Trespassing Laws

[Sharpshooter]

Has any landowner (or trespasser for that matter) had a ticket issued for trespassing on non-posted or improperly posted property? I am aware of the posting requirements (660ft, corners, etc.), but it seems that enforcement of trespassing is inconsistent depending on who/which department is called. We have talked to a couple DEC officials and seem to get conflicting answers regarding how the Environmental Conservation Law (ECL) and the Penal Code interact and which one applies in a given situation. Further, the DEC website, specifically the "LAW ENFORCEMENT FAQ" section seems to be really misleading. 

[nyslowhand]

Basic trespassing is a violation, not a crime, misdemeanor or felony. Best of my knowledge, the fine can be up to $250 if it can be proven the trespasser did so unlawfully &/or knowingly. Little hard to prove "knowingly", so LEOs likes to give warnings first and then issue tickets for repeat intrusions. A few suggestions, do NOT involve the DEC, call your local Sheriff's dept. Even then it's a little hard to prove a specific individual was trespassing w/o some detailed trail cam or cell phone photos showing an individual's face, vehicle lic #s, dates/times or even a confrontation. Don't suggest this during hunting seasons when there might be weapons carried, but you could confront the trespassers, explain what they're doing, where the property lines are, state you don't allow trespassing and that a LEO might be contacted if needed in the future. If it's a local that's trespassing, you're better off dealing with the situation as a neighborhood issue first. Like you mentioned this is a huge grey area and some trespassers will continue intruding until confronted/caught and then claim ignorance of the postings. Good luck!!!

[Doc]

24 minutes ago, nyslowhand said:

.......Little hard to prove "knowingly", so LEOs likes to give warnings first and then issue tickets for repeat intrusions......

In my case, it is hard to even suggest that trespassing is without full knowledge and intent. I put up the signs with a ground rule that when approaching the line, you are never out of clear sight of at least 3 signs. The signs are laid out so there is absolutely no way that you can miss them. So every trespass situation onto my property is intentional and easily proven to be so.

[genesee_mohican]

I live in the country and everyone out here knows the boundaries. I only own a few acres, so I never saw a need to put up posted signs. I do have good deer habitat and have trail cameras out all the time, and one year had a guy showed up on my trail cams. The DEC said they couldn't do anything because it wasn't posted, which makes no sense to me. I guess that would mean I could go walk around on any property in my town, without permission and it's not tresspassing, unless there is a posted sign up on it.

[growalot]

The only ones ever prosecuted were the ones That I got both the tag  # and the vehicle license #'s. Then I had to call the court to let them know I'd be there..call again a couple of times to make sure fines were paid..I then stopped in a talked to the judge about the problems we were having. Let him know I was serious about making it stop....BTW with cell phones taking a picture then telling them refusing to give tag # number can equal licence loss(I had my video camera),they usually will give it to you. Phones now safer...You can say the picture has already been sent. The best deterrent though was a few years of visually showing the use of video cam...,getting the word out of that. The use of many trail cams and getting the word out of that as well. Now enclosed blinds in the worse problem areas with tinted windows and camo mesh curtains...They can't tell if ,or which ones I'm in.

In other words don't count on the law unless you do most of the work. Posted signs every 60 - 100 ft with cell # and name on them..You have to make it difficult for the DEC to give excuses..and insist no warnings and you want a report filed! Same with sheriff's

To answer your question..no...They make you jump through hoops when it's posted twice as well as it needs to be.

Edited January 14, 2017 by growalot

[erussell]

posted 300 acres with one every 20 to 30 yrds. still have a holes who say they never saw the signs

 

[wolc123]

Some places posted signs are helpful, but others they are not.  My parent's farm is located about 15 miles away.  They are adjacent to a trailer park and posted signs are somewhat effective there.   The problem with posted signs is that they only keep away the law-abiding folks.   They make about as much sense as tougher gun laws in that respect.   To the scumbags, "posted" means "good hunting".  The more signs, the better the hunting must be.   At our farm, we have always had more poaching and trespassing issues when we had posted signs up.   Here, the best deterrent by far, is well placed blinds (or misplaced shots).  

Eleven years ago, I gave in to my wife's request and put up some posted signs at home.  She was scared that she or my young daughters would get shot by hunters while they were playing out back.   That year I was hunting from a blind near the back of our farm on the last weekend of gun season.  I watched a couple women with a little dog on a leash and a big unleashed dog walk right over our bridge, crossing the creek (had posted signs on each side), and start walking towards me down our lane. They walked right on past about a half dozen posted signs, as if they were in a public park.  When they got closer to me, the big dog caught my scent, started barking, and charged.   Snarling and drooling, he leaped into the back of my blind.  I fired a $3.00 sabot from my 12 gauge, just before he sunk his teeth into my leg.   The shot missed (warning shots are illegal but a landowner is within his rights to fire in self defense).   The loud noise and powder burns to the face were enough to turn him away yipping a bit.  That was more than 10 years ago and I have not had any posted signs up, or any trespassing issues since then.  I do have a couple strategically placed permanent blinds back there that resemble army pillboxes.  I suppose they intimidate the poachers a bit, never knowing if they are occupied by the "crazy guy that shoots at dogs".   

Edited January 14, 2017 by wolc123

[wooly]

8 hours ago, Sharpshooter said:

Has any landowner (or trespasser for that matter) had a ticket issued for trespassing on non-posted or improperly posted property? 

You need to send certified letters defining boundary lines to anyone you want to keep out if you don't want to post it properly.

That's it. Simple. Easy peezy.  Then there's no grey area at all involved.

I speak from the receiving end of one of those letters.(not ticketed though)

I suppose if you wanted to be a real dick, you could send them to folks who you have never seen or have never even stepped foot on your property in advance even if they never had any intentions.

.... but IF, or WHEN they do, you'll be covered to press trespassing charges with no other action required besides picking up the phone.

[Core]

Pretty sure the DEC website says you do NOT need to post property to charge for trespassing. However, when I had my hunting course a couple years back I'm pretty dang sure the guy said that if you don't post, they cannot charge.

When/if I buy land I will aggressively post it and I won't just throw the posted signs on there. I will also warn that the property is under cellular trail cam surveillance and that the police will be called on trespassers immediately. It doesn't even matter if I'm telling the truth  about the cams

Edited January 14, 2017 by Core

[The_Field_Ager]

If you ever get caught trespassing, just say you are an illegal refugee. The authorities will probably give you a new house, Obama phone, and some seed money for a culturally enriching small business idea.

You see, we live in a nation where some crimes are rewarded, and some punished. You need to learn to play the game 

Edited January 14, 2017 by Papist

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Ny laws are a joke. They make so many stupid,stupid laws and then never do anything when broken. Hell for a couple 300 bucks you can shoot your deer at night,with a light,from the road,in your car!  And you still get choice of Sex!

[grampy]

Part of our farm property borders state land. There is no place on the property line where you can not see a posted sign. We don't have near the trespassing problems now, than we did years ago. First thing we did was to become the biggest pricks in the area!! If we heard a shot or found someone trespassing, we would harass the hell out of them in no uncertain terms. Second thing we did was to allow some law enforcement guys to hunt the property. In return for the hunting rights they were to write a citation to anyone caught trespassing! Word got out quickly. And now we have nowhere near the trespassing problem we used to have. But we are still the biggest A-holes you would ever meet up with if we catch you trespassing! And still have a couple LEO's hunting with their citation books! Most times the citations are dropped or a small fine is payed. But the harassment and or court appearance deters most from coming back. Just not worth it. I consider myself as an easy going friendly guy. Until I catch you trespassing on my land! Nothing personal, it's just the way it has to be! And it works!

[52 farmer]

I would agree with your approach,its the only way habitual trespassers get the hint that they are not welcome.

[turkeyfeathers]

Side note : something's pertain to everyone but "them" 

Manage a large golf retail store attached to an indoor dome ( driving range )   Completely remodeled and due to open soon. So you'd think my sign I put between both doors would make perfect sense. Absolutely not. 4x I had people walk right in. Once I shouted into hallway saying it'll be open in a few days and he can't go in. " I know " he says as I see him trying to open the door   I replied with " then why are trying to open the door ?"  Then again with the phone ringing off the hook asking if the dome is open my reply is " not yet , hopefully in a few days". 8 of 10 x the very next question is " so it's not open today ? ". Can't even make this stuff up. 

You simply can't teach common sense and it's too bad people think they are beyond obeying posted signs with the " who me " attitude. 

[wolc123]

I don't see it as a lack of common sense, but more of pure evil, greed and lazyness.   People want to take short cuts and let someone else pay the bills and do all the work.   It has always been that way and always will be.  Someday, they will get what is coming to them.   Until then, even the greedy, evil, lazy folks fear getting shot.      

Edited January 14, 2017 by wolc123

[Larry]

Let’s use the KISS prince able here. If you don’t own it and its not public property or have permission to be there weather or not its posted YOU ARE TRESPASSING and can be charged if the owner wishes. Always ask permission.

[Sharpshooter]

Thanks for all the replies. In our situation, it is not so much informing people where the lines are or that they aren't allowed, it is that the trespassers simply do not care, so we would like tickets issued to these people. The DEC, both the officer and his supervisor, told us that if property is not posted (and properly) in NY, then they cannot/will not issue a trespassing violation. It just seems to conflict with what the website says in Law Enforcement FAQ:

"Question: If a property is not posted, does that mean I can hunt there?
Answer: All property is owned by somebody. The lack of posted signs, fences or other man made objects does not imply that you may enter to hunt, fish or trap. It is your responsibility to obtain permission to enter private lands or waters. Public lands and waters may or may not have restrictions that can be found by contacting the municipality owning the lands."

But according to the DEC, both officer and supervisor, if there are no posted signs (and you didn't get a certified letter), then you can go on without fearing a trespassing ticket - so it is implied you may enter. So essentially it is a default no-trespassing system and a landowner must take the extra steps in order to protect their property. Sort of a moot point, as the property will be properly posted in a few days time, but it seems that the DEC's approach conflicts with their own website and the approach of other law enforcement (as we have had tickets issued by the sheriff). 

Edited January 14, 2017 by Sharpshooter

[52 farmer]

Sounds like those 2 DEC officers don't want to be bothered with writing tickets,but i would bet they would have no problem if your back tag wasn't fully visible,or your deer tag had a mistake on it.

[Buckmaster7600]

The best thing I have found to work so far is to use electric fence on boarders . Don't leave them on all the time just when I think there is someone trespassing.


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[stubborn1VT]

The same thing happens around here.  I was told it's an enforcement / prosecution issue.  They can write the ticket, but then it's not worth the court's or state's attorney's time to follow through.

I also hear about the certified letter thing that Wooly mentioned.  That does work, as long you know who you're dealing with.  My neighbor had to warn individuals, then have DEC (Fish and Wildlife here) warn them.  When they came back again, they lost 2 rifles and a 4 wheeler.  So stick with it.  

I caught a guy trespassing the second day of our rifle season in 2015, and sent him packing  He had shot a 60lb fawn. You can't shoot anterless deer during our rifle season. I found the deer after he was gone, and gave it to DEC.  The next day I was in there with two game wardens looking for evidence, and caught the guy's brother looking for the deer with a dog on a leash!  He had a backpack, a knife, and few plastic grocery bags.  He got a ride in the state truck.  

Maybe the best we can do is stick up for ourselves.  

[grampy]

3 hours ago, wolc123 said:

I don't see it as a lack of common sense, but more of pure evil, greed and lazyness.   People want to take short cuts and let someone else pay the bills and do all the work.   It has always been that way and always will be.  Someday, they will get what is coming to them.   Until then, even the greedy, evil, lazy folks fear getting shot.      

C'mon man, I may be an A-hole to trespassers. But I would never insinuate SHOOTING someone!!! Let's be real here. Besides, "you" can always sic "Jesus" on em. 

[JFB]

Post the property properly and square the comers and then call the local sherif to show them it's posted properly and let them know that you have been having problems in the past. This way when you find someone and call them they know you have been proactive and have everything with your signs in place. Also helps build some rapport with the authorities. Hang trail cams in trees, works well for me and the best way I've caught guys. 

[growalot]

Ha Grampy..your the only one to say something to him about that..I waited... yet I'm told I'm sick for just messing with road hunters/ trespassers during Turkey season..and members agreed...LOL...makes ya wunder..

Edited January 15, 2017 by growalot

[DirtTime]

41 minutes ago, growalot said:

Ha Grampy..your the only one to say something to him about that..I waited... yet I'm told I'm sick for just messing with road hunters/ trespassers during Turkey season..and members agreed...LOL...makes ya wunder..

I caught it, but was hesitant to really say anything. It may have been a typo or they way it was worded, was trying to give the benefit of a doubt. I cannot imagine the sites most voiced religious member talking about shooting someone for trespassing in this day and age. If it wasn't worded wrong or some sort of typo.................

 

As to the main reason of the post, you can put posted signs up every 5 feet and the low life's will still ignore the signs. Some just have no respect for anyone else's property.

I am pretty lucky to have the private land I get to hunt up north, never seen anyone on that land or the neighboring land I have access to that didn't have a right to be there during the hunting season. 

[Chef]

I caught it, but was hesitant to really say anything. It may have been a typo or they way it was worded, was trying to give the benefit of a doubt. I cannot imagine the sites most voiced religious member talking about shooting someone for trespassing in this day and age. If it wasn't worded wrong or some sort of typo.................
 
As to the main reason of the post, you can put posted signs up every 5 feet and the low life's will still ignore the signs. Some just have no respect for anyone else's property.
I am pretty lucky to have the private land I get to hunt up north, never seen anyone on that land or the neighboring land I have access to that didn't have a right to be there during the hunting season. 

Oh the d bag definitely said be shot at a dog


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