The battle,over gun rights

[Hunter007]

39 minutes ago, First-light said:

Children died in each case do you have a measurement for how bad each one was? 

Let me ask you something when a kid gets killed  by a car which happens  almost ever day in this country do you say hey I feel bad  i will get rid of my car and use a horse to go to work 

No you don't why? because Why should you be punished for someone else's bad driving.

So why should millions of gun owners who did nothing wrong be punished for the acts of  less then .000001 ? Of gun owners because it makes some  feel good really ? 

 

 

 

[Robhuntandfish]

It is not a conspiracy to take your guns . There are 8.6 milion people that have gone or participated in gun protests.  There are 5-6 million NRA members ( both est) the rest are in between. Any don't care, don't vote and won't act.  No one is coming for ypur guns.  There isn't a secret liberals meeting to take your guns any more than we have secret NRA meetings. Most people just live their lives with their own opinions and most don't want to take all the guns from hunters , even most liberals believe it or not. But when school children get shot we all want to do something about it. Amd people that dont hunt will not care or listen to an argument of why you need a Rambo looking gun.  We will all be able to hunt still in our lifetimes. And we all will follow the laws that come up in between because that's who we are.  Bit don't expect the NRA to do anything more than they already have. The change on society is also not going to increase NRA numbers or power.  Just don't be naive and think the progression of increased laws is going to stop, we will all live with them still.  

Let's all hope that somewhere all the line there is some inceased security at the schools and these things are on the decline.  And if we can't have an AR as a side effect it is one I can live with.

[Steve D]

25 minutes ago, First-light said:

Having a hardline stance gets you nowhere. Isolation is where it will go.

 

26 minutes ago, First-light said:

The tide is turning watch and see. It's all about money for them and that is going to become scarce. 

Remember that when you,  your children, or your grand children are walking to your stands with bows and spears in hand.

[Hunter007]

5 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

It is not a conspiracy to take your guns . There are 8.6 milion people that have gone or participated in gun protests.  There are 5-6 million NRA members ( both est) the rest are in between. Any don't care, don't vote and won't act.  No one is coming for ypur guns.  There isn't a secret liberals meeting to take your guns any more than we have secret NRA meetings. Most people just live their lives with their own opinions and most don't want to take all the guns from hunters , even most liberals believe it or not. But when school children get shot we all want to do something about it. Amd people that dont hunt will not care or listen to an argument of why you need a Rambo looking gun.  We will all be able to hunt still in our lifetimes. And we all will follow the laws that come up in between because that's who we are.  Bit don't expect the NRA to do anything more than they already have. The change on society is also not going to increase NRA numbers or power.  Just don't be naive and think the progression of increased laws is going to stop, we will all live with them still.  

Let's all hope that somewhere all the line there is some inceased security at the schools and these things are on the decline.  And if we can't have an AR as a side effect it is one I can live with.

Well if these nut jobs can be stopped before they do anything  . Laws will not keep changing .

 

[Robhuntandfish]

6 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

Well if these nut jobs can be stopped before they do anything  . Laws will not keep changing .

 

There will always be bad people to do bad things.  The answer is to protect our children as well as we do our banks, airports, social security offices, football stadiums etc etc.  And hopefully this occurs somewhere in the back and forth of what do we do. 

[Hunter007]

16 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

It is not a conspiracy to take your guns . There are 8.6 milion people that have gone or participated in gun protests.  There are 5-6 million NRA members ( both est) the rest are in between. Any don't care, don't vote and won't act.  No one is coming for ypur guns.  There isn't a secret liberals meeting to take your guns any more than we have secret NRA meetings. Most people just live their lives with their own opinions and most don't want to take all the guns from hunters , even most liberals believe it or not. But when school children get shot we all want to do something about it. Amd people that dont hunt will not care or listen to an argument of why you need a Rambo looking gun.  We will all be able to hunt still in our lifetimes. And we all will follow the laws that come up in between because that's who we are.  Bit don't expect the NRA to do anything more than they already have. The change on society is also not going to increase NRA numbers or power.  Just don't be naive and think the progression of increased laws is going to stop, we will all live with them still.  

Let's all hope that somewhere all the line there is some inceased security at the schools and these things are on the decline.  And if we can't have an AR as a side effect it is one I can live with.

That is not going to happen .

They may rase the age to 21 for AR 's  to  shut them up and have a better system for background checks.   This way these  psychos can just Steel the guns or get them on the black market or make ieds .

That is all that is going to happen 

 

 

 

[Jeremy K]

This was a break down of processes in place that were not followed , even CNN is starting to back peddle on their gun grab.

[First-light]

9 hours ago, Steve D said:

 

Remember that when you,  your children, or your grand children are walking to your stands with bows and spears in hand.

Finally we get the gun hunters out of the woods. Bow hunters win again!! lol

[First-light]

10 hours ago, Storm914 said:

Hey look how many kids have you known that have been shot  with a AR ? Or how many have you known that have been shot in a school  with A AR? 

I will answer for you 0 

But I bet you know  someone who has been in a car accident so why are these dirtbags on cnn bringing up a topic that does not effect 99.9 % of the population for?  AR are not a problem in this country it is a,totally made up story. 

Don't get tricked  into giving up your rights. 

All I'm saying .

Laws should be made only if they have a logical reason .

Not because they feeeel good to liberls. 

 

Actually one of the girls killed in Florida was the daughter of a classmate in High School. 

[stubborn1VT]

9 hours ago, Steve D said:

 

Remember that when you,  your children, or your grand children are walking to your stands with bows and spears in hand.

What force is going to actually come and take your guns? I'm always surprised by the "natural" progression from gun legislation to no guns in one easy step.

[Steuben Jerry]

11 hours ago, First-light said:

My God how many more children have to die so you can have your right to an AR-15

And here I thought it was because of a crazy person, and it turns out that it was because of an inanimate object.

Well, that makes it simple, just ban those inanimate objects and poof - no more school shootings. And if they choose another inanimate object, just ban those too. Eventually after enough inanimate objects are all banned, this will be totally solved.

Whew, that's a lot easier than figuring out what to do about people who have mental health issues! After all, we don't "need" guns...

[Steuben Jerry]

59 minutes ago, stubborn1VT said:

What force is going to actually come and take your guns?

Andrew Cuomo = "confiscation could be an option". Some anti-gun politicians aren't afraid to go on the record saying it. But we shouldn't believe it?

 

[stubborn1VT]

Confiscation would lead to civil war.  Just my opinion, but that's totally ridiculous.  Like we said as kids "You and what army?" 

[Hunter007]

1 hour ago, First-light said:

Actually one of the girls killed in Florida was the daughter of a classmate in High School. 

These gun control nuts use everyone of these as a  pretext  to push there agenda. 

If we can't ban Muslims or any high crime minority group  because a small percent of them do crime why should gun owners be collectively punish for the actions of  less them  .00001

It is a slippery slope. 

 

 

[Jdubs]

I have a daughter in middle school so my thoughts on this are pretty simple: Prosecute the threats, harden the physical assets and post an armed guard(s).  How we can justify doing all of those things to protect politicians, airports and athletes, but not our children is beyond comprehension.  Parents had better get engaged in this process too; they are the first line of defense.

Join whatever pro-2A group you'd like, but don't kid yourself believing that you can do nothing and politicians aren't trying to take your guns.  They chip away at our Right daily.  These Socialists cherry pick the tragedies that fit their agendas and ignore the rest.  It's happening now.  And for what?  All because the very government people are screaming that law-abiding gun owners should submit to completely failed those kids!  A Sheriff's office that had 39 prior interactions with the shooter and did NOTHING.  Our illustrious FBI that completely IGNORED not one, but two specific and credible reports that this kid was a threat.  And ultimately, as kids were being gunned down, four Sheriff's deputies that stood outside behind cover like COWARDS.  17 kids are dead and the Sheriff is on tv BRAGGING that he did an "AMAZING" job.  Sickening.

My heart goes out to every single one of those families.  Nothing will ever bring those kids back.  Not banning AR-15 rifles, firing all of the LEO's who did nothing or screaming at each other online or in person.  All you can do is protect what is yours, including your Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

[Steuben Jerry]

1 hour ago, stubborn1VT said:

Confiscation would lead to civil war.  Just my opinion, but that's totally ridiculous.  Like we said as kids "You and what army?" 

Gun owners themselves could have voted out Cuomo the last time around which was on the heels of the safe act, but didn't. I'd bet my house that if AR's were made illegal in NY (with threat of felony arrest if possessed), 90% would turn them in. And the public in general would view the other 10% as extremists that deserve to be arrested and charged. Maybe not immediately in lock-step, but give it a few years after such an event.

Edited February 26, 2018 by Steuben Jerry

[philoshop]

Well said Jdubs!

Tucker Carlson hit the nail on the head with a very simple question:  How and why does our society produce more and more people like Nikolas Cruz?

The broad-brush answer to that, I would posit, is the incessant creep of Progressive Socialism in this country. It has many tentacles including the public school indoctrination system, the attacks on masculinity in all forms (real and perceived), the attempts to erase history including the historic failures of Socialism itself, the emphasis on 'the collective' rather than individual rights..........

[airedale]

13 hours ago, Pygmy said:

 

Whether you like the NRA or not, the NRA is THE biggest reason that  we still have the gun rights that we still  have in this country...

The fact that the antis wail and whine  about the NRA is  proof  positive of that...

I wonder if some of you  non-supporters DESERVE what gun rights the rest of us have struggled to preserve for you...

I am sending in my donation tomorrow...NRA  Life member,  loud and proud

 

What He Said!!!!!

Al

[Rattler]

For all of you who won't join the NRA, there is strength in numbers.  If every gun owner was an NRA member and the membership was 50 million instead of 5 million, I guarantee we would not be seeing the kind 2nd Amendment attacks we see now.  And because so many gun owners are not NRA members, the anti's can claim most of them do not support the 2nd Amendment.  Perhaps they are right about that.

If you think allowing the government to ban AR's will stop school shootings, you are in denial.  If you think they won't come after other guns afterwards, you are in denial.  Don't you remember when handguns were the tool of Satan and needed to be banned?  That will be where the anti's go next.

If you don't think the authorities can confiscate what they ban, you need to realize they are already trying (and succeeding).  They have registration, NICS data, laws that criminalize a man for nothing other than violation of a gun law, which can deny you your right to own a gun, and the ability to come after individuals without breaking down the door of their home.  And you can expect those efforts to intensify as the years go by.

If you are a gun owner today, you are the #1 target of Leftists, Socialists, Democrats and cowardly sheep.  You have been painted as the devil incarnate in the US today.  No amount of compromise, appeasement or apology is going to change it.  Debating these people and refuting their views with facts will not work, because they are not being rational and acting like rabid wolves that smell blood.  The only thing that will work is having ALL gun owners unite as a single unit that sends the same message and tells the anti's we will not comply!  And we will not comply because we are NOT the problem, attacking us will not solve the problem and we will not be made to suffer the consequences that should be applied to criminals and murderers.

There is currently only one way this can be effectively accomplished in this country.  All gun owners MUST unite under one name and speak with one voice, showing this country we have the numbers to prevail.  The only name that currently exists that will be able to make this happen is the NRA!

If you are not an NRA member, don't support their message or contradict their goals, you are not in this fight, are helping the opposition, and you can best serve the cause by staying out of it entirely.

Proud Life Member of the NRA since 1980 and tired of all the gun owners who think they know better than the oldest civil rights org in the land, the premier defender of the ENTIRE US Constitution and Bill of Rights and the only US org that is actually succeeding in restoring 2nd Amendment rights in America.  (And they could do a lot more if they had 50 million committed members!)

The above information is what goes through my mind whenever I speak to a gun owner who is not an NRA member.  Often I speak this truth to their face.  If they decide not to join after I tell them this, I see no reason to hunt or shoot with them anymore.  I just feel sorry for them from that point on.  Because one day, they will be wishing they could trade all the days for the rest of their lives, for a chance to go back and be part of the fight.

 

[Hunter007]

Turns out this thing could have been stopped by the parents or the cops or the FBI slowly the truth about it is coming out if you have incompetent people running things in goverment these things will happen more then they should they were warmed about this guy .

He made death threats multiple times he could have been charged but cops gave him a pass 30 times  .

The real problem is who was running the police department down there 

[steve863]

1 hour ago, philoshop said:

Well said Jdubs!

Tucker Carlson hit the nail on the head with a very simple question:  How and why does our society produce more and more people like Nikolas Cruz?

The broad-brush answer to that, I would posit, is the incessant creep of Progressive Socialism in this country. It has many tentacles including the public school indoctrination system, the attacks on masculinity in all forms (real and perceived), the attempts to erase history including the historic failures of Socialism itself, the emphasis on 'the collective' rather than individual rights..........

Yeah, so why doesn't Europe have more of these type of mass killings since most countries in Europe are way more socialist than we are??  Other than some of the immigrant jihadists that may have wrecked some havoc in Europe over the last few years, it's not like mass killings happen there very often by native Europeans.  There was one well publicized mass killing in Norway a few years ago by a native where he killed 77 and that guy was a neo-nazi, so he sure as hell wasn't indoctrinated by the type of socialists you are talking about.  Your "broad-brush" answer really doesn't hold much water I'm afraid.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rattler]

1 hour ago, steve863 said:

Yeah, so why doesn't Europe have more of these type of mass killings since most countries in Europe are way more socialist than we are??  Other than some of the immigrant jihadists that may have wrecked some havoc in Europe over the last few years, it's not like mass killings happen there very often by native Europeans.  There was one well publicized mass killing in Norway a few years ago by a native where he killed 77 and that guy was a neo-nazi, so he sure as hell wasn't indoctrinated by the type of socialists you are talking about.  Your "broad-brush" answer really doesn't hold much water I'm afraid.

Perhaps it is because they are not free people and haven't got the means to carry out mass killings like people who have freedom of choice do.  In a socialist environment, you're free to do whatever the government let's you do.  That is the incessant creep of Progressive Socialism.  That isn't to say banning freedom is the answer to violence.  I would much rather live in a free society with all it's risks, than live in a dull environment that lacks liberty and the pursuit of happiness in the name of government controlled security.

Edited February 26, 2018 by Rattler

[philoshop]

1 hour ago, steve863 said:

Yeah, so why doesn't Europe have more of these type of mass killings since most countries in Europe are way more socialist than we are??  Other than some of the immigrant jihadists that may have wrecked some havoc in Europe over the last few years, it's not like mass killings happen there very often by native Europeans.  There was one well publicized mass killing in Norway a few years ago by a native where he killed 77 and that guy was a neo-nazi, so he sure as hell wasn't indoctrinated by the type of socialists you are talking about.  Your "broad-brush" answer really doesn't hold much water I'm afraid.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You've basically answered your own question. European countries are government-controlled Socialist societies. The citizens have abdicated their rights of individualism to 'the collective'. In most cases those citizens were coerced by 'the collective' simply because of their proximity to one another. That's how the EU was formed.

America was founded on individualism, and a fair number of us don't want to give that up. We're a very unique nation in many ways and it's a patriotic duty to make sure that we don't become "more like Europe". If you worship European Socialism, American individualism grants you the Liberty to move there at any time, no questions asked. Suggesting that America should (or has to) adopt European values is what doesn't hold water.

[steve863]

27 minutes ago, Rattler said:

Perhaps it is because they are not free people and haven't got the means to carry out mass killings like people who have freedom of choice do.  In a socialist environment, you're free to do whatever the government let's you do.  That isn't to say banning freedom is the answer to violence.  I would much rather live in a free society with all it's risks, than live in a dull environment that lacks liberty and the pursuit of happiness in the name of government controlled security.

So, you are saying that the reason there are less mass killings in Europe is because they "haven't got the means to carry out mass killing"??   In other words fewer guns available would equal fewer mass shootings?  You sure are making a good argument for what the anti-gun side has been trying to say all along, aren't you?  LOL

 

 

 

 

 

[chas0218]

2 hours ago, Steuben Jerry said:

Gun owners themselves could have voted out Cuomo the last time around which was on the heels of the safe act, but didn't. I'd bet my house that if AR's were made illegal in NY (with threat of felony arrest if possessed), 90% would turn them in. And the public in general would view the other 10% as extremists that deserve to be arrested and charged. Maybe not immediately in lock-step, but give it a few years after such an event.

That is doubtful being that less than 1% registered their AR when they were supposed too. Now you can get around registering by making them compliant but there wasn't anything available to do this when they passed through the Safe Act. It took a little work to figure out what was legal and what wasn't.