Looks like there may just be statewide Antler Restricts.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

how does this bring more money into the state? it brings it to the landowners ,they report it the state can get a portion of taxes.. more leases means fewer hunters and less licence sales (wich fund wildlife programs)

If it comes to landowners it will in turn go to the state one way or the other. There will still be hunters bet they will just be hunting elsewhere or paying along with the rest. A hunter will not stop being a hunter, He will find the means,if he is a hunter!

[Lawdwaz]

Who says we aren't?

 

 

PA was ridiculously overpopulated with deer. The only benefit was the hunters who liked to see swarms of deer wouldn't get bored on stand. EVERYTHING else suffered; small wildlife like nesting birds, the forest, farmers, heck even the deer suffered from increased disease and stress. PGC never should have let populations get that high in the 1st place.

 

 

 

 

I'm happy for you Sam, you certainly kill some brutes.  Not many others seem to, do they?  How come so few of these great big bucks caught on camera each year don't end up hanging in a shed somewhere, then get a place on the family room wall? 

 

Every year we all get so fired up seeing the trail cam pics and videos of dream bucks then never see them again, dead or alive. 

 

If we had AR's we'd all kill them.

 

At the farm in PA I hunt, in the 12 years since the AR's were implemented only a couple decent buck have been killed by the 8-10 guys that hunt the place.  Its only around 300 acres.............

 

I call them decent, certainly not what most would consider great bucks.  100-110"  MAYBE.  That's after 12 years of AR's and many years of OBR.

 

Why aren't there more big bucks?  Each year they have them on cameras but not on the ground.......these hunters aren't "Happy Day Wangers" either, all are good, hard working honest huntersthat spend all day in the woods.  For some reason you don't see these hogs in the fields or woods when you have a gun in your hands.

 

I have friends who have had a camp in McKean County PA since the late 70's. They had 4 guys in camp for the first two days of gun season this year; they never saw a deer.  I bet they really enjoyed seeing all the "small wildlife like nesting birds" those days instead of DEER.   Don't ask about late flintlock season sightings.......

 

Oh yea, there are no farmers within many miles of their camp in Corydon.

[G-Man]

i personally see no reason to change the tag system we have now, but i do see a need to create small wmu"s. for example, i am fortunate to have a large population of deer on my property and try to take 10 adult doe a year to keep the population in check. my friends down the road 7 miles are lucky to even see a doe, wmu cover large areas and there are pockets within that do not follow the managment quota of bucks per square mile. my town is about 5 miles by 7 miles.. the take last year was 101 buck and 99 doe , my small corner took 8 buck and 10 doe or about 10% of total take for the town on less than 1/2 square mile.

Unfortunatly smaller wmu's  are not going to be a feasable thing to do for the state as it would require mandatory deer. checks and more biologist on the payroll. but smaller wmu's would allow a more specfic management system to be put in place to  properly manage the herd, population and age structure if that is the goal.

I personally cannot understand how the state can manage the herd with out mandatory deer checks.. for all of you that look at the mid west as a deer mecca..guess what they alll have mandatory deer checks(yes i know by law we are supose to report our harvest obviously it isnt working or 280 acres would not take 10% of reported/estimated kill) why dont we start there before we try to adjust the herd with new regulations!!!

[jjb4900]

seems like the only rational thing to do to make everyone happy is to put the choice of what to shoot back in the hands of the individual hunter...that way no one can bitch about what they can or can't do.

[G-Man]

If it comes to landowners it will in turn go to the state one way or the other. There will still be hunters bet they will just be hunting elsewhere or paying along with the rest. A hunter will not stop being a hunter, He will find the means,if he is a hunter!

unfortunatly there are many weekend hunter that buy licences and many will not if they do not have a place to hunt, many small camps have 4-10 guys on 30 acres... take them off the list of hunters buying tags, they will go away for a week and just drink... most people on this site have a passion for hunting and will hunt , but many will tresspass, poach, or road hunt if they cant hunt the spots they hunted for years... the main thing i hear from a tresspasser is i hunted here for years!!! state doesn't have resources to enforce the complaints now, and the state will get a lot less $$$ from lease situations or they will raise property taxes to make up the difference forcing the guy that doesnt want to lease his property out to do so or sell... and what of a non hunter recreonation land owner whos property goes up in tax because of the game it holds...this is a bad idea as trying to tax vacant land on potential timber value!!!

[Four Season Whitetail's]

unfortunatly there are many weekend hunter that buy licences and many will not if they do not have a place to hunt, many small camps have 4-10 guys on 30 acres... take them off the list of hunters buying tags, they will go away for a week and just drink... most people on this site have a passion for hunting and will hunt , but many will tresspass, poach, or road hunt if they cant hunt the spots they hunted for years... the main thing i hear from a tresspasser is i hunted here for years!!! state doesn't have resources to enforce the complaints now, and the state will get a lot less $$$ from lease situations or they will raise property taxes to make up the difference forcing the guy that doesnt want to lease his property out to do so or sell... and what of a non hunter recreonation land owner whos property goes up in tax because of the game it holds...this is a bad idea as trying to tax vacant land on potential timber value!!!

Well people will adapt i guess. Did it shut down Ohio,Kansas,illy   Seems like those states are still at the top.

[BizCT]

How's this for an idea, no deer hunting whatsoever for anyone anywhere in NY in 2015, then let's hunt 2016 the usual way and report back.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[132 eight pointer]

Or what if Bucks were only allowed to be killed every other year. That would make things interesting.

[Doc]

which is human nature. We fear change. We don't know what will happen. Will hunting as we know it be ruined? idk... Will it improve? that'd be great but we have no guarantee.

 

Businesses struggle with change all the time. Change is scary. Kodak failed at it and Apple won at it.

No, my selection has nothing to do with a fear of change. It has everything to do with the fact that laws have proliferated annually to the level that now everytime we go hunting, we can be pretty sure that we are breaking at least one unknown law. And now they are talking about yet another subdivision with another complex description of boundaries in order to implement these changes. Enough is enough!

 

Basically, a vote for no change, is a change in the mentality that every issue needs a further restriction. I actually want so much change that I know that no one will go for it. I want every existing law to be re-addressed, and properly justified or deleted. Now there is a radical change that would be meaningful ... not simply throwing more regulations everytime someone gets a new fad-management brain-fart. Damn, we get enough of that screw-ball thinking in our civil and criminal law. We don't need that mentality in our Conservation law too.

[Doc]

If you read the power point that was linked above, it basically says the say thing. The herd is healthy and no biological need and it is a social topic. And from the  previous survey and comments on this forum, a very polarizing one.

If they still consider that to be the case, then what is this survey with an eye toward adding new restrictions all about. I sense they are saying one thing from a management stance and a completely different thing from a political stance. And I think I offered a plausible explanation as to why.

[Doc]

On a single subject? You sure can. I saw it too, it covered a bunch of topics. Pick one each year, and within a few years, you have the same subjects covered, with everyones opinion.

You have agreed with the thought process behind mandatory reporting of tags, have you not? That would be feasable, and a survey would be as well.

Pushback from retailers? Why? They already have to punch things into the computer, the survey questions would take an additional few seconds per license. Cornell could still run the crunching of the data and put the reports together. I know databases, the one they use currently is most likely SQL driven, not hard to add a table. Heck, you could even take the retailers out of the equation and run the survey online and over the phone at the time of reporting your first tag. Mandatory tag reporting makes it so everyone gets the survey, or the option to opt out. Either way, they were given the opportunity to express their concerns.

You want hunters to be happy? Dont make it so they feel a disconnection from the changes that happen. Listen to what is said on here about the DEC, conspiracies, people that think the DEC doesnt care about anything but money, etc etc.

I am a big proponent of online surveys. Once the software is written, it takes the cost of labor right out of the data-gathering game. Input is ones and zeros. Receipt of data is ones and zeros. even the bulk of analysis is ones and zeros. And with computers everywhere these days, voluntary participation eliminates every excuse  relating to lack of involvement. Oh and by the way, demographics, regions, and whatever volumes of supporting data can be supplied at the click of a button. Personal computers were made for public data gathering. I have no idea why the DEC or Cornell or anyone who is serious about getting the real picture is not using them. It is absolutely weird that in 2015, we are still using the U.S. Postal Service for labor intensive data gathering that necessitates questionable numbers of data points.

[First-light]

Do the proponents of AR's and OBR have any thoughts on Pennsylvania's situation?  They have BOTH of these regs and a CONSIDERABLY lowered deer population since implementing the AR's.

 

When they brought the AR's in they also issued a ton of doe tags.  Consequently a pile of doe and yearlings were killed and THAT is exactly what the PGC (Pennsylavania Game Commission)  wanted.  In the 12 years since they implemented the law (13 hunting seasons) I have killed 3 bucks.  I have had a doe tag almost every year but have only killed a few doe because there aren't many to shoot!  In the previous 21 years I probably killed 10 bucks and saw piles of doe each year and all that equates to ACTION and INTEREST in most peoples book but, of course YMMV.

I heard the same thing from hunters that used to to hunt PA every year before ar was introduced. Just like you spelled it out same exact story.

[First-light]

In about a week we should package this thread up in a PDF and send it to the DEC.

[nyantler]

Lots of you throw around the term "trophy hunter" thinking it means.. " a hunter that hunts big bucks" ... I hunt big bucks only, but by no means am I a trophy hunter... I hunt bigger bucks simply because the challenge is greater... there are less of them and they are harder to find and kill... If younger bucks were tougher to kill and harder to find, I'd be hunting them.

 

A trophy hunter is really anyone that kills any deer for the reason of puffing their chest and making the announcement of how that deer means that they are a great hunter. I know many many ADK hunters that kill all kinds of big bucks and none of them is a trophy hunter... they are just guys that love that style of hunting and the challenge of an elusive mature buck. I and them get off on the hunt... not the deer. Hence, the reason why the non-kill stories can be just as exciting as the kill stories.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

In about a week we should package this thread up in a PDF and send it to the DEC.

Yup,One of the comuter brains on here should do a poll with the same 5 options listed and let us put a number next to the choices we like. Say Ar would be 1 and obr would be 2 and so on...

[growalot]

Neither 3

Last year they went through their need for change to "help" the herd...Yep set backs lowered and a new weapon allowed...PLOP!...then walked away from an opportunity to initiate a program to get these cities having problems on board. These municipalities have their residence coming to them crying about deer damage.They in turn whine to the DEC...the "town meetings" aren't working...get an advertising type campaign going showing how bow hunters and residents can work together...Don't start out with the idea that the "bambie" lovers can never ...not be won over...but see the financial and health benefits as a whole. Make urban season wide x bow doe only zones...hit home owner association's to start..

Edited January 8, 2015 by growalot

[steve863]

Yes sir, Thats my point. Bigger deer, Better hunting will open lands and bring money into the state. Some of the better farms/land will get ate up by out of state big money and those Ny guys hunting it now..if there are any..will be SOL Then smaller parcels of the good hunting but not the best, will be leased by the Ny guys..And then there will be state land!

 

 

You have some of the most convoluted, and self serving ideas that I have ever read on ANY forum.  You want to make NY a big buck state, where all the land is leased up for big money.  And you think this will be great for the state?  How in hell would this benefit 97% of us who are already hunting in this state??  I have no issues with paying someone for the use of their land if it's within reason, but we all know where the prices go when an area becomes synonymous with trophy hunting??  The majority of us would then have only state land to hunt with swarms of hunters on it, while people like you would be laughing all the way to the bank.   Now with all this, we are supposed give credibility to what you constantly try to tell us around here, right??   You are sooo full of it (and yourself), that it isn't even funny.  The few "trophy" hunters that would be hunting in your scenario would NOT make up for all the lost hunters who would no longer be hunting in this state.  That's only a figment of your imagination and what YOU would like to see happen.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

You have some of the most convoluted, and self serving ideas that I have ever read on ANY forum.  You want to make NY a big buck state, where all the land is leased up for big money.  And you think this will be great for the state?  How in hell would this benefit 97% of us who are already hunting in this state??  I have no issues with paying someone for the use of their land if it's within reason, but we all know where the prices go when an area becomes synonymous with trophy hunting??  The majority of us would then have only state land to hunt with swarms of hunters on it, while people like you would be laughing all the way to the bank.   Now with all this, we are supposed give credibility to what you constantly try to tell us around here, right??   You are sooo full of it (and yourself), that it isn't even funny.  The few "trophy" hunters that would be hunting in your scenario would NOT make up for all the lost hunters who would no longer be hunting in this state.  That's only a figment of your imagination and what YOU would like to see happen.

It is a business model fro him. If the average Joe has a choice of paying big bucks for a lease with an ok chance to take a good buck or pay about the same to have a much better chance  on a preserve, it helps his business. The more expensive normal free range hunting is and the more difficult access is the better for the farms.

[steve863]

It is a business model fro him. If the average Joe has a choice of paying big bucks for a lease with an ok chance to take a good buck or pay about the same to have a much better chance  on a preserve, it helps his business. The more expensive normal free range hunting is and the more difficult access is the better for the farms.

 

 

Exactly.  This should immediately discount anything he says about the topic of antler restrictions, herd health, or overall hunter satisfaction in the state.  What he says and wants to see serves only him and he could give a crap about anything else.

[Lawdwaz]

Lots of you throw around the term "trophy hunter" thinking it means.. " a hunter that hunts big bucks" ... I hunt big bucks only, but by no means am I a trophy hunter... I hunt bigger bucks simply because the challenge is greater... there are less of them and they are harder to find and kill... If younger bucks were tougher to kill and harder to find, I'd be hunting them.

 

A trophy hunter is really anyone that kills any deer for the reason of puffing their chest and making the announcement of how that deer means that they are a great hunter. I know many many ADK hunters that kill all kinds of big bucks and none of them is a trophy hunter... they are just guys that love that style of hunting and the challenge of an elusive mature buck. I and them get off on the hunt... not the deer. Hence, the reason why the non-kill stories can be just as exciting as the kill stories.

 

OK, since I assume this is directed at me, I'll try and remember to term it differently.  

 

A "big buck hunter" would be a better title?

 

Heck, you have a web site dedicated to antlers..........not too many spiker articles though??

 

But really, the ultimate thing for you and everyone is is a "trophy" for the wall, right?  But a big old buck with no teeth and a gnarly busted rack would be a greater achievement for you and me though right? 

 

I think I'll start mounting lower jaws on my walls.................

 

[Four Season Whitetail's]

You have some of the most convoluted, and self serving ideas that I have ever read on ANY forum.  You want to make NY a big buck state, where all the land is leased up for big money.  And you think this will be great for the state?  How in hell would this benefit 97% of us who are already hunting in this state??  I have no issues with paying someone for the use of their land if it's within reason, but we all know where the prices go when an area becomes synonymous with trophy hunting??  The majority of us would then have only state land to hunt with swarms of hunters on it, while people like you would be laughing all the way to the bank.   Now with all this, we are supposed give credibility to what you constantly try to tell us around here, right??   You are sooo full of it (and yourself), that it isn't even funny.  The few "trophy" hunters that would be hunting in your scenario would NOT make up for all the lost hunters who would no longer be hunting in this state.  That's only a figment of your imagination and what YOU would like to see happen.

HaHa..You are a joke. I do not need to lease any property to enjoy my life. I would even find it hard pressed to lease any property if the chance arose. I find it very funny that you pick me out of all the others on here that feel that Ar or the one buck rule would be a good thing. Envy really eats your ass up huh?

You dont see other big buck hunting states complain do ya? and just a FYI..There are over 600 deer farms and ranches that do just fine in their high fence hunting business in Ohio ,even in a big buck producing state so one has nothing to do with the other.

You have your opinion on shooting baby deer and i have mine, Get over it.  If they send me a survey for my area they will get back a yes for Ar, A yes for one buck a season and a yes to shorten the season.  Some complain about not killing all the big bucks out there, well chasing them around for 3 freakin months has a tendency to do that to animals.

All of Ny state land is far from being the same and lease prices would run from real high to not even being leased. Dont be jealous of what someone else has just because you dont have the same thing. I dont really give a rats ass what credibility you or anyone else thinks of me around here.  My success has something to do with credibility? Riiight!

Edited January 8, 2015 by Four Season Whitetails

[steve863]

HaHa..You are a joke. I do not need to lease any property to enjoy my life. I would even find it hard pressed to lease any property if the chance arose. I find it very funny that you pick me out of all the others on here that feel that Ar or the one buck rule would be a good thing. Envy really eats your ass up huh?

You dont see other big buck hunting states complain do ya? and just a FYI..There are over 600 deer farms and ranches that do just fine in their high fence hunting business in Ohio ,even in a big buck producing state so one has nothing to do with the other.

You have your opinion on shooting baby deer and i have mine, Get over it.  If they send me a survey for my area they will get back a yes for Ar, A yes for one buck a season and a yes to shorten the season.  Some complain about not killing all the big bucks out there, well chasing them around for 3 freakin months has a tendency to do that to animals.

All of Ny state land is far from being the same and lease prices would run from real high to not even being leased. Dont be jealous of what someone else has just because you dont have the same thing. I dont really give a rats ass what credibility you or anyone else thinks of me around here.  My success has something to do with credibility? Riiight!

 

 

Jealous of what?  Your mullet?  I will congratulate ANY hunter who kills the dinkiest of free ranging deer before I will congratulate anyone who kills a freak buck in a pen.  And so will a hell of a lot of other hunters, no matter what YOU think.  You want to make hunting an exclusive pastime only for those willing and able to cough up big money, while everyone else has to be "$#!+ out of luck".  Sorry, but this type of attitude I sure as hell ain't jealous of!  

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Jealous of what?  Your mullet?  I will congratulate ANY hunter who kills the dinkiest of free ranging deer before I will congratulate anyone who kills a freak buck in a pen.  And so will a hell of a lot of other hunters, no matter what YOU think.  You want to make hunting an exclusive pastime only for those willing and able to cough up big money, while everyone else has to be "$#!+ out of luck".  Sorry, but this type of attitude I sure as hell ain't jealous of!  

Well it sure sounds like you dont want someone else to have what you dont!  You think your way and we will think ours. I guess if this stuff goes through you will see just what most hunters want out of their hunting.  Dont you see just how jealous you are?  I mean every person reading these words can see where YOU brought up the words FREAK BUCK IN A PEN!!!!  Man this thread has shit to do with high fence or any freak buck so you just keep on trying to tell us all what your problem is.  You need to either let it go or go buy yourself some freaking deer and put a fence up!  Do ya think we can keep the post on what it was started for????????

[JFB]

Lots of you throw around the term "trophy hunter" thinking it means.. " a hunter that hunts big bucks" ... I hunt big bucks only, but by no means am I a trophy hunter... I hunt bigger bucks simply because the challenge is greater... there are less of them and they are harder to find and kill... If younger bucks were tougher to kill and harder to find, I'd be hunting them.

 

A trophy hunter is really anyone that kills any deer for the reason of puffing their chest and making the announcement of how that deer means that they are a great hunter. I know many many ADK hunters that kill all kinds of big bucks and none of them is a trophy hunter... they are just guys that love that style of hunting and the challenge of an elusive mature buck. I and them get off on the hunt... not the deer. Hence, the reason why the non-kill stories can be just as exciting as the kill stories.

 

Very well stated. In fact, when I shoot a mature buck very few people know about it. It's for my own challenge and to me mature deer are beautiful to see and yes harvest. I've gotten in more than one argument with scorers trying to put my kills in P&Y and NYS Big Buck books and I don't 99% of the time.  And save me the guff about "well if you want challenge you should welcome fewer of them, etc". Not to mention I also purposely harvest select does WAY more than I shoot mature buck. 

[steve863]

 Do ya think we can keep the post on what it was started for????????

 

 

Yah, you were the one who started the thread and just happened to mention how great things would be if NY became a big buck state.  LOL