of the data and put the reports together. I know databases, the one they use currently is most likely SQL driven, not hard to add a table. Heck, you could even take the retailers out of the equation and run the survey online and over the phone at the time of reporting your first tag. Mandatory tag reporting makes it so everyone gets the survey, or the option to opt out. Either way, they were given the opportunity to express their concerns.

You want hunters to be happy? Dont make it so they feel a disconnection from the changes that happen. Listen to what is said on here about the DEC, conspiracies, people that think the DEC doesnt care about anything but money, etc etc.

[wildcat junkie]

Wouldn't most of the 1 1/2 yr old bucks allowed to survive their 1st season show up as 2 1/2 yr olds the next?

 

Aside from some natural loss & road kill there would be nearly as many "legal" bucks after the initial opening year of ARs. A bit bigger & maybe a little bit smarter?

[SteveB]

If you are going to shoot them at 2.5, why not at 1.5?

A few more inches/pts and 20 lbs of meat?

Still a young deer.

[Lawdwaz]

Do the proponents of AR's and OBR have any thoughts on Pennsylvania's situation?  They have BOTH of these regs and a CONSIDERABLY lowered deer population since implementing the AR's.

 

When they brought the AR's in they also issued a ton of doe tags.  Consequently a pile of doe and yearlings were killed and THAT is exactly what the PGC (Pennsylavania Game Commission)  wanted.  In the 12 years since they implemented the law (13 hunting seasons) I have killed 3 bucks.  I have had a doe tag almost every year but have only killed a few doe because there aren't many to shoot!  In the previous 21 years I probably killed 10 bucks and saw piles of doe each year and all that equates to ACTION and INTEREST in most peoples book but, of course YMMV.

 

 

[stoneam2006]

Do the proponents of AR's and OBR have any thoughts on Pennsylvania's situation? They have BOTH of these regs and a CONSIDERABLY lowered deer population since implementing the AR's.

When they brought the AR's in they also issued a ton of doe tags. Consequently a pile of doe and yearlings were killed and THAT is exactly what the PGC (Pennsylavania Game Commission) wanted. In the 12 years since they implemented the law (13 hunting seasons) I have killed 3 bucks. I have had a doe tag almost every year but have only killed a few doe because there aren't many to shoot! In the previous 21 years I probably killed 10 bucks and saw piles of doe each year and all that equates to ACTION and INTEREST in most peoples book but, of course YMMV.

And in your experience before and after ar in pa....wich was better and y if you don't mind me asking?

[WNYBuckHunter]

Larry, OBR has nothing to do with population control. It would be a good way to help get rid of some of that shoot the first buck you see mentality, without having to go to ARs. Add in more education about the benefits of letting bucks get older, and we should see the acceleration of people making the decision to pass the younger ones on their own.

I will never dispute the science behind ARs, they do work to up the average age class of bucks, but i dont feel that it should be mandated, which ticks people off.

[G-Man]

The best hunting and fondest memories I have in hunting were the late.o's early 2000's deer were plentiful,land was still accessible. Ask yourself this if you shot a buck that scored 120 or so every year would you be happy?or would you want a bigger deer maybe 140's. If so your a user and greedy as much as you hate to admit it. There is more to a hunting experiance.imposing your belief on a another hunter having to take a certain size deer. Is the same as a person forcing you to learn spanish...there is no biologicaly benifit to learning it or letting one grow bigger except to meet someone else's beliefs.

[Lawdwaz]

If you are going to shoot them at 2.5, why not at 1.5?

A few more inches/pts and 20 lbs of meat?

Still a young deer.

 

So let them get another year older, right?  Once the state is loaded with them it'll be easy, right?

 

The thing people don't really think about is those bucks 3.5 and older are no dumb bells.   They aren't as kill-able certainly as 1.5 and 2,5 year old bucks.

 

THIS ISN'T TV.  

 

THIS ISN'T THE KISKY, LAKOSKY, SHOCKEY, BILL JORDAN, ETC ETC ETC ETC PROPERTY.

 

Do you really think that an increase in 3.5 and up deer will make then loosen up and cruise more on your little piece of heaven?  

 

Holy crow, for all the big bucks we ALL get on camera each year during late summer, fall and even now why aren't we killing these slobs?  

 

WHY DON'T YOU KILL A BRUTE EACH YEAR YOU TROPHY HUNTERS?  THEY ARE THERE..............

 

 

 

Oh wait.......there isn't enough of them?  No, they are smart and don't like crowds, daylight and how I smell.