What is the point of youth turkey season?

[Doewhacker]

NY sells @5-600,000 licenses a year, we are packed to the brim with hunters compared to other states of similar size. Coupled with less room to hunt, do you think maybe the decline is not as bad as some say it is or maybe natural to some extent? 

[Buckmaster7600]

That's pretty much it in a nutshell.  You can have youth hunts, old folks hunts, give out free hunting licenses, you name it, it won't matter one tiny bit.  There is simply no room and not enough game for all hunters to be hunting public land so without private land access readily available or for no more than a modest price tag for leases, since that's where things are going with private land access, I don't think hunter numbers will be going up anytime soon.  All I've seen is hunter numbers going down over the last 20 years, and a major reason for people giving it up is because they no longer can find private land to hunt.  As I said you could give these people free licenses for themselves, their kids, grandkids, and youth hunts once every other week, it won't be bringing too many of these folks back if they can't find private land to hunt.

All the more reason for youth hunts in my opinion. The youth seasons give us a chance to plant the seed to be a hunter. It thins the woods leans the odds a little more in their favor. Let's face it Hunting is no longer an easy hobby it's something you really have to want and be willing to work towards and not many are going to be willing to lay down a chunk of money on a lease or buy property to hunt to see if they like it.


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[Doc]

12 hours ago, Doewhacker said:

NY sells @5-600,000 licenses a year, we are packed to the brim with hunters compared to other states of similar size. Coupled with less room to hunt, do you think maybe the decline is not as bad as some say it is or maybe natural to some extent? 

My own personal observations kind of tell me that hunter numbers or at least hunter participation is not anywhere near what it used to be. And the threads that I have read here sound like I am not the only one noticing that. All that along with occasional articles that proclaim the shrinking hunter numbers has me pretty well convinced that it is not all a myth. Today we have a license for every kind of season and prey and weapon that has artificially expanded the amount of licenses sold. So I don't think that is a reliable gauge of hunter numbers. I do believe that the decline has many natural elements to it. Simply noting the cultural and societal changes and the flooding of competing pastimes seems to show a shift of interests and participation. Also, the shortage of huntable lands is a relatively recent trend started by the decline of family farms, and the mass exodus from the cities into the rural countryside. All those things point to the fact that something besides a couple of special youth seasons is required, or at least somebody should begin talking about solutions instead of pretending that the evolution away from a hunting culture will somehow solve itself.

[Five Seasons]

16 hours ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

 

 

 

 

All the more reason for youth hunts in my opinion. The youth seasons give us a chance to plant the seed to be a hunter. It thins the woods leans the odds a little more in their favor. Let's face it Hunting is no longer an easy hobby it's something you really have to want and be willing to work towards and not many are going to be willing to lay down a chunk of money on a lease or buy property to hunt to see if they like it.


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I don't think hunting was ever an easy hobby. I think trophy hunting just wasn't a big deal back in the day. So guys were happy with a doe. My dad has told me stories about them throwing a party just for shooting something with horns. If anything with the boom of crops and hunter education and gear it's easier now in some places where deer numbers have spiked.

I don't see how you can plant the seed if you don't have the land to hunt. The youth hunt doesn't give access to private land. I used to be able to hunt neighboring fields during turkey season that were off limits for deer (that's fine, field hunting deer isn't my thing). Just in the last 2 years they have become off limits. So I can glass big toms in a field and just sit back inside the rock fence and try and call them in. It's disheartening and I could easily see stuff like this drive some hunters away.

Edited May 3, 2017 by Belo

[Buckmaster7600]

I don't think hunting was ever an easy hobby. I think trophy hunting just wasn't a big deal back in the day. So guys were happy with a doe. My dad has told me stories about them throwing a party just for shooting something with horns. If anything with the boom of crops and hunter education and gear it's easier now in some places where deer numbers have spiked.
I don't see how you can plant the seed if you don't have the land to hunt. The youth hunt doesn't give access to private land. I used to be able to hunt neighboring fields during turkey season that were off limits for deer (that's fine, field hunting deer isn't my thing). Just in the last 2 years they have become off limits. So I can glass big toms in a field and just sit back inside the rock fence and try and call them in. It's disheartening and I could easily see stuff like this drive some hunters away.

Hunting was way easier when there was more private land that would allow hunting.

I have yet to see state land crowded on a youth day. So it might not open up private land but it does free up some public land.


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[stubby68]

3 hours ago, Doc said:

My own personal observations kind of tell me that hunter numbers or at least hunter participation is not anywhere near what it used to be. And the threads that I have read here sound like I am not the only one noticing that. All that along with occasional articles that proclaim the shrinking hunter numbers has me pretty well convinced that it is not all a myth. Today we have a license for every kind of season and prey and weapon that has artificially expanded the amount of licenses sold. So I don't think that is a reliable gauge of hunter numbers. I do believe that the decline has many natural elements to it. Simply noting the cultural and societal changes and the flooding of competing pastimes seems to show a shift of interests and participation. Also, the shortage of huntable lands is a relatively recent trend started by the decline of family farms, and the mass exodus from the cities into the rural countryside. All those things point to the fact that something besides a couple of special youth seasons is required, or at least somebody should begin talking about solutions instead of pretending that the evolution away from a hunting culture will somehow solve itself.

         You are right on point with that. I remember walking out on the pipe line in an area I hunt when you looked up and down it there were all kinds of hunters. Never a day in the woods you didn't see 10 or 15 other hunters not in your hunting party. Our cabin was always visited by other hunters stopping in to chat and grab a coffie. Land in the area started being sold and things. Land started getting posted per miss was refused and hunter numbers were gone. The new land owners wanted it all to them selves. Not even sure some of them hunt. Never see people on the property or hear shots during seasn. Seems like some just want property to say they own it. 

           I think the license numbers just look high because of all the separate privileges sold. I also know there a lot of people out there who do not hunt yet like venison so they buy licenses get doe tags and sign over what they can to someone to get them some meet. Also howm a NY tags are bought for kids and wife's who do not hunt but there father husband son or who ever does hunt has extra tags.

[Merlot]

4 hours ago, Doc said:

My own personal observations kind of tell me that hunter numbers or at least hunter participation is not anywhere near what it used to be. And the threads that I have read here sound like I am not the only one noticing that. All that along with occasional articles that proclaim the shrinking hunter numbers has me pretty well convinced that it is not all a myth. Today we have a license for every kind of season and prey and weapon that has artificially expanded the amount of licenses sold. So I don't think that is a reliable gauge of hunter numbers. I do believe that the decline has many natural elements to it. Simply noting the cultural and societal changes and the flooding of competing pastimes seems to show a shift of interests and participation. Also, the shortage of huntable lands is a relatively recent trend started by the decline of family farms, and the mass exodus from the cities into the rural countryside. All those things point to the fact that something besides a couple of special youth seasons is required, or at least somebody should begin talking about solutions instead of pretending that the evolution away from a hunting culture will somehow solve itself.

Agree...not the participation there used to be. Society is changing, or has changed. Hunting not a big deal with millennials. Properties getting locked down by new owners hasn't helped, but I don't blame them. Just the way things are, I guess.

 

[moog5050]

Hate to say it, but we are in the time of immediate gratification and hunting doesn't cut it with many young people.  Sure access makes a difference, but I think its second fiddle to the real issue that youth are now raised with computers and phones that program against long periods of patience to achieve a goal.  Push the button and see the result is the antithesis of hunting.

[steve863]

1 hour ago, Belo said:

 So I can glass big toms in a field and just sit back inside the rock fence and try and call them in. It's disheartening and I could easily see stuff like this drive some hunters away.

It definitely drives people away.  Many who still have access to private land may not realize it, but it's only a matter of time before they start losing more and more access.  It WILL happen.  Pretty much the only way you'll get to hunt private land is if you own it or lease it.  Owning land and paying taxes on it year in and year out for the sole purpose of hunting on it doesn't make much sense to most people.  You could go on good outfitted hunts for many years for the cost (purchase price, taxes, maintenance) of even a small chunk of land in this state.  Leases definitely would be more sensible if the cost was within reason, but with today's trophy mentality landowners might see a decent buck killed on their property and all of a sudden they'll think their land is a Texas ranch and will increase lease prices to a premium.  Hunters will then have to be hunting harder to find affordable leases every year or two than they will for the deer, turkey, etc they planned on hunting.  For many people this will get old real fast and they'll probably give it up.  I sure can't blame them either.

[NFA-ADK]

Simply put it is really easy to quite something that requires so much!  Hunting is really something you have to want, otherwise it is a lesson in futility especially if you do not enjoy it and find it more work than play.  Making it fun and interesting is something kids do not always understand, this is why our great mentors are so precious.

[Buckmaster7600]

Simply put it is really easy to quite something that requires so much!  Hunting is really something you have to want, otherwise it is a lesson in futility especially if you do not enjoy it and find it more work than play.  Making it fun and interesting is something kids do not always understand, this is why our great mentors are so precious.

Bingo!


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[Five Seasons]

2 hours ago, moog5050 said:

Hate to say it, but we are in the time of immediate gratification and hunting doesn't cut it with many young people.  Sure access makes a difference, but I think its second fiddle to the real issue that youth are now raised with computers and phones that program against long periods of patience to achieve a goal.  Push the button and see the result is the antithesis of hunting.

what we do have going for us with the younger generation is a push towards organic food and increased desire to DIY. I read an article the other day discussing how many more people are into DIY around the house and the pros and cons. I see this occasionally with new hunters who have decided they want to take another step after mushroom picking and home gardening. There is a desire to take the control away from the corporations and fend for themselves. You can't get anymore primal and DIY than hunting and processing your own game.

Edited May 3, 2017 by Belo

[Five Seasons]

48 minutes ago, NFA-ADK said:

Simply put it is really easy to quite something that requires so much!  Hunting is really something you have to want, otherwise it is a lesson in futility especially if you do not enjoy it and find it more work than play.  Making it fun and interesting is something kids do not always understand, this is why our great mentors are so precious.

no disagreement there. It is also what makes the highs of this sport so high and lows, so low. But "it's hard" is not the only factor. We've touched on at least 3 or 4 that contribute.

Also don't discount the strain we all feel on our free time. Maybe I'm sensitive as a father of 3 under the age of 5 which includes a newborn, but I relish a morning in the woods. And getting up that early wipes me out for the rest of the day. There's a job, house to maintain, kids to take care of during the day and pressure to be a good dad there with them. Going to the gym to maintain my health, sports, school, the few friends I have left and family obligations. And of course don't forget your lady.

Yeah excuses, excuses. And I'm not sure I can't answer this as I'm 33, but I just don't feel like the pressures were as high as they are today on the modern father/husband. Things have to give and hunting is a hobby. Recent reports show golf course memberships and traffic is declining. Same deal there.

Edited May 3, 2017 by Belo

[chas0218]

I find it funny how this person asks a simple question and has stated that he isn't against but people try to tear him up over a question. Personally why doesn't DEC just start the season on the first weekend of the month then it wouldn't be an issue with kids missing school or whatever. Like mentioned that parent that doesn't take his kid out hunting won't bother with youth season as it is. Personally I could careless who shoots what turkey and how big the beard or spurs are.

What I find funny is all the people that trophy hunt a mangy bird but get their panties in a wad and verbally attack people that trophy hunt whitetails. Double standard?

[Doc]

I wonder what would happen if the DEC started a small campaign of TV spots to boost outdoor activity participation? Or how about making arrangements for some school assembly programs, based on the idea of youth health benefits of outdoor recreation? The youth hunts are good probably, but they should be only a start toward bolstering up the current threat of cultural changes that have driven kids onto the couches with their electronic gear. I think there needs to be more effort expended, not only for hunting, but just the general health of future generations.

[Adkhunter1590]

I wonder what would happen if the DEC started a small campaign of TV spots to boost outdoor activity participation? Or how about making arrangements for some school assembly programs, based on the idea of youth health benefits of outdoor recreation? The youth hunts are good probably, but they should be only a start toward bolstering up the current threat of cultural changes that have driven kids onto the couches with their electronic gear. I think there needs to be more effort expended, not only for hunting, but just the general health of future generations.

Someone definitely has to do something. I remember when everyone thought the 90s kids were bad when video game consoles were getting big and popular. It's 100 times worse now with iPads and all that stuff. We have two iPad minis for my 2 and 4 year old that have some educational games on there and nick jr tv shows. But we've already had to take them away because we saw how addicted they both got to them and the melt downs that ensued when we took them away to get them to focus on another task. We took them away almost 3 months ago now and it's amazing how different they are without them.

[Five Seasons]

7 hours ago, Adkhunter1590 said:

 

 

 

 

Someone definitely has to do something. I remember when everyone thought the 90s kids were bad when video game consoles were getting big and popular. It's 100 times worse now with iPads and all that stuff. We have two iPad minis for my 2 and 4 year old that have some educational games on there and nick jr tv shows. But we've already had to take them away because we saw how addicted they both got to them and the melt downs that ensued when we took them away to get them to focus on another task. We took them away almost 3 months ago now and it's amazing how different they are without them.

 

 

I subscribe to moderation vs removal. I played videogames, still do sometimes. I hunt, I workout, I played 3 sports in high school. I've nerded out and built my own computers. Bing watched a show on a rainy Sunday.

It's about being well rounded and not overly absorbed in one aspect all of the time. Heck, there are some wives of members here who probably think we spend too much time in the woods. Sure it's fresh air and exercise but it's often a solitary activity and often stagnant. Not so different in some way from videogames.

[diplomat019]

I agree with belo.  I can play fifa on playstation for hours.  And watch youtube vids forever.  But i can also spend the day bird hunting with my dog from sunrise to sunset.  

 

Adk.  I can relate with the ipads.  My oldest son loves his technology but is just as eager to go outside and play sports.   I guarantee if our grandparents had ipads they would hve loveddddd to play with them opposed to whatever they did for fun.  Technology is all relative to the times imo.  

[Doewhacker]

8 hours ago, Doc said:

I wonder what would happen if the DEC started a small campaign of TV spots to boost outdoor activity participation? Or how about making arrangements for some school assembly programs, based on the idea of youth health benefits of outdoor recreation? The youth hunts are good probably, but they should be only a start toward bolstering up the current threat of cultural changes that have driven kids onto the couches with their electronic gear. I think there needs to be more effort expended, not only for hunting, but just the general health of future generations.

If you looked there are plenty of programs geared towards getting kids and adults outside through the DEC. Hell they even make taking the course required to hunt super easy now. If you knew where DEC's money went you would know a good portion is sent to making it more inviting to go outdoors, hiking trails, boat launches, camp grounds, Pheasant release programs.

 

I guess its just easier to be negative and dismissive than it is to take part in growing the sport. (In general terms not member specific terms)

[growalot]

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Personally why doesn't DEC just start the season on the first weekend of the month then it wouldn't be an issue with kids missing school or whatever. Like mentioned that parent that doesn't take his kid out hunting won't bother with youth season as it is. Personally I could careless who shoots what turkey and how big the beard or spurs are.

What I find funny is all the people that trophy hunt a mangy bird but get their panties in a wad and verbally attack people that trophy hunt whitetails. Double standard?

First take a moment to read my post and figure out where you went wrong in your logic. Second You tried to slide in trophy buck hunting ,comparing it to trophy turkey hunting as some sort of jab. It had no place in the conversation because no one said they didn't want the kids out there early because of their "trophy" bird getting shot...not even the OP inferred that. You may want to pull your own panties straight . You haven't let go of the AR thread yet...

Quote

You do know that it's not just dads or grand dads that take kids out right? There are many people that volunteer their time and spots to take kids out and teach them a little something about hunting. So why should they also be asked to use there first day of the season or even first weekend to do this?...BTW opening day is a Monday this year and a school day/work day for most...Do you think they should take off an extra work day to help a kid get a bird? You narrowed your thought process about this and boxed yourself in...try expanding your view to see the whole picture.

 

Edited May 5, 2017 by growalot

[Four Season Whitetail's]

More and more people want things on their own terms in todays world.  The last 2 weeks i have been stocking another private hunting group on 1700 newly fenced in property about 80 miles from the Ny City, No charge to hunt,Just an awesome piece of land with like 6 man made lakes stocked with bass and trout and a camp to die for. Very young group of guys that just want to enjoy things their way and have more than enough jingle to do it. Their kids will grow up doing the same.

Kinda goes along with large acreage landowners doing their own thing around here deciding what and how many animals get taken and when. Times are a changin again for sure. When i was younger there were few posted signs and only bigger clubs with piles of land were off limits.

[ATbuckhunter]

Sometimes its hard for me to believe people would want to take an opportunity away from a kid to go on a youth hunt. How bad could it hurt you?

[growalot]

Doesn't NYS DEC have rules about fully enclosed(I'm assuming high fenced) properties...Like, for one thing you mentioned stocked..They are REQUIRED to remove all wild wht tail deer from the enclosure and there needs to be permits issued to fully enclose such acreage?...Also they still need to abide by NYS hunting laws dates, times, and bag limits..unless they are a hunting preserve, business with the proper permits and business licenses provided by the state?

 Before jumping re-read, these are questions.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

13 minutes ago, growalot said:

Doesn't NYS DEC have rules about fully enclosed(I'm assuming high fenced) properties...Like, for one thing you mentioned stocked..They are REQUIRED to remove all wild wht tail deer from the enclosure and there needs to be permits issued to fully enclose such acreage?...Also they still need to abide by NYS hunting laws dates, times, and bag limits..unless they are a hunting preserve, business with the proper permits and business licenses provided by the state?

 Before jumping re-read, these are questions.

LOL....Your land...Your rules..Yes the wild deer need to be removed to the best of your ability the state does charge a $50 a year permit, For what reason?  Because its Ny i guess.

[dbHunterNY]

10 hours ago, Doc said:

I wonder what would happen if the DEC started a small campaign of TV spots to boost outdoor activity participation? Or how about making arrangements for some school assembly programs, based on the idea of youth health benefits of outdoor recreation? The youth hunts are good probably, but they should be only a start toward bolstering up the current threat of cultural changes that have driven kids onto the couches with their electronic gear. I think there needs to be more effort expended, not only for hunting, but just the general health of future generations.

i've come to realize a problem exists with DEC related activities.  a vast majority happen during the week when everyone is at work.  TV costs a ton for airtime that's only seen at an old folks home rec room.  give a couple DEC staff members a day and a half or two off to put on a seminar or something during the weekend.  rotate staff to have something going on every weekend a couple months before the season.  it could be anything related to hunting.  things like that in late summer get people fired up for fall hunting season.  we have a few educational facilities (Pine Bush, Five Rivers, etc.) here in the capitol region but most programs happen during the week and end up with lack luster participation.  also special season hunts are poorly promoted to reduce deer populations in suburban/urban areas.  you pool local hunters and very successful hunting groups willing to make a trip out of it don't participate.  for example in ithaca, one hunter took almost a dozen deer on the property open for the special hunt and most others took nothing at all. seems like i can come up with others.