Get your vaseline ready NY! Its here...

[Larry]

sorry for those I offended put in stuff for sh&t

[Doc]

Who knows? ...... Maybe they have done me a favor with their stupidity. Maybe this year I will have those two weeks to get those last minute chores done around the house and get a chance to do a bit of squirrel hunting for a change.

[growalot]

Shite is the United Kingdoms word for that Larry...PS not making shite up but sermizing what is the real reason behind implementing an obviously bad plan would be. Though I wonder if it bothers you...the # of pages.. why read them? Hhhhmmmm

[growalot]

BTW..tried spelling that correctly 4 times and the Kindle kept auto correcting (surmise)

[Skillet]

We will definitely have to see how this plays out. I am excited by the change and applaud the DEC for getting it thru. The sharp reduction in early bow-hunting pressure will be a God-send for us crossbow hunters in these "infested" zones where the deer have enough cover to go nocturnal soon after they sense some pressure. I will be sure and post back, how many DMP's I am able to fill this fall with my $250 crossbow. Maybe I will even get to post a few more photos of "heart" shots.

They are not giving us any more time but this will greatly multiply the quality of the little bit we do get before gun season opens. We had the peak of the rut last year, now we have it without all that extra human scent in the woods. I would settle for a small compromise with the elitist bowhunters who are still pushing hard to keep the crossbow out. Give us full inclusion, in these zones only, in exchange for a return of legal buck harvest throughout.

DEC certainly did not make these changes to make crossbow hunters feel better, or punish the vertical bow crowd for being stubborn. (I hunt with both, so I'm not playing favorites here). Please don't make it seem like you are in some position to "negotiate" with the vertical crowd. That attitude will definitely not make them warm up to the full inclusion idea, and I'm pretty sure us crossbow supporters wouldn't choose you as our PR representative. First of all, this isn't about crossbow hunter vs vertical bowhunter, this is about DEC really overstepping their bounds. We as hunters should all be on the same team. Perverting the new rules into something tailored to suit you, at the expense of others is disgusting, and really gives a lot of insight into your regard (or lack thereof) for your fellow sportsman. I'm not being anti Christian here, I'm being anti your attitude. You say God puts the venison where he wants it, and guides the arrows / bullets of deserving followers, to strike down divinely distributed game animals. According to you, practice and proficiency with your weapons are of secondary importance. Then, you gloat about your 1 (one) lucky kill, and point to it as confirmation that you're in the Lord's good graces. What happens next time when you gut shoot that deer? You'll blame it on how you committed some sin on the way to the treestand that morning? In reality, I think you have displayed a lack of respect for God's creation by taking such an entitled, careless, & disrepectful attitude. Surely He would want you to practice and become efficient enough to honor his creation by killing it swiftly. I think he would expect you have enough respect to put in some effort, and be able to show that you honor the animals (and in turn, him) by becoming proficient in using your weapons. Seems like you're praying "God, I know I haven't practiced enough, or at this range, but I'm going to take a poke here, hook me up would Ya?" Sounds pretty arrogant to me. Then you have the nerve to come on this site, and tell others they are messing with the fire of hell, wow. "Judge not, lest ye be judged yourself". Way to defend your irresponsible, disrespectful actions by hiding behind the Bible. Do us all a favor. Put in the practice to become proficient, and stop trying to be the mouthpiece of Christians and crossbow hunters. As one of each, I find it highly offensive. Sorry for the off topic rant, but I couldn't help myself. Edited August 30, 2015 by Skillet

[SteveB]

Skillet - wolc123 is probably the the worst person that those seeking full inclusion would want as an advocate/supporter. I think he may actually be an anti cross bower who posts to hurt the push for inclusion.

Edited August 30, 2015 by SteveB

[nyantler]

Who knows? ...... Maybe they have done me a favor with their stupidity. Maybe this year I will have those two weeks to get those last minute chores done around the house and get a chance to do a bit of squirrel hunting for a change.

Exactly... when given lemons, make lemonade.

[wolc123]

To all those "haters" who pop up from time to time: none has half the strength it would require to make me stop giving the credit for ALL of my successes to my Lord and savior Jesus Christ.  Thank you, and keep them coming, for I especially relish these personal attacks.  That last one may be the best one yet.  They embolden me and show me THE real need which exists in many hunters out there, especially on a Sunday when we were not able to make it to church because we stayed out too late at a "wild" party.   What I really like about this forum is the freedom to say whatever I want on this subject, without having to be "politically correct".  It sure seems to be a "target-rich" environment. 

 

Keep up you practicing, scouting, and reading up on hunting info (it usually can't hurt) but you will never succeed in Life without Christ.  I will pray for you, that you give him a chance, keep the door open, and don't close him out.  Maybe take a little Bible in your pack to pass some of the quite times in the stand or blind.   Some time, when you least expect it, he may shower you with blessings like he has for me.   To get us back onto the topic of this thread, I do see how these new "no-buck for two weeks" regulations for my home-zone could be an extra blessing just for me.   Even non-Christians scientists can understand how less human scent in the woods means more deer.  Good hunting to you all this fall, and some day I hope to see you in that "happing hunting ground" up above.     

Edited August 30, 2015 by wolc123

[Larry]

This is off the DEC web site. The DEC could of made these changes without comment. They had the authority to do so under the 5 year plan. Consider your selves lucky they didn’t make these changes without comment.

 

Antlerless-only portion of the bow and muzzleloader seasons in several WMUs

Comment: One writer claimed that hunters or hunting groups had not been surveyed on this issue prior to the rule being proposed.

Response: The option to make part of the bow and muzzleloader season valid for antlerless deer only in areas where additional antlerless harvest is necessary, originated from hunters during the scoping process for DEC's deer management plan. Then, in the 2010 Deer Hunter Survey, 55% of hunters identified that, where needed, an antlerless-only portion of the bow and muzzleloader seasons was a good idea, while only 28% believed it was a bad idea. The survey found similar support for the concept among bowhunters and gun hunters. In 2011, when DEC released a draft deer plan for public comment, the concept of an antlerless-only period during bow and muzzleloader seasons was identified as phase-2 of a 3-phase process to progressively increase harvest pressure on antlerless deer where needed. Following review of the public comment, DEC adopted the plan including this 3-phase process.

Comment: Several writers disagreed that deer populations are higher than desirable, suggesting that situations of deer abundance are localized in suburban areas or on private land and that the 2014-15 winter may have further reduced the deer population.

Response: DEC compiles data from entire WMUs, including public and private lands, and these data reflect deer populations that have remained above desired levels for the past decade despite efforts to reduce populations through increased allocation of antlerless deer tags. While the 2014-15 winter was more severe than average and may contribute to population reduction in the WMUs associated with this rule, strong deer productivity and recent harvest trends support the need for additional antlerless harvest during hunting seasons.

Comment: Several comments supported the proposal, agreeing that more antlerless deer need to be harvested and that refocusing hunter effort on antlerless deer will help limit population growth. Several writers suggested that the rule be extended into other parts of New York

Response:  While there are other WMUs in New York with deer populations above desired levels, DEC contends that reduction in these units may still be achieved by increasing the availability of DMPs. If increased allocation of DMPs is unable to reduce the population, DEC would then proceed with the 3-phase approach, as appropriate, in these WMUs.

Comment: Many writers expressed belief that 15 days of antlerless-only hunting during the early bowhunting season will be ineffective because harvest by bowhunters typically constitutes a relatively small portion of the overall deer harvest, suggesting that greater impact could be achieved by moving the antlerless-only period into a portion of the firearms season. Additional suggestions to potentially increase antlerless harvest included: establishing an early or late muzzleloader season for antlerless deer, allowing only 1 buck per hunter per year, longer bow or muzzleloading seasons, eliminate the $10 application fee for DMPs, allow hunters to use bait, establish an open season (all year) for antlerless deer, and making the DMPs valid for female deer only rather than antlerless deer which includes male fawns.

Response:  Establishing an antlerless-only period during bow and muzzleloader seasons was identified in DEC's Management Plan for White-tailed Deer in New York State, 2012-2016, as phase-2 of a 3-phase process to progressively increase harvest pressure on antlerless deer where needed. DEC agrees that greater harvest of antlerless deer might be achieved through an antlerless-only portion of the regular firearms season rather than or in addition to portions of the bow and muzzleloader season. Likewise, DEC anticipates that greater harvest of antlerless deer would occur with a new antlerless-only muzzleloader season, identified as the phase-3 action. However, the 3-phase approach was developed using hunter feedback, evaluated in the 2010 deer hunter survey, and incorporated into DEC's deer management plan after a public review process. DEC does not consider this an appropriate time to deviate from the adopted plan.

During development of the 3-phase process, DEC considered other options that were also evaluated in the 2010 deer hunter survey. Options such as lengthening the late bow and muzzleloader season or creating a new season for primitive muzzleloaders were viewed less favorably by hunters than making part of the bow and muzzleloader seasons valid for antlerless deer.

DEC appreciates the other suggestions. However, some would require changes in law by the New York State Legislature (e.g., changing DMP application fees or allow use of bait), and others (e.g., one buck per hunter) are being evaluated in relation to buck management strategies. DEC welcomes additional public input on this topic whenever the plan is updated or revised.

Comment: Many writers objected to the proposed prohibition on taking a buck during the first 15 days of the early bow season; a few also objected to the antlerless-only requirement during the late bow and muzzleloader season. Many comments suggested that without legal opportunity to take a buck, hunters will forego hunting during the antlerless-only portions of the season or hunt in other WMUs, so antlerless harvest will not increase. Others expressed concern that some hunters will not comply with the rule if the opportunity to take a "trophy" buck arises during the antlerless-only portion of the season. Some hunters also expressed that their preferred time to hunt for bucks was during the first two weeks of the early bow season or during the late seasons. Others felt that they are entitled to take a buck because the purchase of a bow or muzzleloading privilege includes an either-sex tag. Many hunters suggested DEC consider an earn-a-buck system as an alternative.

Response:  DEC recognizes that many hunters value the opportunity to take antlered bucks during any season and that is a motivating factor for hunting. However, there is a critical need to increase harvest of antlerless deer in these WMUs. The proposed rule does not eliminate buck harvest opportunities but simply changes when it can occur to emphasize the necessity of antlerless harvest. We hope that hunters in these WMUs will help meet this management need. Reported harvests during the early bowhunting season in these WMUs are disproportionately skewed toward antlered bucks compared to other hunting seasons. Greater cooperation by bowhunters in removing antlerless deer in similar ratios as during other seasons and increased harvest of antlerless deer during the late seasons will benefit the broader public who are affected by negative deer-related impacts. Opportunities to take an antlered buck will remain during the latter two-thirds of the early bow season and all of the regular firearm season.

DEC did consider an earn-a-buck system which would require that hunters take one or more antlerless deer before they are eligible to harvest a buck or before they are eligible to take a second buck. This approach has been effective in other jurisdictions. However, earn-a-buck strategies are generally unpopular with hunters and entail high logistical costs to implement and enforce. An earn-a-buck system may be necessary at some point in the future, but we believe the Phase-2 and Phase-3 strategies are reasonable preliminary options.

Any concern about hunters having to pass up a shot at a buck during the antlerless-only portion of the season would apply to earn-a-buck systems as well, at least until the hunter is successful in harvesting an antlerless deer, which could be more than 15 days into the season.

Comment: DEC should use incentives, such as new or longer seasons, to increase antlerless harvest rather than disincentives.

Response:  In 2012, DEC extended the Southern Zone bow season an average of 15 days by beginning the season on October 1 of each year. This gave bowhunters additional time to hunt, and some bowhunters have used this time to take antlerless deer. A principal incentive would be for hunters to help achieve the desired deer population level in the identified WMUs. Additionally, phase-3, if needed, would provide new opportunity.

Comment: Several writers disagreed with DEC's statement that increasing the number of DMPs available is no longer a productive way to increase antlerless harvest. They suggested that unlimited DMP tags should be available in the WMUs with overabundant deer.

Response:  In these units, hunters may acquire up to four DMPs through the initial draw and first-come-first-serve issuance periods, have an two DMPs transferred to them, and receive an either-sex and antlerless-only tag with their purchase of bow and muzzleloader hunting privileges. Additionally, during the late seasons, the regular big game tag is valid for deer of either-sex. Hunters have opportunity for up to nine tags that are valid for antlerless deer. However, harvest report data from 2014-15 reveal that only 1.2% of successful hunters reported taking 4 or more deer, and no hunter reported taking a total of more than 7 deer. The past couple years, there have still been left-over DMPs available in these units at seasons end. Hunters do not appear to be limited by tag availability.

Comment: Several people suggested that limited access to private property for hunting is the primary problem affecting deer population management in these areas.

Response: Restricted hunting access can limit the ability of hunters to reduce local deer populations, particularly when large blocks of land are not hunted. However, several surveys of landowners in New York have found that upwards of 80% of private lands are hunted. Yet many of these lands are hunted insufficiently with inadequate removal of antlerless deer. The current rule intends to refocus hunter effort toward antlerless deer during a portion of the hunting season.

Comment: There was no mention if the early bowhunting season will revert to either-sex when the desired deer population is reached.

Response:  DEC will adapt hunting rules as needed and may revert to previous rules if appropriate.

[PREDATE]

Oh self righteous sinner, the path to salvation is one we all must open our hearts to on our own and it is often the road of sin that leads us there. If you've been groomed as a youngster to stay on the straight and narrow and never "lived a little" then of course you'll always look down on the good ol' boys and probably struggle in life because them good ol' boys would be the first ones to give you the shirt off their backs! Undoubtedly we all need Christ in our lives, but you must understand that everyone is equal in his eyes.

Now with that out of the way, your theory IS flawed ; in part because bowhunters are some of the most dedicated, knowledgeable, and patient hunters out there. Also because of the fact that most bowhunters know that deer activity is usually slow until mid-late October when temps drop and rutting is ramping up. That being said, I and most other bowhunters will take our doe early in the season and do some in season scouting for the upcoming rut. My point is don't expect to have the woods all to yourself. To think so would be laughable. After all, NYS does have the most hunting pressure out of any other state in the country.

Sent from my LGL34C using Tapatalk

Edited August 30, 2015 by PREDATE

[growalot]

wolc....I believe you brought  Skillets comments on and I'm thinking the "baiting " you have apparently have been engaging in ...got you what you wanted. That said perhaps you should take the New testament into the woods with you and do some reading:

 

 

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

—Matthew 7:1-5

 

[wolc123]

I don't expect to have the woods all to myself (that would be "selfish" of me, not something JC would be in to for sure).  I do expect at least some less pressure.  I see just one early bow-hunter on this site who still plans on hunting those zones for those two weeks.   I also see at least two who don't.   If we can so get rid of half the early bow-hunting pressure that we had last year, it should help a lot when that far more effective doe-killing weapon, and the one my hero JC would surely chose (the Cross-bow), get's legal.   I also find it odd to see no reference to the crossbow in that long preceding explanation of the new regs.  Why is that?   

 

p.s: I like that verse quoted above.  I launched my "beam" about 1.5 years ago, there is no stopping me now.  I am certainly not without sin though, nor will I ever claim to be.   I couldn't be more thankful to be one of the "sinners" who HE paid the full price for up on that cross a long time ago.   If I can help a few others into that boat, I would be even more thankful.     

Edited August 30, 2015 by wolc123

[The_Field_Ager]

 I think you have displayed a lack of respect for God's creation by taking such an entitled, careless, & disrepectful attitude. 

 

 

Precisely, the good book tells us to be good stewards of creation. It also tells not be presumptuous and test the Lord, which also appears to be promoted by Wolc. Both of which are anti-Biblical propositions ironically.

[jjb4900]

for some reason this comes to mind...........

[wolc123]

It is actually due to my respect for God's creation that I am so strongly in favor of the crossbow. I feel that weapon is at least 10 times as effective at killing deer, does in particular, than a compound. That is also the reason I am not into "catch and release" fishing. God created animals and fish for man to eat. Few pursuits put one in a better place to enjoy and reap that bounty than hunting and fishing.

[Skillet]

To all those "haters" who pop up from time to time: none has half the strength it would require to make me stop giving the credit for ALL of my successes to my Lord and savior Jesus Christ. Thank you, and keep them coming, for I especially relish these personal attacks. That last one may be the best one yet. They embolden me and show me THE real need which exists in many hunters out there, especially on a Sunday when we were not able to make it to church because we stayed out too late at a "wild" party. What I really like about this forum is the freedom to say whatever I want on this subject, without having to be "politically correct". It sure seems to be a "target-rich" environment.

Keep up you practicing, scouting, and reading up on hunting info (it usually can't hurt) but you will never succeed in Life without Christ. I will pray for you, that you give him a chance, keep the door open, and don't close him out. Maybe take a little Bible in your pack to pass some of the quite times in the stand or blind. Some time, when you least expect it, he may shower you with blessings like he has for me. To get us back onto the topic of this thread, I do see how these new "no-buck for two weeks" regulations for my home-zone could be an extra blessing just for me. Even non-Christians scientists can understand how less human scent in the woods means more deer. Good hunting to you all this fall, and some day I hope to see you in that "happing hunting ground" up above.

You're unbelievable. Don't call me out on faith, or say I need to get right with the Lord. If you knew me, you would know that I'm an alcoholic with 2.5 years sober (by the way, I attribute my sobriety to a 12 step program I'm involved in, God, & MY OWN HARD WORK) & maybe you wouldn't assume I go to "wild" parties. You also would know that I do carry a small bible in my pack, & I regularly read it while in the woods.

Your failure to take the necessary steps to be an ethical hunter, is pure laziness and arrogance, not faith. Don't pretend it's anything else.

[Skillet]

I don't expect to have the woods all to myself (that would be "selfish" of me, not something JC would be in to for sure). I do expect at least some less pressure. I see just one early bow-hunter on this site who still plans on hunting those zones for those two weeks. I also see at least two who don't. If we can so get rid of half the early bow-hunting pressure that we had last year, it should help a lot when that far more effective doe-killing weapon, and the one my hero JC would surely chose (the Cross-bow), get's legal. I also find it odd to see no reference to the crossbow in that long preceding explanation of the new regs. Why is that?

p.s: I like that verse quoted above. I launched my "beam" about 1.5 years ago, there is no stopping me now. I am certainly not without sin though, nor will I ever claim to be. I couldn't be more thankful to be one of the "sinners" who HE paid the full price for up on that cross a long time ago. If I can help a few others into that boat, I would be even more thankful.

Now you're speaking as to what weapon "JC" would endorse?

[Larry]

HOLY CRAP NOW THAT GOD IS INVOLVED WE WILL MAKE 50 PAGES FOR SURE. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK GUYS!  

[PREDATE]

I don't expect to have the woods all to myself (that would be "selfish" of me, not something JC would be in to for sure). I do expect at least some less pressure. I see just one early bow-hunter on this site who still plans on hunting those zones for those two weeks. I also see at least two who don't. If we can so get rid of half the early bow-hunting pressure that we had last year, it should help a lot when that far more effective doe-killing weapon, and the one my hero JC would surely chose (the Cross-bow), get's legal. I also find it odd to see no reference to the crossbow in that long preceding explanation of the new regs. Why is that?

p.s: I like that verse quoted above. I launched my "beam" about 1.5 years ago, there is no stopping me now. I am certainly not without sin though, nor will I ever claim to be. I couldn't be more thankful to be one of the "sinners" who HE paid the full price for up on that cross a long time ago. If I can help a few others into that boat, I would be even more thankful.

Seems strange that you think a crossbow is more effective than a compound. The only thing a crossbow has over a compound is the ability to keep it cocked. A crossbow is not faster, does not put out as much kinetic energy, they're not more accurate, they're heavier and try pulling off a follow up shot within 30 seconds; not likely gonna happen.

Sent from my LGL34C using Tapatalk

[Skillet]

^ My fault Larry. I got all worked up and went off on a tangent. Carry on

[fasteddie]

Seems strange that you think a crossbow is more effective than a compound. The only thing a crossbow has over a compound is the ability to keep it cocked. A crossbow is not faster, does not put out as much kinetic energy, they're not more accurate, they're heavier and try pulling off a follow up shot within 30 seconds; not likely gonna happen.

Sent from my LGL34C using Tapatalk

 

I would think that a crossbow would be more effective than a compound . Easier to tweak the sight (scope) . Faster than a compound ... Stryker is 405 fps . Can be shot from a rest . Cocked until the trigger is pulled . Easy enough whereby a novice can shoot bullseyes in no time .

What's with the "follow up shot" ? With the accuracy of a crossbow , it shouldn't be necessary .

 

[SteveB]

I feel that weapon is at least 10 times as effective at killing deer, does in particular, than a compound.

Good job. Posting that backed up my last statement perfectly.

Either a troll or really has NO clue.

[ELMER J. FUDD]

Dear god, it's almost double face palm time.

[ELMER J. FUDD]

Nah, you know what, I think I'll go...yeah...triple...

Edited August 31, 2015 by ELMER J. FUDD

[Five Seasons]

Contrary to what the "experts" are saying on this thread, this will may achieve the desired effect: to reduce the deer population in specific zones that are currently "infested" with way too many deer. I live in one of them zones, and it is a pain dodging deer in the car every day on the way too and from work. It is hard to grow much shrubbery around the house, and growing pumpkins in the garden is now impossible without an electric fence.

The situation is not as simple as it appears on the surface. In those first two weeks in the doe-only zones, bow-hunters will not directly reduce the deer population. Few, if any that I know have interest in killing does anyhow. For that reason, they will spend those two weeks in other zones, where killing bucks is legal, taking their human scent with them to those areas. There, they may kill their bucks and be satisfied.

Bow-hunting had been rapidly gaining in popularity, in my zone at least, over the last 5 years or so. All that human scent in the woods early has hurt the gun hunting, resulting in lower overall harvest numbers, and especially antlerless. Years ago, when gun season opened, probably half the local herd was polished off on opening day. Now the deer are mostly nocturnal by opening day of gun season. The only thing that makes them go nocturnal even faster is when they start hearing the guns go off. That is why the muzzleloader is definitely not the answer to the problem.

The bow is quiet, and that is good, but what makes it especially ineffective as a doe-killing weapon, is the need to draw it with the deer in close. In these "infested" zones, does almost always travel in groups. Drawing a bow with all them eyes around is seldom a slam dunk. They use the "convoy" system, just like the allies used against the axis submarines in WWII.

This season, with the new "doe-only" restrictions in place, and another change put in place last season, the situation is perfect for a doe-slaughter like we have never seen. The "secret-weapon" that will take them down is the crossbow. It has the silent-stealth of the bow, but does not need to be drawn with the deer in close. Thanks to the big reduction in human scent early, they wont smell it or see it coming. They will have no idea what hit them when the crossbow opens up at the end of archery season. I almost feel sorry for the does this fall (until I look at some of the shrubs they chewed off last winter or fork over some cash to buy my kids pumpkins).

Our venison supply is getting down, I just defrosted the freezer, sighted in my crossbow, and I planted the last of my food-plots tonight. I can't wait for those last two weeks of southern zone archery season when I can start working on the two DMP's I have now and hopefully two more after November 1. Hopefully I can fill my archery & ML buck and doe tags up in the northern zone before then also. I am more than ready to do my part.

 

You sir, are off your rocker. bow season scent is hurting gun hunters. that may be the best one yet.