Airbow????

[G-Man]

15 hours ago, Real World Hunter said:

Its called archery season for anything that fires an arrow with a sharp piece of metal on its tip. Will not matter what propels the arrow as long as its the arrow that causes the demise of said animal.  Bring It On.

Archery defined is a projectile propelled by a string.. 

[G-Man]

10 hours ago, Elmo said:

Yes.  While the propulsion is different, the projectile is the same.  The speed isn't that much different.  The same advantages and limitations of the airbow are the same with the crossbow.  If I had a crossbow hunting with someone with an airbow I wouldn't feel they have anything over me.

Speed is highly adjustable ..look,at paintball guns.. it is a gun simple . Put an appropriate size lead ball down it and it will fire.. can't do that with stick and string

[Four Season Whitetail's]

2 minutes ago, G-Man said:

Archery defined is a projectile propelled by a string.. 

Until it gets redefined as anything that throws an arrow. I could see the string disappear and the stick stay.

[G-Man]

10 hours ago, Storm914 said:

True but it is your line that you are  drawing  "subjective "

Just like before I talk to you and others on here my line was at compound bow .

Others probably it is at recurve and no release aid .

That Is why I think to be fair the seasons should be Defined by the projectile being fired and the speed power output  of said projectile  and not the weapon it self .  You call it a crossbow you could also define it as a rifle bow or rifle that shoots arrows  . But when  it comes down to it it  , it is still shooting  a arrow . The way it generates power means nothing it still kills like a arrow  not like a,bullet 

I can make a  gun fire a shaft propelled by powder this is not archery equipment that is by def stick ( limbs) and string

[G-Man]

5 minutes ago, Real World Hunter said:

Until it gets redefined as anything that throws an arrow. I could see the string disappear and the stick stay.

I can take my muzzleloader and put a metal.rod down it and a broadhead on it and shoot it very far very fast... ever leave a ramrod in one? Drove one thru. Railroad tie 1x..  it will never be projectile based . Heck have a drone drop a bunch of jarts on game.. ( use to drop fleglets from Planes in ww1) how would that be considered archey?

.

[G-Man]

The best part is everyone keeps bringing up the Dec as the one to allow this.. it's legislature and there is no way our nys  representatives will allow this "assault bow" my god if it was black there would be nationwide protests!!!

[Four Season Whitetail's]

25 minutes ago, G-Man said:

The best part is everyone keeps bringing up the Dec as the one to allow this.. it's legislature and there is no way our nys  representatives will allow this "assault bow" my god if it was black there would be nationwide protests!!!

Your forgetting about all the ones that dont want guns used....Any Guns?   I would not put anything past Ny when it comes to changes. Less chance of shooting a person, Could hunt closer to the cities. I am sure a whole list of positives could come out if some were to sit down and think about it. 

[Just Lucky]

I would be for it. Perhaps would get more people interested in hunting. It doesn't matter to me what people use to hunt. We all have different levels of ethics.

[sodfather]

Just for the record this is only in Virginia I seriously doubt this will gain any traction and make it anywhere else I hope . I’m just guessing but the responses I hear %90 of people all over are not for this . 

Edited February 1, 2018 by sodfather

[Hunter007]

8 hours ago, G-Man said:

I can make a  gun fire a shaft propelled by powder this is not archery equipment that is by def stick ( limbs) and string

Lol if hunters are so concerned with the definition of archery that much why then  push for compound bows with trigger release , and crossbow inclusion? Which is    A gun stock that fires a bolt with a gun trigger and gun scope gun rail bipods attached  .

A crossbow has every part that a gun has except the Barrel and bullet .

 

 

 

 

 

And why did it take till now 40 years to have a season for it in archery ? 

When people think archery crossbow is not what comes to mind . But now most people at least here except it  now .

The airbow if it gets popular will be next .

It is what it is .  Technology changes .

Edited February 1, 2018 by Storm914

[Rebel Darling]

Lol if hunters are so concerned with the definition of archery that much why then  push for compound bows with trigger release , and crossbow inclusion? Which is    A gun stock that fires a bolt with a gun trigger and gun scope gun rail bipods attached  .
A crossbow has every part that a gun has except the Barrel and bullet .
 
 
 
 
 
And why did it take till now 40 years to have a season for it in archery ? 
When people think archery crossbow is not what comes to mind . But now most people at least here except it  now .
The airbow if it gets popular will be next .
It is what it is .  Technology changes .

Yeah, it is what it is: a rifle that shoots arrows. Want to put it gun season? Go ahead.

If folks can't agree on basic definitions in the English language, there is no point in communicating in the English language. This arrowrifle is not archery equipment because some manufacturer named it "bow."

Any investors for my "TankBow"? Better yet, how about my new idea for a land mine that shoots 30 arrows? I'm naming it, "HarmlessBow."

C'mon. This is nonsense.


I'm all thumbs when using Tapatalk

[Doc]

20 hours ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

I also have no objection to crossbow inclusion, but I know exactly why the "airbow" goes over the line for me. It isnt a bow, plain and simple. Bows have limbs and strings, guns of any type, do not. The "airbow" is an airgun. Now I have no issues with opening up airguns, but I do not feel that they belong in archery season, no matter what type of projectile they fire.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could declare ourselves king and make up the rules according to whatever is going on in our brain as logic for where each weapon belongs. Just like the crossbow arguments, that is exactly the way this "air-bow" discussion is going. The news is that that's not the way it all works. We all like to issue our little definitions of the features and limitations of legitimate "bow season" equipment. But for anyone who has paid any attention to the evolution of what winds up in bow season, these little arguments have little to do with the outcomes. If it makes it easier to kill a deer, the definition will change to allow it in the bow season. My Gosh haven't we learned anything from the crossbow takeover?   Each little new precedent sets the bar for bow season weaponry a little lower and sets the stage for the next entry. It is a ratchet that only goes one way. And it always goes toward more inclusive in spite of whatever restrictions we each think we can add. Like I have said before, the old-timers that I used to argue with back when compounds were added, turned out to be right. They predicted compounds would open the floodgates to the out-of-control weaponry definitions for bow season. I scoffed and called them crazy. I was wrong and they were right. Each change sets the precedent for the next one in line. It has never been a question of how far this nonsense will go, but rather how long will it take. As the weaponry in bow season continues to evolve toward guns, we can holler and yell all we want and try to set up our own little meaningless rules. We all turn ourselves inside out, convinced that we have defined clearly what bow season equipment must have or must not have. But eventually it will come clear to all that these decisions are not really about the weapon, but more about a struggle for a season that is warmer and a time when the bucks enter their goofy phase of rut. That is really what it always has been about. Bow hunters carved out a prime season because of the operational challenges of the old stick and string. And now as other people have jealously eyeballed that time of year, everyone is trying every way possible to steam-roller over what the season was developed for. And just as in the crossbow invasion, you people have not yet begun to even imagine what kinds of techno-gadgets and crazy new things that will show up in bow season regardless of how much you kick and scream and try to advance your little theories of where the line is drawn. You all think you know where the lines should be drawn, and you will defend them just as the bowhunters tried. And you will lose.

At my age the good news is that even the crossbow revolution is not likely to have full impact in my lifetime. So this air-bow thing and whatever else gets stuffed into bow season will take even longer. These equipment arguments are now simply amusement for me as I watch the crossbow gang learning what it is like to try to fight the inevitable.

[Hunter007]

14 minutes ago, Rebel Darling said:

 

 

Yeah, it is what it is: a rifle that shoots arrows. Want to put it gun season? Go ahead.

If folks can't agree on basic definitions in the English language, there is no point in communicating in the English language. This arrowrifle is not archery equipment because some manufacturer named it "bow."

Any investors for my "TankBow"? Better yet, how about my new idea for a land mine that shoots 30 arrows? I'm naming it, "HarmlessBow."

C'mon. This is nonsense.


I'm all thumbs when using Tapatalk

 

 

And a crossbow is no different?

Learning how to shoot a bow / the art of archery .

Has absolutely nothing in common with learning how to use a crossbow just to let you know .

A crossbow shoots handles like a gun. 

Why do you think it has not been included in archery until now .

Crossbow can also be made to fire lead ball  btw just like a gun.  The only difference is the propulsion system .

Edited February 1, 2018 by Storm914

[Doc]

Hey, I want to play too. How about this:

If a weapon kills by laceration and hemorrhage it belongs in bow season. If it kills by lethal tissue damage due to destructive impact, it belongs in gun season. I'll bet that if you cleaned up the wording and put it in legalese it would make these so-called "air-bows fit right into the bow season along with all kinds of nifty things in the future.

[Robhuntandfish]

once all guns are banned in NY you will be able to hunt with bows and crossbows and airbows for the whole season. lol 

[Hunter007]

14 minutes ago, Doc said:

Wouldn't it be nice if we could declare ourselves king and make up the rules according to whatever is going on in our brain as logic for where each weapon belongs. Just like the crossbow arguments, that is exactly the way this "air-bow" discussion is going. The news is that that's not the way it all works. We all like to issue our little definitions of the features and limitations of legitimate "bow season" equipment. But for anyone who has paid any attention to the evolution of what winds up in bow season, these little arguments have little to do with the outcomes. If it makes it easier to kill a deer, the definition will change to allow it in the bow season. My Gosh haven't we learned anything from the crossbow takeover?   Each little new precedent sets the bar for bow season weaponry a little lower and sets the stage for the next entry. It is a ratchet that only goes one way. And it always goes toward more inclusive in spite of whatever restrictions we each think we can add. Like I have said before, the old-timers that I used to argue with back when compounds were added, turned out to be right. They predicted compounds would open the floodgates to the out-of-control weaponry definitions for bow season. I scoffed and called them crazy. I was wrong and they were right. Each change sets the precedent for the next one in line. It has never been a question of how far this nonsense will go, but rather how long will it take. As the weaponry in bow season continues to evolve toward guns, we can holler and yell all we want and try to set up our own little meaningless rules. We all turn ourselves inside out, convinced that we have defined clearly what bow season equipment must have or must not have. But eventually it will come clear to all that these decisions are not really about the weapon, but more about a struggle for a season that is warmer and a time when the bucks enter their goofy phase of rut. That is really what it always has been about. Bow hunters carved out a prime season because of the operational challenges of the old stick and string. And now as other people have jealously eyeballed that time of year, everyone is trying every way possible to steam-roller over what the season was developed for. And just as in the crossbow invasion, you people have not yet begun to even imagine what kinds of techno-gadgets and crazy new things that will show up in bow season regardless of how much you kick and scream and try to advance your little theories of where the line is drawn. You all think you know where the lines should be drawn, and you will defend them just as the bowhunters tried. And you will lose.

At my age the good news is that even the crossbow revolution is not likely to have full impact in my lifetime. So this air-bow thing and whatever else gets stuffed into bow season will take even longer. These equipment arguments are now simply amusement for me as I watch the crossbow gang learning what it is like to try to fight the inevitable.

Yep so guy goes out buys the greatest compound bow last thing he wants is someone else being able to use a crossbow with even better performance then  his new $1,200 compound bow . He feels screwed and 

Now the guy that got the the new greatest $1200  crossbow last year . Has the same feeling when he sees  his $1200  crossbow that was the best thing out maybe surpassed by the airbow . Lol  once they changed rules away from traditinal archer stick and string .

This became a technology war . And the airbow Will be the next FaZe of this .

Almost guaranteed it may take 30 years But it'  is coming 

 

[Doc]

59 minutes ago, sodfather said:

Just for the record this is only in Virginia I seriously doubt this will gain any traction and make it anywhere else I hope . I’m just guessing but the responses I hear %90 of people all over are not for this . 

https://www.crosman.com/connect/maryland-approves-the-benjamin-pioneer-airbow-for-deer-hunting/

"Maryland joins a growing list of states allowing for the use of the Airbow during their hunting seasons. Arizona, Missouri, Alabama, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Washington State allow big game animals to be legally taken with the Airbow. Feral hogs can be taken in Georgia, Florida and Texas while coyotes and other predators may be hunted with the Airbow in over 30 states. Florida, Georgia, and South Carolina allow the Airbow to be used for alligator hunting."

Edited February 1, 2018 by Doc

[nybuckboy]

On 1/31/2018 at 7:13 AM, Doc said:

And it won't stop there. I know I sound like a broken record about how "precedents" work on these so-called special seasons, but once it starts, there is no turning it back. Everyone seems to underestimate the power of technology, and always judge changes based only on what they see in the moment. It all began with the Allen compound bow patent, and look where it is heading now. The genie is out of the bottle.

The compound played with the hold weight. The crossbow worked a different platform (stock) for the limbs and the fact that there is no draw weight that the shooter is exposed to.  Now we have the advent of a different propulsion system. There really is no end to it. It all boils down to the fact that it is the season that everyone is after, and it really has nothing to do with anything about the character of the weapon. Calling it a bow season is absolutely a misnomer these days. It has nothing to do with bows anymore. The bow is just one of a growing array of weapons that can be legally used with each new addition taking more and more challenge out of what the initial season was created for.

Doc - I tend to agree with you.  Example: I lived for about 10 years on a 35 acre private lake with about 25 homes on it. It was controlled by a Housing Assoc. and the lake had a No Motors Allowed Rule. A guy I know had a lot on the lake but no house on the lot.  He would come fish the lake often for bass.  He would use a small john boat.  

He went to the Assoc to ask permission to use an electric motor. The Assoc voted no and the reasoning was simple - todays electric motors may only be a few HP but who knows what the future may bring. There may be electric motors installed into the hull of the boat or larger ones for the transom that may be able to propel a boat over the waters at speeds fast enough to a skier... who knows.

So like bow season, where does it end.

[WNYBuckHunter]

23 minutes ago, Doc said:

Wouldn't it be nice if we could declare ourselves king and make up the rules according to whatever is going on in our brain as logic for where each weapon belongs. Just like the crossbow arguments, that is exactly the way this "air-bow" discussion is going. The news is that that's not the way it all works. We all like to issue our little definitions of the features and limitations of legitimate "bow season" equipment. But for anyone who has paid any attention to the evolution of what winds up in bow season, these little arguments have little to do with the outcomes. If it makes it easier to kill a deer, the definition will change to allow it in the bow season. My Gosh haven't we learned anything from the crossbow takeover?   Each little new precedent sets the bar for bow season weaponry a little lower and sets the stage for the next entry. It is a ratchet that only goes one way. And it always goes toward more inclusive in spite of whatever restrictions we each think we can add. Like I have said before, the old-timers that I used to argue with back when compounds were added, turned out to be right. They predicted compounds would open the floodgates to the out-of-control weaponry definitions for bow season. I scoffed and called them crazy. I was wrong and they were right. Each change sets the precedent for the next one in line. It has never been a question of how far this nonsense will go, but rather how long will it take. As the weaponry in bow season continues to evolve toward guns, we can holler and yell all we want and try to set up our own little meaningless rules. We all turn ourselves inside out, convinced that we have defined clearly what bow season equipment must have or must not have. But eventually it will come clear to all that these decisions are not really about the weapon, but more about a struggle for a season that is warmer and a time when the bucks enter their goofy phase of rut. That is really what it always has been about. Bow hunters carved out a prime season because of the operational challenges of the old stick and string. And now as other people have jealously eyeballed that time of year, everyone is trying every way possible to steam-roller over what the season was developed for. And just as in the crossbow invasion, you people have not yet begun to even imagine what kinds of techno-gadgets and crazy new things that will show up in bow season regardless of how much you kick and scream and try to advance your little theories of where the line is drawn. You all think you know where the lines should be drawn, and you will defend them just as the bowhunters tried. And you will lose.

At my age the good news is that even the crossbow revolution is not likely to have full impact in my lifetime. So this air-bow thing and whatever else gets stuffed into bow season will take even longer. These equipment arguments are now simply amusement for me as I watch the crossbow gang learning what it is like to try to fight the inevitable.

Seriously Doc, you need to stop. I have no delusions that what Im saying is anything more than my opinion, other than the facts I have presented. The definition of Archery is one of them. There has been no "crossbow takeover", and the sky is not falling. Bow season wasnt carved into the best part of the season, its really not a mystical time of the year, that part of the season is so good because of the low pressure nature of archery hunting. If you keep the pressure low on a large enough tract of land, you end up with lots of deer sightings, deer going about their business as usual, and what many would describe as good hunting all through the season.

Whenever you whip out this rhetoric, I have to laugh because you use it in any discussion where someone disagrees with you. Its like clockwork.

[WNYBuckHunter]

14 minutes ago, Doc said:

https://www.crosman.com/connect/maryland-approves-the-benjamin-pioneer-airbow-for-deer-hunting/

"Maryland joins a growing list of states allowing for the use of the Airbow during their hunting seasons. Arizona, Missouri, Alabama, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Washington State allow big game animals to be legally taken with the Airbow. Feral hogs can be taken in Georgia, Florida and Texas while coyotes and other predators may be hunted with the Airbow in over 30 states. Florida, Georgia, and South Carolina allow the Airbow to be used for alligator hunting."

Allowing it to be used for hunting isnt the conversation. Adding it to Archery season is. Nice try though.

[Hunter007]

Really what makes it archery is the art of shooting archery in other words  technique the way you shoot it the stance the hold  you use .ext .

When you use a crossbow or airbow  you are shooting it the same way you shoot your guns .

That Is why it is not truly archery. 

But to a hunter does it really matter? 

To most no so airbow  should be  included .

Because you don't  shoot a crossbow like a bow either. 

End of story .

You already crossed  the line .

 

Edited February 1, 2018 by Storm914

[moog5050]

3 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

Allowing it to be used for hunting isnt the conversation. Adding it to Archery season is. Nice try though.

Firearms season.  At least MD applied some common sense. 

[WNYBuckHunter]

3 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

Really what makes it archery is the art of shooting archery in other words  technique the way you shoot it the stance the hold  you use .ext .

When you use a crossbow or airbow  you are shooting it the same way you shoot your guns .

That Is why it is not truly archery. 

But to a hunter does it really matter? 

To most know so airbow  should be  included .

Because you don't  shoot a crossbow like a bow either. 

End of story .

You already cross the line .

 

Blah blah blah blah blah

Open a dictionary

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

Seriously Doc, you need to stop. I have no delusions that what Im saying is anything more than my opinion, other than the facts I have presented. The definition of Archery is one of them. There has been no "crossbow takeover", and the sky is not falling. Bow season wasnt carved into the best part of the season, its really not a mystical time of the year, that part of the season is so good because of the low pressure nature of archery hunting. If you keep the pressure low on a large enough tract of land, you end up with lots of deer sightings, deer going about their business as usual, and what many would describe as good hunting all through the season.

Whenever you whip out this rhetoric, I have to laugh because you use it in any discussion where someone disagrees with you. Its like clockwork.

So then I guess I can count you as being pro airbow inclusion in bow season. Call it rhetoric and then you won't have to think about what is being done to bow seasons. It must be nice to have such an "I don't care" attitude.

[WNYBuckHunter]

2 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

Firearms season.  At least MD applied some common sense. 

Yep, where it belongs. Gun season.