What's the least powerful legal caliber you ever shot a deer with .

[WNY Bowhunter]

6 hours ago, grampy said:

Wow, I'm surprised. Any deer I've shot with the Nosler BT's, 7mm-08 and 270, it was like a grenade in the vitals. Even destroyed both shoulders on one. And rarely get an exit wound, even at 50 yards, as all the energy is absorbed by the deer and it's lights out.

Also my .308 bullet of choice!!! I've used the Nosler 165 grain BTs for the past 6 or 7 seasons. Way better than the hornady SSTs that I used previously.

[Pygmy]

48 minutes ago, WNY Bowhunter said:

Also my .308 bullet of choice!!! I've used the Nosler 165 grain BTs for the past 6 or 7 seasons. Way better than the hornady SSTs that I used previously.

They are also the first bullet I'll try  for accuracy...Tough to find a more accurate hunting bullet in many rifles...

[ATbuckhunter]

6 hours ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

Remington Core Lokt 150grn

Thats crazy, usually they got too much expansion. 

[DanD]

5 hours ago, Pygmy said:

I have probably killed more animals with the Nosler BT , mostly 140 grain in my .280 Rem, than any other single bullet...

LACK of exspansion has never been an issue. I have however, usually had an exit on a broadside lung shot on deer...On slightly bigger critters like caribou, the remains of the bullet would be under the hide on the off side...Usually the bullet jacket and not much more..

I thought you shot Barnes TTSX bullets? Why the change?

[DanD]

1 hour ago, WNY Bowhunter said:

Also my .308 bullet of choice!!! I've used the Nosler 165 grain BTs for the past 6 or 7 seasons. Way better than the hornady SSTs that I used previously.

I know several guys that swear by the SSTs. I saw them on sale last year so I bought 2 boxes. I can't get them to group better than 2 MOA in my 7mm-08 Browning  . For some reason that gun favors Nosler BT regardless of bullet weight (120s or 140s). 

[Pygmy]

24 minutes ago, DanD said:

I thought you shot Barnes TTSX bullets? Why the change?

It wasn't for any lack of performance by the Nosler BTs...

A lot of guys on the forum I was hanging out on at the time were singing the praises of the Barnes 120 grain TSX in the 7MM08... Just for shits and giggles, I tried them, and loved the results....I just stuck with them in my 7MM08 and eventually tried them in my .280 and my 9.3 x 62, with equally pleasing results...I can't say they kill any better than the Nosler BTs, because dead is dead...I'll say that in my rifles they are as accurate, kill equally as well and probably do less meat damage than the Noslers...

That said...I could switch back to the Noslers tomorrow and probably never see any difference as far as meat on the ground...

[Elmo]

I shot one with a menacing stare.  I never did recover.

[Pygmy]

That reminds me of a story...

I was out squirrel hunting years ago and I ran into a guy in the woods with a whole sack full of squirrels and NO GUN...

When I got up close to him, I realized he was the UGLIEST person I had ever seen..Downright PAINFUL to look at....

I couldn't resist asking him how he got all those squirrels with no weapon..

He told me  "  I just UGLY them to death...I sneak up real close, and when they see my face they just drop over dead"...

I asked him   " Does anyone else in your family have this talent ?"

He told me.. " I took my wife hunting a couple of times, but I had to quit taking her...She tears 'em up too bad.."....

[Steve D]

On ‎6‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 8:26 AM, dbHunterNY said:

i've wondered if it's hold together well enough for a deer. i use that round on woodchucks ever summer. seems it'd be behind the shoulder double lung or heart shot

That is almost always the shot I try to take regardless of what I am  shooting. The draw back to them is if they hit something along the way they tend to break up and won't make it to the target. I always shoot for the lungs and or heart to get a clean kill with less or no meat loss. Bow, shotgun, or rifle, I shoot for the same spot.

[Pygmy]

4 hours ago, Steve D said:

That is almost always the shot I try to take regardless of what I am  shooting. The draw back to them is if they hit something along the way they tend to break up and won't make it to the target. I always shoot for the lungs and or heart to get a clean kill with less or no meat loss. Bow, shotgun, or rifle, I shoot for the same spot.

I am a great believer in the old axiom " If it works, don't fix it"....

I have no issue with hunting deer with a .223, as long as you place the bullets where they belong...

However, it puzzles me why anyone would choose a bullet expressly designed  as a highly frangible projectile  for varmints ( that's what the V in VMax stands for) when there are many  other  more stoutly constructed bullets available  for the .223..

It might make the difference in a clean kill animal   vs a wounded animal should you just be a little off and hit a shoulder blade..

[LET EM GROW]

Ive never gone to the woods "underpowered" Chasing big bodied deer, Id rather have the extra thump on hand. 7mm-08, 30-06 12 ga or the 50ML are my go to for deer season. But I really want to try out the 22-250 or the 22 Nosler this year with nuisance permits.. Everyone I talk to that have hunted with the 22-250 has dropped deer right in their tracks. as long as they are double lung hits. My buddy dropped a big buck in its tracks last year, with a double lung hit at just under 300 yards. Not sure of the bullet choice but i believe it was 62 or 64gr.   

[LET EM GROW]

4 hours ago, Pygmy said:

I am a great believer in the old axiom " If it works, don't fix it"....

I have no issue with hunting deer with a .223, as long as you place the bullets where they belong...

However, it puzzles me why anyone would choose a bullet expressly designed  as a highly frangible projectile  for varmints ( that's what the V in VMax stands for) when there are many  other  more stoutly constructed bullets available  for the .223..

It might make the difference in a clean kill animal   vs a wounded animal should you just be a little off and hit a shoulder blade..

what bullet and gr weight do you use for your 223? 

[Pygmy]

49 minutes ago, LET EM GROW said:

what bullet and gr weight do you use for your 223? 

I don't hunt deer with a .223, but I wouldn't hesitate if it was all I had...I would, however use a more stoutly constructed bullet  in 55 or 60 grains, like a Nosler partition or a Barnes X type... .22 centerfires are quite popular for deer for in some areas of the country, and  there are bullets for them designed specifically for hunting deer sized game...

[Culvercreek hunt club]

On 6/17/2019 at 5:51 PM, wolc123 said:

I have not hunted with a vertical bow, since the crossbow was legalized, but that is another subject for another thread.    Bows (vertical or crossbow) kill by "cutting", not "shock" like guns do, so their effectiveness is much less dependent on "power".  That is why it would be best to start a new thread if you want to discuss that.        

His point is valid to your comment on THIS topic though. If your comment was valid about it not being "dumb" to "drop down" then there would be a lot of dumb folks in the country. Folks are dumb to use traditional archery equipment when a compound or crossbow is legal to use. Folks are dumb to use a pistol when a shotgun or rifle is legal to use. The list goes on and on and a big part of why a lot of people hut is becasue of the challenge of it. 

Edited June 19, 2019 by Culvercreek hunt club

[wolc123]

3 hours ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

His point is valid to your comment on THIS topic though. If your comment was valid about it not being "dumb" to "drop down" then there would be a lot of dumb folks in the country. Folks are dumb to use traditional archery equipment when a compound or crossbow is legal to use. Folks are dumb to use a pistol when a shotgun or rifle is legal to use. The list goes on and on and a big part of why a lot of people hut is becasue of the challenge of it. 

It all comes down to if you are a born "fighter" or a born "killer".   One way to tell these types apart is  by watching them fish.  The fighters are into "catch and release", which I consider to be mostly just "senseless maiming" of a fine food source.  Sort of a waste, similar to blooding up a bunch of venison and making it un-edible, by hitting it with a high-velocity, light weight bullet.   The fighters thrive on challenge and competition, while the killers seek to minimize each, seeking only a fast, clean kill with minimal wasted meat.    The good news is, here in NY we have plenty of game and fish for both types.     

The main sticking point on the whole deal for me is I don't like the idea of using living animals to "challenge" myself.  I do like to cook and eat them.  I don't mind others wanting to challenge themselves, and I recognize that the "fighters"  are in the clear majority, probably outnumbering "killers" by about 4:1.  I don't think they are "dumb", just "different".   For me, it would be dumb to use a smaller caliber bullet because it usually ruins more meat and it is almost ALL about the meat for me.  Hunting with a compound bow was too challenging for me and I am very thankful that my days of using it are over. I don't know of any weapon much better for efficient killing, with minimal meat loss, on a whitetail deer than a crossbow.   

If we were all "born killers", it would be a lot harder to live off the fat of the land, getting almost all of the protein your family needs from wild game, as is it is relatively easy to do these days (thanks in part to 17 legal days for crossbow before guns open in NY).  That makes me very thankful for all the "fighters" out there.       

Edited June 19, 2019 by wolc123

[Culvercreek hunt club]

30 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

It all comes down to if you are a born "fighter" or a born "killer".   One way to tell these types apart is  by watching them fish.  The fighters are into "catch and release", which I consider to be mostly just "senseless maiming" of a fine food source.  Sort of a waste, similar to blooding up a bunch of venison and making it un-edible, by hitting it with a high-velocity, light weight bullet.   The fighters thrive on challenge and competition, while the killers seek to minimize each, seeking only a fast, clean kill with minimal wasted meat.    The good news is, here in NY we have plenty of game and fish for both types.     

The main sticking point on the whole deal for me is I don't like the idea of using living animals to "challenge" myself.  I do like to cook and eat them.  I don't mind others wanting to challenge themselves, and I recognize that the "fighters"  are in the clear majority, probably outnumbering "killers" by about 4:1.  I don't think they are "dumb", just "different".   For me, it would be dumb to use a smaller caliber bullet because it usually ruins more meat and it is almost ALL about the meat for me.  Hunting with a compound bow was too challenging for me and I am very thankful that my days of using it are over. I don't know of any weapon much better for efficient killing, with minimal meat loss, on a whitetail deer than a crossbow.   

If we were all "born killers", it would be a lot harder to live off the fat of the land, getting almost all of the protein your family needs from wild game, as is it is relatively easy to do these days (thanks in part to 17 legal days for crossbow before guns open in NY).  That makes me very thankful for all the "fighters" out there.       

We've heard the stories about your buddy with the 243 and you keep saying that the slower heavier bullets are better for not damaging meat. I want to make two suggestions for you and him. You may want to look into either or both and adopt them. Like I said in an earlier post, I've shot nuisance deer with a 22-250. Quite a few of them actually. There was no meat damage. I have also seen deer taken with your favorite caliber 30-06 that were absolutely destroyed. One of the biggest and slowest  rounds I have hunted and grew up around could devastate the meat on a deer. an old 12 gauge foster slug. You know what all those had in common that actually caused the meat damage. A bad impact location or piss poor bullet selection. If you make good choices on both of those you will minimize any damage. So I would suggest doing a little homework and learning about ballistics / bullet construction and I'd spend some extra time at the range. Whether it is a recurve, crossbow, a .223 or a 45-70 I find the weakest link and the cause of the issues with lost deer and meat damage is the person that lets the projectile go. 

[BizCT]

On 6/17/2019 at 6:55 PM, Hawk914 said:

The only small caliber rifle that I shot a deer with was a 257 weatherby magnum  using a 120 gr partion bullet shot doe at 50 yards  from front in chest  wound Channel size of a fist almost all the way through deer  Dropped  all most immediately. 

 

257 may be small. but weatherby mag's pack a punch. that bullet is flying faster/flatter than many bigger calibers. 

[BizCT]

 

I shot this fawn with a .22 pistol (after I released him out of my hand)

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

[Hunter007]

21 minutes ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

257 may be small. but weatherby mag's pack a punch. that bullet is flying faster/flatter than many bigger calibers. 

Yep

[wolc123]

48 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

We've heard the stories about your buddy with the 243 and you keep saying that the slower heavier bullets are better for not damaging meat. I want to make two suggestions for you and him. You may want to look into either or both and adopt them. Like I said in an earlier post, I've shot nuisance deer with a 22-250. Quite a few of them actually. There was no meat damage. I have also seen deer taken with your favorite caliber 30-06 that were absolutely destroyed. One of the biggest and slowest  rounds I have hunted and grew up around could devastate the meat on a deer. an old 12 gauge foster slug. You know what all those had in common that actually caused the meat damage. A bad impact location or piss poor bullet selection. If you make good choices on both of those you will minimize any damage. So I would suggest doing a little homework and learning about ballistics / bullet construction and I'd spend some extra time at the range. Whether it is a recurve, crossbow, a .223 or a 45-70 I find the weakest link and the cause of the issues with lost deer and meat damage is the person that lets the projectile go. 

There are many who consider a shoulder shot a good one, and it don't matter much what the bullet is if it hits there, the odds of an exit are low.  I normally prefer a behind the shoulder shot, unless it is on a doe with a "group".  In that situation, the anchoring shoulder blade shot has led to a few  "doubles" for me.   The heavier and slower the bullet, the less the meat damage from that hit.  

Would you consider yourself a "killer" of a "fighter" ?   You make some valid points and I agree on the range time which is why I try and get in several thousand "practice" shots on targets between seasons.  I hope you have a great season this year and thanks for all you do with the Field to Fork program.   

[airedale]

58 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I find the weakest link and the cause of the issues with lost deer and meat damage is the person that lets the projectile go. 

What he said!

[NFA-ADK]

With the 44 Mag I usually have no exit wound.  In so far as using a lower caliber to hunt with I do not think I would use anything less than that for deer and recommend higher calibers for most hunters. Simply put its effectiveness is limited even in a rifle. 

Most game lost is not due to caliber and more to an improperly placed shot regardless of why.  This is why practicing with your weapon is more important than the actual caliber used.  More deer are lost due to shot placement vs caliber used. 

[rob-c]

The right bullet with the proper amount of practice, will kill any animal with any caliber. 

[MPHunter]

12GA sabot slug. All but one were broadside, behind shoulder shots. Most have dropped right there. None have run more than 40 yards. I have hunted with a 7mm-08 the last two seasons. Have not had the opportunity at a buck yet with it though.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

45 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

Would you consider yourself a "killer" of a "fighter" ?   You make some valid points and I agree on the range time which is why I try and get in several thousand "practice" shots on targets between seasons.  I hope you have a great season this year and thanks for all you do with the Field to Fork program.   

I'm not really either I guess. I'd consider myself a hunter. Love the venison and really like doing things like making our own sausage to enjoy. But I enjoy the challenge of the process. (not just the hunt). I enjoy the satisfaction of practicing with an implement and trying to master it. (or get as good as I can get...lol). That is one reason I do things like getting into reloading, bought a crossbow and will be hunting this year with a recurve during archery. It's why I went to an Encore platform for some of my hunting. (I know Pygmy....so sorry about carrying that ugly gun). I practice to understand my limitation with each weapon. That way I can make the most humane kill I can. Bad decisions and pushing beyond ones skill set it a huge contributing factor of some of the horror stories we all hear during the season.  

Thanks for the acknowledgment on the F2F program. We are excited to get it rolling again this year. We have picked up some new mentors becasue of what they saw in the program and wanted to be a part of it. With more mentors we are upping the class size and right now we have 7 confirmed that are going to participate.