Sunrise/Sunset rules

[Paula]

Larry...now you'd have to have driven through Mt Morris NY to know THATS a possibility!

And Avon

[gfdeputy2]

I want to say Thank You to the guys willing to stand against ,unfortunately, the majority in saying breaking the law is not wrong. Regardless of how one tries to rationalize ,compare to,trivialize or justify those actions.

There are young or new hunters that read these type of posts and it just makes me sick knowing what they may be taking away from them...Complain about the poachers, baiters trespassers,brown down  all you want...but it is this and the people that train the new hunters that cause the problems...for if one broken law is OK by a little.... how many others in their minds will be as well?.....

Do Not whine about what you have helped to create...do not look down your noses at anti's and posters when you have helped to create the images going through their minds....

 

Wish I could Like this a 100 times

Well Said!!!

 

[Caveman]

And Avon

And Pavilion

[ApexerER]

So then I would like to know, do all of you law abiding do-gooders, who never ever break or bend a single law of the land, check the weather channel, farmer's almanac, or what have you every single time you set foot in the woods, to hunt, so that you know the minute you're allowed to take that shot and the minute you've got to stop and unload?

Actually the first thing I do in the morning before I hunt is look at scoutlook and the sunrise/sunset times for the day.....

[tughillhunter]

Antler Insanity iPhone app. I always go by sunrise/set times on this or weather channels.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wdswtr]

I want to say Thank You to the guys willing to stand against ,unfortunately, the majority in saying breaking the law is not wrong. Regardless of how one tries to rationalize ,compare to,trivialize or justify those actions.

There are young or new hunters that read these type of posts and it just makes me sick knowing what they may be taking away from them...Complain about the poachers, baiters trespassers,brown down  all you want...but it is this and the people that train the new hunters that cause the problems...for if one broken law is OK by a little.... how many others in their minds will be as well?.....

Do Not whine about what you have helped to create...do not look down your noses at anti's and posters when you have helped to create the images going through their minds....

 

I agree somewhat, what bothers me a lot more is not the guy who states he pushes the hunting times a bit but the stuff that is shoved in these young hunters faces or any hunters face new or seasoned.   You worry about the guys who condone  a few minutes before or after legal hunting light.  I see far bigger problems, we all see this every time we go into a supply store.  Deer attractants, salt blocks, deer cocaine etc etc etc.  Now go into the section to buy some broadheads, how many are aware or unaware that there is a damn good chance you will be purchasing an illegal broadhead?  Does the store or manufacturer give a crap?  I was just in the other day looking at broadheads killing some time.  Some of these mechanical heads are illegal yet I hear people even on this sight tell how they use them and probably dont even know they are illegal in NY.  There is at least one brand of Rage that is, I was looking at the G5 Havoc and they certainly are not legal in NY.  IF they cant retract or fold back when pulled out leaving a "barb" then why does the state allow these stores to even carry such products, I dont want to hear about the guy passing through or hunts out of state analogy either.  These things all tell us or entice us to use illegal products to hunt.  Now throw in the confusing Grey lines in every darn hunting regulation and expect everyone to be top notch and not break at least one law.  There are far more problems than a guy saying I shot a deer 3 minutes after sunset. 

Now what is even more ironic to me is the way the DEC has deciphered the time we can participate in any outdoor activity.  Fishing, why is it I can go out on the lake and fish round the clock for salmon but yet as soon as I step on a tributary I limited to sunlight?  Want to predator hunt?  Heck round the clock is perfectly acceptable and safe in the DEC eyes as the regulations allow it as well.  But yet we are not allowed to hunt when there is still good light for deer with any season.  You cant fish after sunset on the Salmon River because they want to protect the numbers. DEC complains we are not doing our part as hunters in our deer harvest, so why do they not give us the extra hour a day to get our numbers up?  Im sorry but these Holier than Though comments just make me laugh, you see we are all humans and all make mistakes whether on purpose or not Im willing to bet you all have done something illegal. 

[shawnhu]

I agree somewhat, what bothers me a lot more is not the guy who states he pushes the hunting times a bit but the stuff that is shoved in these young hunters faces or any hunters face new or seasoned. You worry about the guys who condone a few minutes before or after legal hunting light. I see far bigger problems, we all see this every time we go into a supply store. Deer attractants, salt blocks, deer cocaine etc etc etc. Now go into the section to buy some broadheads, how many are aware or unaware that there is a damn good chance you will be purchasing an illegal broadhead? Does the store or manufacturer give a crap? I was just in the other day looking at broadheads killing some time. Some of these mechanical heads are illegal yet I hear people even on this sight tell how they use them and probably dont even know they are illegal in NY. There is at least one brand of Rage that is, I was looking at the G5 Havoc and they certainly are not legal in NY. IF they cant retract or fold back when pulled out leaving a "barb" then why does the state allow these stores to even carry such products, I dont want to hear about the guy passing through or hunts out of state analogy either. These things all tell us or entice us to use illegal products to hunt. Now throw in the confusing Grey lines in every darn hunting regulation and expect everyone to be top notch and not break at least one law. There are far more problems than a guy saying I shot a deer 3 minutes after sunset.

Now what is even more ironic to me is the way the DEC has deciphered the time we can participate in any outdoor activity. Fishing, why is it I can go out on the lake and fish round the clock for salmon but yet as soon as I step on a tributary I limited to sunlight? Want to predator hunt? Heck round the clock is perfectly acceptable and safe in the DEC eyes as the regulations allow it as well. But yet we are not allowed to hunt when there is still good light for deer with any season. You cant fish after sunset on the Salmon River because they want to protect the numbers. DEC complains we are not doing our part as hunters in our deer harvest, so why do they not give us the extra hour a day to get our numbers up? Im sorry but these Holier than Though comments just make me laugh, you see we are all humans and all make mistakes whether on purpose or not Im willing to bet you all have done something illegal.

I would imagine the rules set for daylight hours for hunting and fishing certain species is indeed to protect the species from over harvest and fair chase. It's ridiculously easy to take deer with the use of artificial light. It's also illegal to purposely snag salmon on certain tribs and enforcement is by visually seeing rod tips go up. You can't expect the DEC to staff ECO round the clock to protect these species, do you?

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

[jjb4900]

These things all tell us or entice us to use illegal products to hunt.  

I have never been told, or enticed to use illegal products because they were on a store shelf...........I always thought they were there just to give me a good laugh, which I'll admit they do. 

[nyantler]

ethics and what's legal is not ALWAYS the same thing.

 

For example, I don't believe it's unethical to smoke weed. I don't find it unethical to speed if you're rushing your pregnant wife to the hospital. If the law says I can only carry 7 rounds in my pistol, carrying 8 doesn't make me feel like a sleazeball.

 

Point being, spotlighting and hunting in THE DARK would be unethical practices. Letting a deer suffer after sunset instead of putting it down seems unethical to me. Taking a deer 3 minutes after sunset doesn't make you a monster in my eyes.

 

How you feel and what is ethical are two different things... if your the type of person that is okay with breaking the laws, like them or not, your ethics and your integrity are in question. Trying to rationalize it with the "how you feel" argument is, again, trying to justify what you know to be wrong. Because you don't feel like a sleaze ball, doesn't mean you aren't one. Good move though trying to defend the indefensible by throwing in the extenuating circumstances argument...another feeble justification for what you still know to be wrong.

 

You're right it doesn't make you a monster to take a deer 3 minutes after sunset.. it does however speak to your integrity. This conversation however started with a guy that had no idea that sunrise and sunset was an actual time... didn't read the rule book... and didn't much care what the rule was... If you don't think that is unethical, I'm gonna start calling you Hillary!

[jmg343]

So if they passed a law, like mentioned earlier, stating that you had to turn in a certain race of people to be imprisoned and tortured, you'd just blindly follow it, because it was a law? If you say you wouldnt, then according to you, your ethics and integrity are in question.

[Caveman]

How you feel and what is ethical are two different things... if your the type of person that is okay with breaking the laws, like them or not, your ethics and your integrity are in question. Trying to rationalize it with the "how you feel" argument is, again, trying to justify what you know to be wrong. Because you don't feel like a sleaze ball, doesn't mean you aren't one. Good move though trying to defend the indefensible by throwing in the extenuating circumstances argument...another feeble justification for what you still know to be wrong.

 

You're right it doesn't make you a monster to take a deer 3 minutes after sunset.. it does however speak to your integrity. This conversation however started with a guy that had no idea that sunrise and sunset was an actual time... didn't read the rule book... and didn't much care what the rule was... If you don't think that is unethical, I'm gonna start calling you Hillary!

You don't think it's a bit of a stretch to say that your ethics are always in question when you break the law? As a general matter, I mean. After all, at one point in time it was a violation of federal law not to return a runaway slave to his owner. It's admittedly an extreme example, but I don't think you can make a blanket statement that it's ALWAYS unethical to break the law, or that your ethics are even automatically "in question." I don't like people shooting deer after sunset mostly because it deprives law-abiding hunters of a potential opportunity, but the moral absolutism gives me as much pause as the devil may care attitude of the OP.

I should mention that I don't shoot deer outside legal hours. It's just not worth risking my hunting license.

[Pygmy]

"I   vas only followink ORDERS "

[Caveman]

"I   vas only followink ORDERS "

The #1 defense presented at the Nuremburg trials. Thank god those guys didn't do anything unethical. You know, like refuse to participate in a legally-sanctioned/mandated genocide.

[jjb4900]

oh boy........

[brownclown]

I want to say Thank You to the guys willing to stand against ,unfortunately, the majority in saying breaking the law is not wrong. Regardless of how one tries to rationalize ,compare to,trivialize or justify those actions.

There are young or new hunters that read these type of posts and it just makes me sick knowing what they may be taking away from them...Complain about the poachers, baiters trespassers,brown down  all you want...but it is this and the people that train the new hunters that cause the problems...for if one broken law is OK by a little.... how many others in their minds will be as well?.....

Do Not whine about what you have helped to create...do not look down your noses at anti's and posters when you have helped to create the images going through their minds....

 

you and others take this attitude yet are hipocrites. In the recent thread by a young hunter who got his first archery buck there is 2 pages of congradulations. He shot it with after climbing into a stand with only 7 minutes of leagal light. is his behavior excused because he hadn't broken a law yet???  obviously this young hunter was intending to. And your full of it if you thinking he was climbing down after sitting for 7 minutes.

[nyantler]

Without wading into the substance of this thread, what I think is most interesting here is how many people tie ethics to the law. What I mean is how many people consider it unethical just to break a written law without any regard for the nature of the illegal behavior itself.

So this illegal behavior is due to the fact that there was a moral or ethical question to the law which makes it hard to adhere to... or maybe the illegal behavior happened because of the persons inability to do something as important as kill a deer within the time frame provided by law...$ See we aren't talking about a law that, let's say, goes against our Constitution... we are talking about the shooting hours law... which is very clear and equally fair for every hunter. No rights are taken away from anyone... and it gives no hunter in NY an unfair advantage over another. Not sure I see the problem. If your shooting outside the allotted time frame you are being unethical based on the rules of fair chase, plus your giving yourself an unfair advantage over the law abiding hunters that would have had an opportunity at the deer that you are poaching.. yes, it is poaching by definition.

[Caveman]

To be clear, I'm not defending poachers. I'm simply pointing out that tying your ethical views to the law in an absolute fashion, as some have, is a dangerous proposition. This is especially true when the laws are written by arguably the least ethical group in society.

Are poaching and human rights violations the same thing? Of course not. It just isn't a good idea, in my mind, to say in absolute terms that a person who breaks the law is automatically a morally corrupt individual in all instances.

[Caveman]

So this illegal behavior is due to the fact that there was a moral or ethical question to the law which makes it hard to adhere to... or maybe the illegal behavior happened because of the persons inability to do something as important as kill a deer within the time frame provided by law...$ See we aren't talking about a law that, let's say, goes against our Constitution... we are talking about the shooting hours law... which is very clear and equally fair for every hunter. No rights are taken away from anyone... and it gives no hunter in NY an unfair advantage over another. Not sure I see the problem. If your shooting outside the allotted time frame you are being unethical based on the rules of fair chase, plus your giving yourself an unfair advantage over the law abiding hunters that would have had an opportunity at the deer that you are poaching.. yes, it is poaching by definition.

I can get behind that. Poaching is unethical because it violates principles of fair chase and deprives others of their legal opportunities. It is not unethical, however, simply by virtue of being illegal. That's all my point is.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Wildcats160

[jjb4900]

where's the post about the poor guy out of work who's poaching deer to feed his family? that usually pops up in the ethics debate once or twice a year.

[Zag]

Entertaining threads turnings sour fast. At the end of the day there are way bigger issues out there beside weather or not someone shoots a deer a few minutes after legal sunset. Lets talk about gun control....jk

[gfdeputy2]

everyone is stating a few minutes after sunset but if I read the OP it was about a 1/2 hour after legal shooting

 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

you and others take this attitude yet are hipocrites. In the recent thread by a young hunter who got his first archery buck there is 2 pages of congradulations. He shot it with after climbing into a stand with only 7 minutes of leagal light. is his behavior excused because he hadn't broken a law yet???  obviously this young hunter was intending to. And your full of it if you thinking he was climbing down after sitting for 7 minutes.

Let's write the speeding ticket for buying a Corvette too. The owner intends to break the law? Only way to know for sure would be to ask him. Did you?

[Mossberg500Guy]

These goody two shoes would follow every law down to a "T", even if the law said you couldn't hunt or own a firearm or bow they would give up their passion for the sport just to kiss the law's ass, most laws are illogical and are upheld by a corrupted government, we the people elect officials to make laws and regulations but when a law could be in question every one is too scared to oppose it.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Mossberg500Guy

[Paula]

So if they passed a law, like mentioned earlier, stating that you had to turn in a certain race of people to be imprisoned and tortured, you'd just blindly follow it, because it was a law? If you say you wouldnt, then according to you, your ethics and integrity are in question.

Stop being foolish

[jjb4900]

wow........I've never given as much thought as to how badly I was getting screwed over the past 34 years of hunting deer with these crazy sunrise / sunset laws, as I have these past few days.......when do we take the fight to Albany??

Edited November 13, 2015 by jjb4900