Realistic Patterns

[dbHunterNY]

Seems in today's world of TSS shot, shotshell designs, super tight expensive chokes, and smithed barrels with lengthened forcing cones everyone cares about what their guns can do at 40 yards or more.  honestly, for a second i started to second guess my setup i've put minimal work into. 23 or so #6 hevi-13 pellets through a 12oz beverage can at 45 yards wasn't sufficient for a couple people apparently.  seems like you only hear about the above average patterns. I grounded myself and called it good enough as i know it works.  That said equipment has improved from what was available yesterday. so my question, are these results sub-par for what you'd expect out of what's overall currently available?  Would it be worth it to look into improving/tightening my pattern?

[dbHunterNY]

Pic for reference. Despite I posted it elsewhere.

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[rob-c]

Guys have been killing turkeys long before super tight patterns. But having said that, You really should shoot at a turkey target to  get a good idea just how many pellets you are getting in the head/ neck. Google printable turkey head targets, you should get a bunch of free printable targets to shoot. I printed off about 40 for my son and myself. Put them on a 3ft by3ft cardboard so you can see were your shot pattern is hitting. We had to adjust the red dots on our guns to bring the patterns in to center on the turkey targets. After we did that we were getting very good patterns.especially after I bought another choke for the 20 , holy smokes was I happy.

Edited May 2, 2018 by rob-c

[Buckmaster7600]

It’s like everything else these days. Guys need 200hp snowmobile’s to ride trails, 400hp trucks to pull boats, magnums to kill deer, the fact is we all got by just fine 20yrs ago.

I go out of my way to get as open a pattern as possible. I have never wounded or missed a turkey that was too far but I sure have missed them when they were
Too close!


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[chrisw]

I look at turkey hunting like bow hunting, while it's imperative to know your maximum range, that shouldn't be anyone's goal, turkey hunting is a game of how close, not how far to me.

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[turkeyfeathers]

Try Winchester xrs if your looking to tighten the pattern.  That’s a 22$ box of 10 fix.  IMO try 5’s.  What tube you have ? The answer to your question is “ you’re fine “ with your pattern currently. I’m always tinkering with different loads. It’s a hobby. Winchester xrs in my gun and choke are too tight. I drew a 10” circle around a black dot and shot from 65 yards.  92 in that circle. And it blew over the sheet of plywood behind the cardboard with some energy. I don’t need a gun that shoots that far. If he isn’t inside 40 yards I didn’t “ fool him “ 

[123]

using Hevi-13"s #6 out of a 11-87, NWTF  25th Anniversary gun with a Hevi-Shot Choke tube (branded by hevi-shot) I get 42-43 pellets in a 3" circle at 40 yards. Other than a clean barrel, no modifications

[DirtTime]

I say if you have a set up that's working for you why change it?

 

I have never hunted turkey with anything but a bead style sight. The reason I go out and pattern is to see where I have to aim to get the most shot going into the head/neck area and less in the body. This isn't always easy using bead style sights. If I was using a scope, things would be easier, I could set a zero to the best group of shot ( pattern ), then adjust the scope up to make sure more shot hit the head/neck and not the body. Just my $.01.

Edited May 2, 2018 by Rob...

[Doewhacker]

2 hours ago, dbHunterNY said:

so my question, are these results sub-par for what you'd expect out of what's overall currently available?

I have no idea how to answer this because no one uses tin cans as a measurement for pattering a gun.  I don’t intend that to be taken as mean, I just have no way of comparing it. 

I have seen and had loads that leave holes in the pattern and be uneven. 

Didnt you say you shoot 3.5’s because they don’t make 4’s? Why do that if it’s not needed either? 

[Doewhacker]

4 minutes ago, Rob... said:

I say if you have a set up that's working for you why change it?

 

I have never hunted turkey with anything but a bead style sight. The reason I go out and pattern is to see where I have to aim to get the most shot going into the head/neck area and less in the body. This isn't always easy using bead style sights. If I was using a scope, things would be easier, I could set a zero to the best group of shot ( pattern ), then adjust the scope up to make sure more shot hit the head/neck and not the body. Just my $.01.

Separate topic but check out shimming a shot gun stock. It helps center everything up so you don’t have to hold the bead high or low etc. 

[mowin]

I've got a killer pattern out to 50 yrds with Winchester long beard XR.  

However, the longest shot I'll take is 40 yrds. Like 'em  around 30 yrds. Rarely let 'em get closer than 25 yrds.  However I've shot several at 5-8 yrds do to terrain or heavy brush.  

[moog5050]

I haven’t shot at a live turkey yet but my 12g with a jelly head choke and hevi shot mix is a tight pattern.  If it happens, I would prefer to shoot at 20yds or even 30yds vs 5.  

[G-Man]

I would be happy with the tin can results. My turkey gun shoots patterns so tight a t 20 yard I had to put a sight on it as It about shoots a slug at 20 yards. I kind of like looking down a rib and a bead. We all evolve as hunters i needed to be able to kill birds at 65 plus yards.. now i like them at 20 with a single shot 12 nef with number 6 pheasant loads( lot cheaper than turkey loads and very effective)

[dbHunterNY]

Try Winchester xrs if your looking to tighten the pattern.  That’s a 22$ box of 10 fix.  IMO try 5’s.  What tube you have ? The answer to your question is “ you’re fine “ with your pattern currently. I’m always tinkering with different loads. It’s a hobby. Winchester xrs in my gun and choke are too tight. I drew a 10” circle around a black dot and shot from 65 yards.  92 in that circle. And it blew over the sheet of plywood behind the cardboard with some energy. I don’t need a gun that shoots that far. If he isn’t inside 40 yards I didn’t “ fool him “ 

That black shell is actually a Winchester long beard XR 3" #6. In fairness I didn't put it on patterning board. It may have slightly different POI. Figured I'd try it anyway. I bought a couple boxes to try. Couldn't justify fed tss #9 expensive and technically not legal.

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[dbHunterNY]

I have no idea how to answer this because no one uses tin cans as a measurement for pattering a gun.  I don’t intend that to be taken as mean, I just have no way of comparing it. 
I have seen and had loads that leave holes in the pattern and be uneven. 
Didnt you say you shoot 3.5’s because they don’t make 4’s? Why do that if it’s not needed either? 

I was kinda kidding with the 4" statement. I patterned the 3.5" before on large paper with 10" circle. Don't remember what the percentage of 366 pellets was in there. I remember it being even enough but signs it was a maybe blown a little.

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[DirtTime]

6 hours ago, Doewhacker said:

Separate topic but check out shimming a shot gun stock. It helps center everything up so you don’t have to hold the bead high or low etc. 

So, I looked this up. Seems it's more geared at wing shooting then shooting a turkey on the ground. I will still have to pattern and make adjustments.

 

db, again, if your system works, then don't change it. 

[Doewhacker]

6 hours ago, Rob... said:

So, I looked this up. Seems it's more geared at wing shooting then shooting a turkey on the ground. I will still have to pattern and make adjustments.

 

db, again, if your system works, then don't change it. 

Still pattern yes but most likely the pattern would hit where you aim. It straightens the line of sight to the front bead. I use a screw on system to make sure things are centered on a coupe of guns. 

https://www.cabelas.com/product/Dead-Ringer-Beard-Buster-Sight/1575691.uts?productVariantId=3440252&WT.tsrc=PPC&WT.mc_id=GoogleProductAds&WT.z_mc_id1=03636515&rid=20&ds_rl=1252079&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjY2AibDp2gIVRAeGCh3JkQxQEAQYASABEgLRx_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

[Uncle Nicky]

In my opinion, if you are keeping your shots withing 45 yards, the pattern you have is acceptable (with the Hevi Shot).

It all comes down to a matter of choice, and how much time & money a person wants to spend to get a tighter pattern. I believe all shotguns/chokes/shells shoot differently, and it can cost a small fortune and abuse to your shoulder tweeking your gun, to find the holy grail pattern.

I know a lot of people frown on it, but I am confident on taking a 50+ yard shot with my spring turkey gun, if I feel the urge. But I set it up 10 years ago, and have no desire to get the pattern any tighter. I blew enough cash on chokes & shells, if I miss I know it's the Indian, not the arrow.

[dbHunterNY]

i think my struggle is i'm an engineer, i'm curious, and like to tinker.  turkey loads are expensive to test, i have probably just over half a dozen different kinds in the safe now without making much effort. just chewing on the idea to pursue trying other chokes or shells out any further. i don't think i'm necessarily looking to get tighter or "better" in any specific way. just open and curious to see what it brings. i understand it was subjective opinions but i suppose i wasn't expecting such poor feedback which lit my curiosity. i've also been contemplating if a turkey barrel needs to be 22+".  Carlson makes a chrome lined 18.5" barrel for my gun. I doubt it'd lose enough velocity to matter but i bet it'd handle nice in a thick hedgerow waiting for birds to strut on in. i'm not $200 worth of curious though.

[DirtTime]

13 hours ago, Doewhacker said:

Still pattern yes but most likely the pattern would hit where you aim. It straightens the line of sight to the front bead. I use a screw on system to make sure things are centered on a coupe of guns. 

https://www.cabelas.com/product/Dead-Ringer-Beard-Buster-Sight/1575691.uts?productVariantId=3440252&WT.tsrc=PPC&WT.mc_id=GoogleProductAds&WT.z_mc_id1=03636515&rid=20&ds_rl=1252079&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjY2AibDp2gIVRAeGCh3JkQxQEAQYASABEgLRx_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

I may look into this more for next season. Thanks for the info Doewhacker.

[LET EM GROW]

I load TSS now, really only for the fact of trying new things, and actually loading my own shell. Vs just buying a box off the shelf. ITs fun, I am just getting into loading rifle and shotgun shells and to me its just more enjoyable. But I also will load a turkey shell, set it up and use it to its max ability. if i was to load 6s in lead. I want a good evenly spread out pattern at 40, since to me 6s in lead are no good after that. The energy in a 6 lead to me, is not enough to consistently take birds. Load a heavy TSS pellet or a #4 in lead. I want to be able to use it at its maximum range(energy/penetration wise) with a pattern that will make that happen everytime. I have several turkey guns and they are all intended for different ranges/situations.. Depending on if im going with someone, taking someone out or what not.. I just enjoy trying new things every once in awhile. Plus i can tote a super lightweight, non kicking 410 now and take birds that most 12ga can, and cant do..  Just neat lol 

[dbHunterNY]

eventually after i get into reloading for rifles then i might look into shotguns. i've got a 20ga Mossberg setup to kill a turkey under 40 yards with older Rem HD #4's and it's a bit lighter to carry. this was originally intended to be my tinkering gun with bells and whistles. i started doing stuff to it but ran out of time and justification to spend more money.  we'll see. until i'll kill turkeys and call them dead enough. i thought about getting a barrel for my TC Encore ProHunter but they're expensive, it's a single shot, and then i'd need to get more chokes.

[LET EM GROW]

I never thought id enjoy this much, carrying a lighter gun in the field. Never thought much of it. Just a light compact gun when birds are close or even just running and gunning. Its nice to carry less weight. That being said, I want to see which 20 I like better, my Moss MAverick or the 870 20.. Then ill either deck them out for turkey, or pick up another 20 ga and sell one. I know how you feel though. But now that i started loading these shells, and i did everything by hand, weighed each powder, buffer and shot charge individually, i really enjoy this new adventure or whatever it is.. Kinda cool mixing it up some. Especially knowing small bore guns can kill as dead as big bores.. 

[turkeyfeathers]

Ever consider a youth 20? Guys on old gobbler tote them. Love carrying my daughters.  

[Doewhacker]

1 hour ago, turkeyfeathers said:

Ever consider a youth 20? Guys on old gobbler tote them. Love carrying my daughters.  

I use my over under 20 sometimes, nice lite gun.  Fun too