What's Wrong with Shooting Young Bucks?

[Doc]

This guy is right on the money. People get some real peculiar ideas about what they are doing out there. Some picture themselves as the harvest police who have been appointed the duties of keeping hunters to some kind of mandatory standard of kill-size.

Probably a lot of you are not old enough to remember the prejudice against shooting does. Most hunters considered that to be an ethical failure for hunters to shoot does. And yet, decades later we found that shooting does is a necessary management activity but still even today you will find some that consider taking a doe to be something akin to a sin.

But today the big sin is taking a small buck. The word is that anyone who does so should be banned from the woods. All I can say is try hard not to be telling others what deer they can shoot and which ones they cannot. Accept that it's not your place to dictate what others choose to take. It is a very personal decision unique to each individual hunter and is really nobody else's business. Seriously.....It's nobody else's business. It is no one's duty to apply mocking ridicule or anger to someone else's kill when it doesn't measure up to your arbitrary standard. Save your indignation for those who engage in illegal hunting activities and offer a hand of congratulations to the hunter who is happy with what he legally got. I think we will keep a lot more hunters in our ranks if we stop mocking those that are not so hung up on scores, and antler points, and some mythical standard of deer size.

[moog5050]

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

This guy is right on the money. People get some real peculiar ideas about what they are doing out there. Some picture themselves as the harvest police who have been appointed the duties of keeping hunters to some kind of mandatory standard of kill-size.

Probably a lot of you are not old enough to remember the prejudice against shooting does. Most hunters considered that to be an ethical failure for hunters to shoot does. And yet, decades later we found that shooting does is a necessary management activity but still even today you will find some that consider taking a doe to be something akin to a sin.

But today the big sin is taking a small buck. The word is that anyone who does so should be banned from the woods. All I can say is try hard not to be telling others what deer they can shoot and which ones they cannot. Accept that it's not your place to dictate what others choose to take. It is a very personal decision unique to each individual hunter and is really nobody else's business. Seriously.....It's nobody else's business. It is no one's duty to apply mocking ridicule or anger to someone else's kill when it doesn't measure up to your arbitrary standard. Save your indignation for those who engage in illegal hunting activities and offer a hand of congratulations to the hunter who is happy with what he legally got. I think we will keep a lot more hunters in our ranks if we stop mocking those that are not so hung up on scores, and antler points, and some mythical standard of deer size.

Agreed and the same holds true for the implement they choose to use.  lol

[Five Seasons]

23 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

Agreed and the same holds true for the implement they choose to use.  lol

hey now. we were all holding hands and you had to go and ruin it 

[moog5050]

Just now, Belo said:

hey now. we were all holding hands and you had to go and ruin it 

lol - it just reminded me of some alanis morrisette song

[crappyice]

lol - it just reminded me of some alanis morrisette song

The great irony of that song is that none of those examples in the song were ironic.


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[farmhunter]

Yeah I'm not agreeing with you all.  If glad to shoot a young buck - then why not shoot a young (or old) doe instead for the freezer?  Maybe some parts of NY still have doe restrictions - but not most I'd say,   I think there is still the "I got my buck" attitude/culture out there.  I remember it - I was part of it.  I think that as a hunter, there is great satisfaction to setting a "lofty" goal, and obtaining it.  If the goal is any buck - well, I don't think that is very lofty.   Just saying, elevating ones standards, doesn't make one a trophy hunter.  For me, unless you only plan to hunt a time or two a year - then you can raise your standards, and still have a reasonable chance at a buck.  For some it might be 3 on a side or  "no Spikes".  I'll say it again, a different way,  its the goal setting and accomplishment that keep hunters interested and coming back.  

 

[nyslowhand]

With all respect to those that do, I just don't get the expectations or standards applied to deer hunting. If you have these, are they carried from opening day thru the last day of the season? Possibly just my old fart thought process, but simply getting out hunting, enjoying nature, hopefully seeing deer and having an exciting encounter with (any) buck being a plus! I go into every hunting season with no expectations, goals or anything to prove to myself or others!!! This is part of my (lack of better word>) hunting ethics and I'd never attempt to impose this on another hunter. Hunt how you want, shoot what makes you happy and use whatever weapon you prefer. Makes NO difference to me even if you hunt with me or on an adjacent property.

[greensider]

What if you're in a low numbers area and don't see a doe should you go without meat because others don't think you should have the right to shoot a young buck

[GreeneHunter]

1 hour ago, greensider said:

What if you're in a low numbers area and don't see a doe should you go without meat because others don't think you should have the right to shoot a young buck

What others think means Zip , Nothing ... shoot to kill .... Period !

[Doc]

On ‎4‎/‎1‎/‎2019 at 3:27 PM, moog5050 said:

Agreed and the same holds true for the implement they choose to use.  lol

Ha-ha-ha...... you're right. I could care less what they shoot their deer with. I would shake hands and congratulate anyone who successfully takes a deer of any size, regardless of what implement they do it with as long as it is all legal and in season. Of course what is legal and what season certain implements are legal for use, is still being determined isn't it?

[Savagehunter]

Hunting is a personal  experience that really can’t be measured because there are so many intangibles involved. It is perhaps why it’s the king of sports. There are many things that go into a hunt that can’t be weighed or measured. How do you talley  the hard work,difficulty, or skill it took on any given hunt?How do you rate the memories and bonds forged in the woods? You simply can’t ! Sometimes the best hunts end with nothing on the table

Edited April 3, 2019 by Savagehunter

[Doc]

The most prized rack on my wall is that of a 7" spike buck. It draws a lot of comments ..... ha-ha-ha. It was my first bow killed deer. For me it is always about the story behind the mount, and that often has nothing at all to do with antler size. Back then, any deer taken with a bow was a trophy and that one is still a trophy to me.

[Five Seasons]

6 hours ago, nyslowhand said:

With all respect to those that do, I just don't get the expectations or standards applied to deer hunting. If you have these, are they carried from opening day thru the last day of the season? Possibly just my old fart thought process, but simply getting out hunting, enjoying nature, hopefully seeing deer and having an exciting encounter with (any) buck being a plus! I go into every hunting season with no expectations, goals or anything to prove to myself or others!!! This is part of my (lack of better word>) hunting ethics and I'd never attempt to impose this on another hunter. Hunt how you want, shoot what makes you happy and use whatever weapon you prefer. Makes NO difference to me even if you hunt with me or on an adjacent property.

I think it can be both. I have goals for everything in life. Some I slave after and others are just a target. Ones goal can be "get into the woods and just be happy to see deer". So I can have a goal of a 3.5 with a desire to at least shoot a 2.5 and an expectation to at lest put 2 deer in the freezer. If I fail on the first 2, I'm still good. If I fail on the last I'm pretty bummed. 

[Five Seasons]

23 minutes ago, Savagehunter said:

Hunting is a personal  experience that really can’t be measured because there are so many intangibles involved. It is perhaps why it’s the king of sports. There are many things that go into a hunt that can’t be weighed or measured. How do you talley  the hard work,difficulty, or skill it took on any given hunt?How do you rate the memories and bonds forged in the woods? You simply can’t ! Sometimes the best hunts end with nothing on the table

you make an excellent point. Society strives after measuring success. I doubt there's a member on this board with a job who isn't measured against some set of standards. Hell even our spouses do it to us lol. So it's natural that hunters started scoring racks and talking more about age and difficulty. It's a "sport" so there has to be a measurement on who is the MJ of hunting. And as most of us agree, that is impossible to do for hunting and what makes it so great. We started to lose our way with this and I think it's coming back around a little with the farm to table movement. 

[dbHunterNY]

it's ridiculous how twisted together two very different things that are "trophy management" and "quality deer management" have gotten.  i honestly hate discussions like this, for that reason.  meanwhile, efforts educating people on QDM or just whats good for deer and hunting gets bastardized because someone is associating it with something else, making assumptions, and drawing false conclusions. then everyone everyone's throws they're hands up and says just shoot what you want and be happy. not exactly a good solution when it comes to sustainability for a thriving deer population.
i truely believe there's absolutely nothing wrong with shooting a small, young, or yearling buck.  i don't care really what you shoot and what you shoot it with. if it's legal, it's playing fair with others and nothing gets out of hand.  i won't trash anyone's yearling or young buck and certainly not a subjectively small antlered buck. matter of fact, if a new or young hunter gets a opportunity to take one i'd encourage it. same goes with a hunter that hasn't taken a buck in a long time.
lines are a little blurred though when considering what should happen.  hunters should know that there has to be a sufficient buck population to have a sustainable and thriving deer herd with hunting to match. that means that seasoned hunters should be making an honest effort to pass yearling bucks.  if they don't, they have no reason to complain about ANYTHING having to do with how poor the deer numbers, rutting activity, or opportunity is in their area. i won't trash the buck they took but if they b**ch to me about the situation, they're getting constructive responses back.  despite respectful and excepting of their deer, they still usually don't like the feedback. lines are more blurred when not considering areas within NY sustain vastly different populations from either other. out this way, even in managed habitat, we could take 13 doe per square mile as some areas routinely do and we'd have nothing for deer left. similar situation for bucks. just a couple yearling bucks taken in some areas has much more of an effect on hunter observation and opportunity than it would for other areas.
when having these conversations it's important to be able to separate what's basic good practice, what's simply competitive with no ill intent, and what's being a dick with higher standards going above and beyond what's not to be expected of others. i look at hunting as a tradition and necessary act for conservation. i don't look at it as a sport, despite it can be rather sporting and certainly requires skill. If times where truly hard, like apocalyptic movie hard, hunting might be considered as a right. here in NY right now i don't considered it a right and definitely a privilege.

[Fletch]

I almost think it is becoming two different things

A sport for some folks to go after the challenge of a big rack or for a few a 200 pounder, some for the glory and some for there own self measuring. And it is kind of a competition to these folks. 

And for others its not a sport but a way of life. More about the experience and the sustenance. If I could not eat it I pretty much would not hunt. I am not really into catch and release either. I fish for fish I like to eat and are fun to catch. I do not like my hunting to be referred to as a sport. I am not competing against anyone or recording a score like golf or bowling.

 

I am not saying either is wrong. I don't understand the first as much because I am the second. But I am not against it except for the fact that the general public are pretty favorable for sustenance hunting not trophy hunting. 

[phade]

Is it OK to be disappointed with a deer you shot?

[greensider]

I have shot a couple little ones late season say last day of muzzloader season and although I wished they were bigger its meat for my freezer  and that's my goal to not have to buy 6 dollar a pound steroid beef

[Hunter007]

A better question would be why shoot a young buck on the first  day of deer season . I don't really care what guys shoot but why shot a young one on the very first day when you still have time to see something bigger .

 

 

Edited April 3, 2019 by Storm914

[greensider]

What if someone only had a day or two to hunt 

[crappyice]

What if someone only had a day or two to hunt 

They have to make sure it’s okay with someone else first to use their tag! Duh!


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[Four Season Whitetail's]

I almost think it is becoming two different things
A sport for some folks to go after the challenge of a big rack or for a few a 200 pounder, some for the glory and some for there own self measuring. And it is kind of a competition to these folks. 
And for others its not a sport but a way of life. More about the experience and the sustenance. If I could not eat it I pretty much would not hunt. I am not really into catch and release either. I fish for fish I like to eat and are fun to catch. I do not like my hunting to be referred to as a sport. I am not competing against anyone or recording a score like golf or bowling.
 
I am not saying either is wrong. I don't understand the first as much because I am the second. But I am not against it except for the fact that the general public are pretty favorable for sustenance hunting not trophy hunting. 

For some of us we like to keep and use the word hunt in hunting. We find a buck or two and hunt for them. They are always of a certain size and nothing less will do. We may take a different buck we did not plan on but it will be of the same size or bigger. Is that really called Trophy Hunting.. Or setting a standard? We still get to enjoy every other aspect of the hunt that everyone else does we just make it a little harder and actually make it so some skill and knowledge is involved. In most parts of the state it does not take much of a "Hunt" just to kill a yearling buck or a doe. The word Hunting can be thought of and used in many different ways by hunters and none of them would be wrong. Just Different.


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[phade]

11 hours ago, Four Season Whitetail's said:

For some of us we like to keep and use the word hunt in hunting. We find a buck or two and hunt for them. They are always of a certain size and nothing less will do. We may take a different buck we did not plan on but it will be of the same size or bigger. Is that really called Trophy Hunting.. Or setting a standard? We still get to enjoy every other aspect of the hunt that everyone else does we just make it a little harder and actually make it so some skill and knowledge is involved. In most parts of the state it does not take much of a "Hunt" just to kill a yearling buck or a doe. The word Hunting can be thought of and used in many different ways by hunters and none of them would be wrong. Just Different.


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Who stole your account?

[Five Seasons]

15 hours ago, phade said:

Is it OK to be disappointed with a deer you shot?

I don't know if i've ever been truly upset about a deer I shot, if anything i've been upset with myself for a bad shot or decision. I think it's ok to be a little let down that you took a smaller deer than you would have liked. Nothing wrong with feeling the way you do as long as the meat doesn't go to waste. 

14 hours ago, Storm914 said:

A better question would be why shoot a young buck on the first  day of deer season . I don't really care what guys shoot but why shot a young one on the very first day when you still have time to see something bigger .

 

 

this is where the lines get blurry, because I would agree that if you know you have a long season and have every intention of a lot of hunting and you have a feel for the kind of deer your property holds, you really should try and hold out. If not for anything, but for an excuse for more woods time. But all those variables need to be in play. For some hunters and properties that's a shot you don't pass up despite the time of year.

One of my top 5 came the second day i was in the archery woods. He was a nice 8 and I knew that I might not get another opportunity at a buck like him so I took it. Conversely, the year my oldest was born I knew my woods time was going to be limited and I shot a small 5 early on despite knowing bigger deer were around. Heck, 30 seconds after I flung an arrow at the 5 a decent 8 came up right behind him for a shot broadside at 10 yards. That's hunting lol.

[steve863]

34 minutes ago, phade said:

Who stole your account?

LOL!!   Either someone stole his account or hell is about to freeze over!!  

I think Wolc got him to read the "good" book.