The Kill When Hunting

[TreeGuy]

Thanks for that "PA" chest girth chart you provided earlier this year.  It has been an tremendous aid in estimating my family's food provisions. Now I know more accurately how many kills are needed to make it from one year to the next.       

And it's given plenty of forum members a good chuckle !

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[Just Lucky]

On 2/6/2018 at 9:37 AM, TreeGuy said:

The only animal I love to "kill" is a coyote.... The others like deer and turkey are more about the experience and the hunt. They are all challenging but theres something about a dirt nap for an animal that "kills" turkey, deer, rabbits, etc.

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I will kill a coyote every chance I get. I have no sympathy for those dirty creaters. Nasty, mangy, dirty bast***s.

[Daveboone]

As I watched the deer walking toward me last fall, I was excited. But I get excited every time I see a white tail in the woods, and hope I always do. After I decided to shoot it, followed it in the scope, timed my shot and followed through, no excitement. It was just mechanical. I have killed enough (god only knows how many) deer, that I no longer get excited with shooting one. It is just part of the process I have to go through to get the venison, which I wont go without. I have always felt some remorse and need to spend a moment or more with the animal  giving thanks, but that is respect for the fallen animal. 

[Doc]

Lol..... and yet it doesn't happen very often that we feel any sorrow when we munch into that tasty veal cutlet or those great lamb chops. And how about that 2" thick prime rib at the steak house. It only seems to happen with deer. Why is that?

[Robhuntandfish]

7 minutes ago, Doc said:

Lol..... and yet it doesn't happen very often that we feel any sorrow when we munch into that tasty veal cutlet or those great lamb chops. And how about that 2" thick prime rib at the steak house. It only seems to happen with deer. Why is that?

prob because I didnt actually kill the lamb.  I dont feel anything when eating venison steak either just at the time of taking its life.  

[NYBowhunter]

4 minutes ago, Doc said:

Lol..... and yet it doesn't happen very often that we feel any sorrow when we munch into that tasty veal cutlet or those great lamb chops. And how about that 2" thick prime rib at the steak house. It only seems to happen with deer. Why is that?

Very simple,  because we are the ones  killing the deer. I think i would be just as remorseful  if i had to kill a cow i had raised. I have seen on TV where farmers felt remorse in having to kill one of their livestock but did so as its part of the process to attain protein. I think one is much more remorseful having just killed an animal as opposed to picking up a packaged steak from your local grocery store.

[Five Seasons]

On 2/5/2018 at 7:34 AM, airedale said:

 

The kill is the satisfying, indeed essential, conclusion to a successful hunt. But, I take no pleasure in the act itself. One does not hunt in order to kill, but kills in order to have hunted. Then why do I hunt? I hunt for the same reason my well-fed cat hunts...because I must, because it is in the blood, because I am the descendent of a thousand generations of hunters. I hunt because I am a hunter! 

Finn Aagard

 

the only part of this that doesn't entirely hold true today is the "because I must" part. Otherwise I love this. I've never enjoyed the fact that this pastime, tradition, sport or whatever you call it, involves the taking of a life. I'm obviously not against hunting. But I do not enjoy that part of it. I would hope most don't. 

[chas0218]

I like the stalking/hunting to kill part. I mean it is the reward of the hunt along with the venison. I had a colleague call me out on my "organic red meat" saying it could have ate GMO corn or ag. I just rolled my eyes, I hunt to feed my family so killing just goes along with the whole eating thing. I don't mind admitting I like to kill mature deer and an assortment of different animals. I don't think I'm any less sensitive to death, for my family it is a way of life. I mean I also grew up on a farm where we would butcher our own chickens, deer, cows, and pigs so I guess I'm used to having to kill my dinner.

Edited February 8, 2018 by chas0218

[Five Seasons]

2 hours ago, chas0218 said:

I like the stalking/hunting to kill part. I mean it is the reward of the hunt along with the venison. I had a colleague call me out on my "organic red meat" saying it could have ate GMO corn or ag. I just rolled my eyes, I hunt to feed my family so killing just goes along with the whole eating thing. I don't mind admitting I like to kill mature deer and an assortment of different animals. I don't think I'm any less sensitive to death, for my family it is a way of life. I mean I also grew up on a farm where we would butcher our own chickens, deer, cows, and pigs so I guess I'm used to having to kill my dinner.

killing living animals does make you less sensitive. Have you seen how some people react to the african big game hunters? Us hunters don't lose our shit because we understand it. They don't and they're hypersensitive to it.

I think a better way to say it, is that it doesn't desensitize us. But I have had some coupe-degras and other hunting situations that were tough. Getting through them does make it a little easier to get through future kills. I imagine your first dead deer was a little easier because of your farm upbringing as apposed to some who had never killed a large mammal before. Heck I was deeply bothered by the first chipmunk i killed with a bb gun.

these aren't bad things, just observations. 

[chas0218]

2 hours ago, Belo said:

killing living animals does make you less sensitive. Have you seen how some people react to the african big game hunters? Us hunters don't lose our shit because we understand it. They don't and they're hypersensitive to it.

I think a better way to say it, is that it doesn't desensitize us. But I have had some coupe-degras and other hunting situations that were tough. Getting through them does make it a little easier to get through future kills. I imagine your first dead deer was a little easier because of your farm upbringing as apposed to some who had never killed a large mammal before. Heck I was deeply bothered by the first chipmunk i killed with a bb gun.

these aren't bad things, just observations. 

No they are just overly sensitive and think nothing should die to feed anyone/anything. They get upset when lions kill antelope let alone hunters killing them. 

[tommyc50]

Its so many emotions going on from complete boredom for sitting there for hours maybe, then totally focused if its a doe to see if its a good size.If its a buck MAKING SURE ITS HAS THREE ON ONE SIDE. Then i'm like Elmer fudd looking@ daffey duck seeing a roasted duck .I see roast, steaks chopmeat ,jerky. But when i get down and if i have to track my heart sinks and i say i know i hit that deer .Then when i see it its total excitement and then  when get to the deer then  it hits me i look it in the eye and kneel down and pet it, and look @ how beautiful it is . I say a prayer of thanks then get to work. the native americans had rituals too. When they killed a dear or a buffalo they would give it a drink of water [if you seen the movie about ishi played by that guy from dances with wolfs you know what i mean] in Germany the stick a branch in the animals mouth .its all about showing reverance to the animal and being humble.NOT like those  people you see on t.v. dancing around and high fiveing and patting each other on the back.

 

[wolc123]

3 hours ago, chas0218 said:

No they are just overly sensitive and think nothing should die to feed anyone/anything. They get upset when lions kill antelope let alone hunters killing them. 

 

The worst is when innocent vegetables are slaughtered for consumption.   What chance do they have to get away ?  Who is looking out for them ?  I have often considered starting a vegetable rights group.  The most morally and ethically correct thing to do is subsist on a pure wild game diet.   That way there is no treachery involved, like there is when you pretend to be a domestic animal's friend, only to kill it and eat it or sell it for food some day.   The wild game know your after them from the start, and they are free to use their superior senses to get away and continue living.      

[Doc]

20 hours ago, Robhuntandfish said:

prob because I didnt actually kill the lamb.  I dont feel anything when eating venison steak either just at the time of taking its life.  

That is exactly right. When we pay others to do the killing for us, we don't have to confront the fact that something had to die so that we could live. But we suffer all kinds of mental trauma when we actually do the job ourselves. Personally, I don't bother wasting emotions on my food.

Yes, I saw that episode of Alaska the Last Frontier where Otto was almost brought to tears because it was time to butcher one of his cows, so he made his kid do it. I guess we can't help but feel whatever it is that we feel when it comes to taking a life. But that whole process is part of life.

For those that have tears well up when their deer flops over, just think about the alternative ways that that critter would have surely died. It could have slowly starved to death (the normal eventual end for deer), or been ripped apart by coyotes, one bite at a time over several miles of being chased. There are also some rather nasty diseases that are kind of lingering and torturous. One thing that is pretty certain is that they will not peacefully pass away in their sleep, dying of old age. So if you need to feel something, consider that you are likely providing a rather humane end to their life that they would otherwise never get. A well placed bullet or arrow likely is a kinder end than the alternatives. If you need to feel bad, save that for when you screw up the shot and cause a lingering wound (lethal or not). Now that's something to feel bad about.

Edited February 9, 2018 by Doc

[Robhuntandfish]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

That is exactly right. When we pay others to do the killing for us, we don't have to confront the fact that something had to die so that we could live. But we suffer all kinds of mental trauma when we actually do the job ourselves. Personally, I don't bother wasting emotions on my food.

Yes, I saw that episode of Alaska the Last Frontier where Otto was almost brought to tears because it was time to butcher one of his cows, so he made his kid do it. I guess we can't help but feel whatever it is that we feel when it comes to taking a life. But that whole process is part of life.

For those that have tears well up when their deer flops over, just think about the alternative ways that that critter would have surely died. It could have slowly starved to death (the normal eventual end for deer), or been ripped apart by coyotes, one bite at a time over several miles of being chased. There are also some rather nasty diseases that are kind of lingering and torturous. One thing that is pretty certain is that they will not peacefully pass away in their sleep, dying of old age. So if you need to feel something, consider that you are likely providing a rather humane end to their life that they would otherwise never get. A well placed bullet or arrow likely is a kinder end than the alternatives. If you need to feel bad, save that for when you screw up the shot and cause a lingering wound (lethal or not). Now that's something to feel bad about.

  Not saying I am crying when I shoot a deer.  Saying since I am the one taking its life a minute of respect is deserved.  I am one that took its life, made it stop breathing , living .  If there is no pause when you kill something and it is done without any emotion then you have become more of a robot and have no emotion left then I probably wouldnt be as interested in hunting.  I could and would kill the lamb or cow if I had to and lived on a farm.  Its not that I couldnt do it because I would feel bad, its because i dont raise livestock.   

I would also feel bad if I hit a deer with a car, its human nature. Most of us have that, theres nothing wrong with that its part of being human.  

Making a bad shot is a different feeling , you dont want the animal to suffer.  Doesnt mean you have to be a robot when you kill one. Each person will have their own emotions thats part of their personal experience, what you feel or dont feel has nothing to do with my hunt.  If youre a stone cold killer then thats your particular personality.  A person who feels an ounce of remorse is also not wrong, its who they are.  If you feel emotion after killing a deer its ok. "Its not wasting your emotions on food" - emotions arent wasted or numbered.   

Edited February 9, 2018 by Robhuntandfish

[Five Seasons]

16 hours ago, tommyc50 said:

Its so many emotions going on from complete boredom for sitting there for hours maybe, then totally focused if its a doe to see if its a good size.If its a buck MAKING SURE ITS HAS THREE ON ONE SIDE. Then i'm like Elmer fudd looking@ daffey duck seeing a roasted duck .I see roast, steaks chopmeat ,jerky. But when i get down and if i have to track my heart sinks and i say i know i hit that deer .Then when i see it its total excitement and then  when get to the deer then  it hits me i look it in the eye and kneel down and pet it, and look @ how beautiful it is . I say a prayer of thanks then get to work. the native americans had rituals too. When they killed a dear or a buffalo they would give it a drink of water [if you seen the movie about ishi played by that guy from dances with wolfs you know what i mean] in Germany the stick a branch in the animals mouth .its all about showing reverance to the animal and being humble.NOT like those  people you see on t.v. dancing around and high fiveing and patting each other on the back.

 

well said. There is almost always a moment of dread during tracking if you didn't see it drop in sight. Usually the deer is still dead but if it's not clear right away... man talk about an emotional rollercoaster. 

[Five Seasons]

3 hours ago, Doc said:

 

For those that have tears well up when their deer flops over, just think about the alternative ways that that critter would have surely died. 

i don't think there's anything wrong with feeling remorse or sadness. It's human to feel that way, especially for an animal that we all really love. That's the thing most anti hunters will never understand. Us hunters care more for deer than anyone. we groom trails, plant crops, fell trees during very deep snow. Compassion is maybe a better word. It doesn't stop us from hunting, but it's ok to feel for the life you took.

[chas0218]

I could see a kid or an adult killing their first deer maybe crying but if someone cries every time they kill a deer or any animal they plan to eat I think they should find a different hobby. As my father and grandfather would have told me, "Nut up and be a man". Like I said a kid I could see it happening to and rightfully so but an adult after a couple times of doing it you should be able to handle your feelings.

[Five Seasons]

crying and compassion are different

[Steuben Jerry]

I cry every November since 1999 except this past one. Of course that's because I'm a Bill's fan - has nothing to do with deer.

Sorry for the derail..

[turkeyfeathers]

1 hour ago, chas0218 said:

I could see a kid or an adult killing their first deer maybe crying but if someone cries every time they kill a deer or any animal they plan to eat I think they should find a different hobby. As my father and grandfather would have told me, "Nut up and be a man". Like I said a kid I could see it happening to and rightfully so but an adult after a couple times of doing it you should be able to handle your feelings.

I wasn’t sure what to expect this year when my daughter killed her first deer. First thing she’s ever killed. So I led by example and sat next to the buck with her for a few minutes. She’s very thoughtful, caring and compassionate. Then took a few pics and I proceeded to field dress it. I asked her about half hour later if she was ok. She said she was ok. This was all whispering as I wanted to double up with her and back in the blind. Upon dragging him out we had an in depth conversation about she understands she took its life but we will also utilize the meat . I still ask her her feelings and she’s ok with it. She was all business upon seeing him with no delay on pulling the trigger. She gets the big picture 

[Dom]

1 hour ago, chas0218 said:

I could see a kid or an adult killing their first deer maybe crying but if someone cries every time they kill a deer or any animal they plan to eat I think they should find a different hobby. As my father and grandfather would have told me, "Nut up and be a man". Like I said a kid I could see it happening to and rightfully so but an adult after a couple times of doing it you should be able to handle your feelings.

I have cried afew times but were happy and thankful tears,If one has no emotions after the kill they are just cold.I grew up farming and have no problem taken an animals life knowing why I am doing it.

[chas0218]

36 minutes ago, turkeyfeathers said:

I wasn’t sure what to expect this year when my daughter killed her first deer. First thing she’s ever killed. So I led by example and sat next to the buck with her for a few minutes. She’s very thoughtful, caring and compassionate. Then took a few pics and I proceeded to field dress it. I asked her about half hour later if she was ok. She said she was ok. This was all whispering as I wanted to double up with her and back in the blind. Upon dragging him out we had an in depth conversation about she understands she took its life but we will also utilize the meat . I still ask her her feelings and she’s ok with it. She was all business upon seeing him with no delay on pulling the trigger. She gets the big picture 

That's key, my 3 year old (2 1/2 at that time) was a little hesitant to come see the doe I took this year. Not sure if he was just scared of it or what. It was dark after dinner so I'm sure it wasn't the opportune time for him to see it but he warmed up to it after I showed him it was okay by "petting" it. He was all about field dressing it wearing gloves and poking the insides. I think too if they are around it young they know what to expect. I'm sure if if anyone was new to the sport/hobby they are going to have different feelings than someone that is a seasoned veteran.

 

18 minutes ago, Dom said:

I have cried afew times but were happy and thankful tears,If one has no emotions after the kill they are just cold.I grew up farming and have no problem taken an animals life knowing why I am doing it.

Nothing wrong with that I was thinking more along the lines with feeling sorry for the animal.

I mean I don't like to see any animal suffer but if someone is crying over something they killed this isn't the right sport for them (children excluded). Similar to someone slamming their brakes causing an accident to avoid running over a squirrel. Watched a car about 2 hours ago go through someone's yard to avoid a squirrel....Idiot

Edited February 9, 2018 by chas0218

[cbyzerman]

On 2/7/2018 at 7:39 PM, hunter49 said:

  I use to love to take deer & turkey now I can let a deer walk by & I would rather just listen to the turkey's talk.  But I do like to wack the coyotes & see them spin around.  Does that make me a bad person?

I know i am gonna take heat for this one but don't care .  I dont even retrieve coyotes after I shoot them. I friggin hate them. 

[Five Seasons]

I know i am gonna take heat for this one but don't care .  I dont even retrieve coyotes after I shoot them. I friggin hate them. 

I don’t think you’ll get much heat. They’re an invasive pet with no real use after being killed


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[TreeGuy]

I know i am gonna take heat for this one but don't care .  I dont even retrieve coyotes after I shoot them. I friggin hate them. 

Yea, the heat will come.... Wait for it....

I've left a bunch. If they have the mange or a rough coat, they stay. I think I've shot more with mange than without. Also left one I shot with the bow, tracked it about 80 yards and didn't want to go into the bedding area during peak rut.

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