For Or Against Full Inclusion

[Nomad]

The camels nose is under the tent , it’s just a matter of time. Add in the aging bow hunters and it’s a sure thing eventually.

At age 50 the number of bow hunters is 50% of the number who,hunted at age 40. Why is that , at an age when money and free time has increased , yet half drop out ?  We get weaker , body parts don’t function like they used to, so,the bow gets hung up and we loose more hunters . Oh sure there’s always a few like Doc and Fast Eddie that made it to,the top of the pyramid, but many of us have or are close to,dropping out way before that age though .

Some say, “let the older guys use them “,  then arbitrarily throw our age 60, the trouble is that’s a good ten years late . Losing 50% by age 50 means we’ve lost many in their late 40’s reality is you’d have to drop 60 down to 45 . I can hear the uproar now .

[Jeremy K]

36 minutes ago, Stay at home Nomad said:

The camels nose is under the tent , it’s just a matter of time. Add in the aging bow hunters and it’s a sure thing eventually.

At age 50 the number of bow hunters is 50% of the number who,hunted at age 40. Why is that , at an age when money and free time has increased , yet half drop out ?  We get weaker , body parts don’t function like they used to, so,the bow gets hung up and we loose more hunters . Oh sure there’s always a few like Doc and Fast Eddie that made it to,the top of the pyramid, but many of us have or are close to,dropping out way before that age though .

Some say, “let the older guys use them “,  then arbitrarily throw our age 60, the trouble is that’s a good ten years late . Losing 50% by age 50 means we’ve lost many in their late 40’s reality is you’d have to drop 60 down to 45 . I can hear the uproar now .

Where did you get the 50 percent statistic from? 

[Dinsdale]

10 minutes ago, Jeremy K said:

Where did you get the 50 percent statistic from? 

Wisconsin study.....

Some quicky google;

https://www.bowhunting.com/blog/2016/02/08/why-do-bowhunters-drop-out-by-age-50/

[Doc]

43 minutes ago, Stay at home Nomad said:

The camels nose is under the tent , it’s just a matter of time. Add in the aging bow hunters and it’s a sure thing eventually.

At age 50 the number of bow hunters is 50% of the number who,hunted at age 40. Why is that , at an age when money and free time has increased , yet half drop out ?  We get weaker , body parts don’t function like they used to, so,the bow gets hung up and we loose more hunters . Oh sure there’s always a few like Doc and Fast Eddie that made it to,the top of the pyramid, but many of us have or are close to,dropping out way before that age though .

Some say, “let the older guys use them “,  then arbitrarily throw our age 60, the trouble is that’s a good ten years late . Losing 50% by age 50 means we’ve lost many in their late 40’s reality is you’d have to drop 60 down to 45 . I can hear the uproar now .

You know, there are a lot of the Adirondack high peaks that are past my abilities now. But I am not lobbying for the state to build a road to the top. I cannot do foot races anymore, but I do not ask anyone to change the rules so I can do the races in a car. There are a lot of things that I can no longer do, but I understand that there comes a time for all of us that we gracefully accept aging and not make the rest of the world accommodate me.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

3 minutes ago, Doc said:

You know, there are a lot of the Adirondack high peaks that are past my abilities now. But I am not lobbying for the state to build a road to the top. I cannot do foot races anymore, but I do not ask anyone to change the rules so I can do the races in a car. There are a lot of things that I can no longer do, but I understand that there comes a time for all of us that we gracefully accept aging and not make the rest of the world accommodate me.

Yeah Larry,   What Doc said. Go sit in the corner and keep wishing you could take part int he sport you love. Quit your whining, what were you thinking beating your body up in the service of the public. You should have been an Engineer and sat behind a desk, then you could have bow hunted late in life. 

[Hunter007]

54 minutes ago, Stay at home Nomad said:

The camels nose is under the tent , it’s just a matter of time. Add in the aging bow hunters and it’s a sure thing eventually.

At age 50 the number of bow hunters is 50% of the number who,hunted at age 40. Why is that , at an age when money and free time has increased , yet half drop out ?  We get weaker , body parts don’t function like they used to, so,the bow gets hung up and we loose more hunters . Oh sure there’s always a few like Doc and Fast Eddie that made it to,the top of the pyramid, but many of us have or are close to,dropping out way before that age though .

Some say, “let the older guys use them “,  then arbitrarily throw our age 60, the trouble is that’s a good ten years late . Losing 50% by age 50 means we’ve lost many in their late 40’s reality is you’d have to drop 60 down to 45 . I can hear the uproar now .

The point of early archery season  was to get people to get into the sport of traditioal archery .

Now If  you let even the young guys  use a crossbow in all the season 

That is less people that will try out traditional bowhunting .

The point is you  need some incentive to get younger people into the sport . Or else almost nobody will try it .

I can remember when I was a kid only getting into archery because I  wanted  to hunt more .

Now if there was a xbow  season in all of archery back then chances are I would have never gotten into  traditional archery at all .

It is the same with muzzleloader season 

No special season and you would almost have nobody getting into that sport either.

When your older 60 plus then or disabled at that point im ok with that .

But for the young just to get them into the sport of traditional archery you need that incentive I think.

 

 

Edited April 9, 2018 by Storm914

[Doc]

6 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Yeah Larry,   What Doc said. Go sit in the corner and keep wishing you could take part int he sport you love. Quit your whining, what were you thinking beating your body up in the service of the public. You should have been an Engineer and sat behind a desk, then you could have bow hunted late in life. 

Hey....Life's a bitch and then you die. Try not to be a pain in arse while that's all happening.....lol. I think the problem is that I never got into the entitlement mode that is setting in with a lot of people.

But as I have been saying right along, if you really feel that the bow season field needs leveling, then don't be half-way about it. Why are you thinking that the old-timers and the infirm should be saddled with the awkward, heavy and clunky crossbows. Be consistent in your thinking and let the guns in. But no, it turns out that there is that selfish, elitist, exclusionary thing at work even amongst the crossbow enthusiasts isn't there?  It wasn't just bowhunters was it?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

27 minutes ago, Doc said:

Hey....Life's a bitch and then you die. Try not to be a pain in arse while that's all happening.....lol. I think the problem is that I never got into the entitlement mode that is setting in with a lot of people.

But as I have been saying right along, if you really feel that the bow season field needs leveling, then don't be half-way about it. Why are you thinking that the old-timers and the infirm should be saddled with the awkward, heavy and clunky crossbows. Be consistent in your thinking and let the guns in. But no, it turns out that there is that selfish, elitist, exclusionary thing at work even amongst the crossbow enthusiasts isn't there?  It wasn't just bowhunters was it?

I've got about every style of legal implement and enjoy using them all. If they came out with an atlatl or a spear season I would probably try that too. You could look at the people that are for inclusion as feeling "entitled" but you could look at those opposed as well and see them like the crotchety old geezer that is more interested in what the neighbors are doing than anything else. Or being a person that lets how others are doing something  define their happiness.

I just picked up a crossbow this past season because the deal presented itself and work out well for me. I carried it during that season.  But the previous years I hunted with two friends that hung up their compounds for crossbows. So there I was, sharing the same woods with two of the evil minions. Guess what happened? Not a thing was different than the years previous. We still enjoyed breakfast, had some laughs and they even took a couple deer that we butchered and made sausage. We enjoyed that great food over beers at hunting camp. The sky didn't fall. The God of Traditional archery didn't shoot lightening bolts from the sky.  The seasons came and went and according to the NYDEC and their harvest numbers there really wasn't an impact on the overall archery take. 

[Nomad]

Speaking of dying .....

One year ago I did not care one way or another about Xbows, but I just joined NYS Crossbow Coalition, Said I was referred by Doc, Belo and Stormy thanks for getting me motivated guys , although you cost me $120, but that’s just a start I got plenty more $ and time to give .

Edited April 9, 2018 by Stay at home Nomad

[Five Seasons]

3 hours ago, Just Lucky said:

I believe its the bow hunters against full inclusion cause somone else will kill "their" deer

 

3 hours ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

We’ve been through it. I’ve seen a range from “nothing” all the way over to medical reasons. It’s a wide range of answers.

Despite disability, which I believe needs to be fixed, the real answer comes down to will and desire. If you're well bodied, nothing should stop the gun hunter from entering the archery woods. Bowhunters aren't advocating for reduced archery tags, which is what you're implying.

 But the crossbow is indisputably easier (I didn't say easy). And yes, plenty of us are on record as not wanting that guy in the woods. And it's not because he will shoot my deer. It's because he was never passionate enough to pick up the compound and take the time to become proficient with it. So one can infer that he's less likely to spend hours prepping. Cutting shooting lanes to reduce deflection, spending time and money on scent prevention and calculating which stands to hunt and how often. These are things that worry the bowhunter. More pressure isn't good and a careless bowhunter may drive the targeted deer nocturnal. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

6 minutes ago, Belo said:

. Bowhunters aren't advocating for reduced archery tags, which is what you're implying.

 

Where did I imply that? 

[tughillmcd]

22 hours ago, wolc123 said:

The best part is, the more the anti-full inclusion folks reply, the more often the truth (poll results) comes back up to the top for all to see.   

One thing this poll has done is gained New York Crossbow Coalition a new member and his $100 donation! Thank you to Doc, Belo , stormy914, you were listed as who referred him to us!

You are doing for us what Obama did for gun sales!

nycrossbowcoalition.com/membership

Edited April 9, 2018 by tughillmcd

[Berniebear]

I am 77 and would welcome full inclusion of crossbows. I enjoy hunting all I can and can no longer use a regular Compound bow .I would like to be able to get out there when the weather is warmer .

[wolc123]

26 minutes ago, tughillmcd said:

One thing this poll has done is gained New York Crossbow Coalition a new member and his $100 donation! Thank you to Doc, Belo , stormy914, you were listed as who referred him to us!

You are doing for us what Obama did for gun sales!

nycrossbowcoalition.com/membership

It is a great poll there is no doubt about that.   Some of those anti-full inclusion die-hards have to be getting some pretty sore feet about now.  I sent your fine organization some money for a couple shirts (check out small game - groundhog thread), and I might just have send more and join up this year.   

[Hunter007]

I don't care if xbows kill my deer that's a silly argument because all any bow hunter has to do is buy a xbow and even the playing field  that is what will happen the problem is that you will pretty much kill off the sport of traditional archery. There  will be less incentive for kids to try out traditional archery if you don't give it  its own season. 

Just imagine if you could use a gun in every season lol 

Who would use these other weapons  almost nobody  lol 

That is the issue really. 

It's not about who kills what deer . You want to really drop deer numbers give out  more tags in gun season and make that longer . 

Edited April 9, 2018 by Storm914

[tughillmcd]

2 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

... I might just have send more and join up this year.   

Membership is the most important part of the fight. The more members we have the stronger we become! We need you and all the other crossbow enthusiasts to join forces with us.

To answer the questions in previous posts to this thread on how many crossbow hunters are current or former bowhunters, of our current 969 members, 601 are current bowhunters and 308 are former bowhunters. Which equates to 94%.

 

[fasteddie]

I will use my crossbow the last two weeks when it's allowed and still don't want full inclusion .

Attention --- don't shoot my deer ....... 

 

[tughillmcd]

15 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

I don't care if xbows kill my deer that's a silly argument because all any bow hunter has to do is buy a xbow and even the playing field  that is what will happen the problem is that you will pretty much kill off the sport of traditional archery. There  will be less incentive for kids to try out traditional archery if you don't give it  its own season.

If Crossbow Full inclusion will kill off traditional archery, why hasn't that happened in Ohio where crossbows have been classified as archery equipment and used side by side with all other bows for 40+ years ?

http://wildlife.ohiodnr.gov/Portals/wildlife/pdfs/publications/hunting/Pub 5304_DeerSummary_R0916.pdf

Edited April 9, 2018 by tughillmcd

[Steuben Jerry]

On 4/5/2018 at 4:18 PM, Steuben Jerry said:

I ate all my popcorn the last few times this subject came up. Prediction; 12 pages?

5 pages to go...

[DirtTime]

Seen the term "Traditional Archery" mentioned a lot on these topics. To be completely honest, I don't consider my compound bow "traditional archery" gear. I know a few on here still hunt with trad bows, moog is a shining example of that.

What is traditional archery? To me, it's a long bow, a recurve.

 

[wolc123]

20 minutes ago, fasteddie said:

I will use my crossbow the last two weeks when it's allowed and still don't want full inclusion .

Attention --- don't shoot my deer ....... 

 

Those are lined up pretty good right there.  Someone 20 yards away could get two hearts with one bolt from a 300 fps crossbow.   

[Jeremy K]

13 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

Those are lined up pretty good right there.  Someone 20 yards away could get two hearts with one bolt from a 300 fps crossbow.   

You would just end up with half a bolt getting stuck in the second deer.

[wolc123]

2 minutes ago, Jeremy K said:

You would just end up with half a bolt getting stuck in the second deer.

8" of penetration would be enough to get it all the way thru the heart and put it down within 40 yards.

[bkln]

will still do the job

[Hunter007]

1 hour ago, tughillmcd said:

If Crossbow Full inclusion will kill off traditional archery, why hasn't that happened in Ohio where crossbows have been classified as archery equipment and used side by side with all other bows for 40+ years ?

http://wildlife.ohiodnr.gov/Portals/wildlife/pdfs/publications/hunting/Pub 5304_DeerSummary_R0916.pdf

If it is all in one season no way to no that. 

Just like how would you no how many deer are shot with  a 30-06  versus a 30 30

But nice try