Flehmening

[Buckstopshere]

Got this buck this morning on cam, flehming...giving the flehmen response behind a doe. The last three frames (5 seconds between frames)  show the buck standing and not moving, except with its mouth, testing the pheromones of the doe. Good sign that this doe is nearing estrus, as predicted, so we should see some rutting action next week under the full moon. Big bucks moving in the daytime! 

[ny hunter]

Nice deer...Good luck..

[Einsamer Krieger]

The best of luck

[Steuben Jerry]

Good luck Oak!

[grampy]

It's not too unusual to have a mature doe or two cycle early, before the majority of doe each year.  This can lead to a trail of many bucks following her. And a great opportunity for any hunter, who is lucky enough to be close by! And it doesn't last but a couple of days. 

Moon phase doesn't really trigger estrous in the doe. That is my belief.  As the main breeding period happens at the same time each year. Regardless of moon phase.

[Buckstopshere]

42 minutes ago, grampy said:

It's not too unusual to have a mature doe or two cycle early, before the majority of doe each year.  This can lead to a trail of many bucks following her. And a great opportunity for any hunter, who is lucky enough to be close by! And it doesn't last but a couple of days. 

Moon phase doesn't really trigger estrous in the doe. That is my belief.  As the main breeding period happens at the same time each year. Regardless of moon phase.

I've discovered that there are three main peaks of the rut that vary in intensity and timing each year that correlate with the moon. Some years we have an early main peak (like last year and 2017) and other years a later main peak, with about a three-week swing...from the end of October to late November.  This year we will experience a good old-fashioned peak in mid-November, just like we did in those years when the the moon was in the same cycle as this year. Moonlight (reflected sunlight) adds to the overall photoperiodic effect that stimulates the pineal gland.  Next week will be the first minor peak of breeding and next month, during our last week of bow season, it should be a smoking hot rut!

[nyslowhand]

 

12 hours ago, Buckstopshere said:

...... Moonlight (reflected sunlight) adds to the overall photoperiodic effect that stimulates the pineal gland....

First time I've heard you use the Rutting Moon and photo-periodic effects in the same discussion. New hybrid rut initiation theory? Please explain, I just don't get it!!?!! Not challenging your opinion or thinking, I just want to understand it! SO... As lessening sunlight (shorted daylight hours) at some point triggers the glands, blah, blah & encourages the urge to breed, how is added indirect sunlight from a full moon enhancing this??? I'm no expert, this just seems to be a contradiction & hard for me to fathom.

[nybuckboy]

I saw a 6 pt dogging a doe last night cross the road in front of me about 10pm.

[Robhuntandfish]

On 10/8/2019 at 10:12 PM, Buckstopshere said:

Got this buck this morning on cam, flehming...giving the flehmen response behind a doe. The last three frames (5 seconds between frames)  show the buck standing and not moving, except with its mouth, testing the pheromones of the doe. Good sign that this doe is nearing estrus, as predicted, so we should see some rutting action next week under the full moon. Big bucks moving in the daytime! 

I thought that was called Pygmying......

[Pygmy]

27 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

I thought that was called Pygmying......

I was just going to say...He reminds me of MYSELF when I was younger....

Only I called it TROLLING..

Edited October 10, 2019 by Pygmy

[Buckstopshere]

10 hours ago, nyslowhand said:

 

First time I've heard you use the Rutting Moon and photo-periodic effects in the same discussion. New hybrid rut initiation theory? Please explain, I just don't get it!!?!! Not challenging your opinion or thinking, I just want to understand it! SO... As lessening sunlight (shorted daylight hours) at some point triggers the glands, blah, blah & encourages the urge to breed, how is added indirect sunlight from a full moon enhancing this??? I'm no expert, this just seems to be a contradiction & hard for me to fathom.

I've tried to put photoperiodism as a driving concept in my writings...I know because spell check in my old writing  program does not recognize some of its forms, and it's a pain in the butt to override.  But yes, photoperiodism is the basis of the theory that the moon has an effect on "short day breeders" like deer, sheep, elk, etc. How it works is the light (combined sun and moonlight)  goes through the eye and strikes the pineal gland. The suprachiasmatic nucleus, located there releases melatonin and other hormones/pheromones that prime the breeding biochemical system. As the full moon wanes and the nights darken...the breeding urge increases. It's essentially what sheep breeders do with melatonin implants in ewes so that their stock all cycle at the same time and the lambs are born together. The moon is nature's clockwork so that the  fawns are born at the same time, overwhelming the predators and ensuring the survival of the species. Nature doesn't put all its eggs in one basket so to speak...and there are three flushes of fawns, an early one (does bred in October.) We see them in early gobbler season. The main flood of fawns in late May/early June, and then a few late fawns from a December breeding as proof. I like to say the moon fine-tunes the photoperiodic effect of the sun. Of course there is a lot more to it. For one thing...bucks and does utilize licking branches over scrapes to trade pheromones through saliva to in effect...get on the same page with their biological clocks. We all know what it's like to not be on the same page.   

Edited October 10, 2019 by Buckstopshere

[dbHunterNY]

9 hours ago, nyslowhand said:

 

First time I've heard you use the Rutting Moon and photo-periodic effects in the same discussion. New hybrid rut initiation theory? Please explain, I just don't get it!!?!! Not challenging your opinion or thinking, I just want to understand it! SO... As lessening sunlight (shorted daylight hours) at some point triggers the glands, blah, blah & encourages the urge to breed, how is added indirect sunlight from a full moon enhancing this??? I'm no expert, this just seems to be a contradiction & hard for me to fathom.

 

23 hours ago, grampy said:

It's not too unusual to have a mature doe or two cycle early, before the majority of doe each year.  This can lead to a trail of many bucks following her. And a great opportunity for any hunter, who is lucky enough to be close by! And it doesn't last but a couple of days. 

Moon phase doesn't really trigger estrous in the doe. That is my belief.  As the main breeding period happens at the same time each year. Regardless of moon phase.

This is my take just from my experience. Moon phase seems to have nothing to do with timing of the rut. it can't. For years I hunted based on rutting moon phase calendars that didn't seem to help. Here it seems like the phases of the rut happen around the same time every year within a couple weeks. makes sense as breeding has to happen very close to the same time every year or the fawns would get shorted opportunity getting ready for the winter. nature just doesn't do that. in fairness I do notice activity changes related to moon phase, but that's in relation to doe feeding and indirectly bucks. deer gorge themselves on food, rest, then do it again in cycles day and night to be best off for winter. seems like there's more deer out at night running across roads when i'm not hunting and/or piling in later after last light with me stuck in a stand when there's with a big bright full moon. weather trumps moon phase still. if nasty weather is coming in you'll see feeding right before. if it's prolonged you'll have feeding right after, that has otherwise disrupted this pattern. i could understand decades ago, how a spike in activity could be perceived as the rut kicking in when in reality it already did. today we have trail cameras working 24/7 that'd otherwise show us rutting behavior when we aren't there. behavior we otherwise wouldn't think was taking place.

[chrisw]

My go to strategy that works every year is be in the woods as much as you can! I don't put much thought into moon phases or rut predictions. It seems the rut is always during the first 2 weeks of November, regardless of weather, temperature, moon. Interesting topic but I don't put faith in it.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[BowmanMike]

No matter what phase,you still have to be in the right spot at the right time.

That's mostly luck,or bad luck for me...

[WNYBuckHunter]

On 10/10/2019 at 8:22 AM, nybuckboy said:

I saw a 6 pt dogging a doe last night cross the road in front of me about 10pm.

Young bucks tend to start annoying does earlier than the mature ones. Happens every year. I have tons of trail cam pics of young bucks harassing does, been going on for the last couple of weeks. The mature bucks are not doing it, they have been starting to spar and fight to establish the local hierarchy, lots of pics of that over the last 3 days. Not 1 pic of a mature buck harassing a doe yet. Most likely wont be for another couple of weeks.

[dbHunterNY]

40 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

Young bucks tend to start annoying does earlier than the mature ones. Happens every year. I have tons of trail cam pics of young bucks harassing does, been going on for the last couple of weeks. The mature bucks are not doing it, they have been starting to spar and fight to establish the local hierarchy, lots of pics of that over the last 3 days. Not 1 pic of a mature buck harassing a doe yet. Most likely wont be for another couple of weeks.

people are more focused on sex ratio but in reality buck age structure in a local herd is just as important. you need bucks closer to maturity as feasible to regulate breeding ecology. as you mentioned while the young bucks pointlessly run around long before and after breeding, still not getting attention of doe.  once doe start to come into estrous do to photo period, mature bucks are responding in efficient fashion, and more doe follow suit. it starts a natural chain reaction and the herd involuntarily knows it's that time of the year again.

[DDT]

On 10/10/2019 at 9:54 AM, Buckstopshere said:

I've tried to put photoperiodism as a driving concept in my writings...I know because spell check in my old writing  program does not recognize some of its forms, and it's a pain in the butt to override.  But yes, photoperiodism is the basis of the theory that the moon has an effect on "short day breeders" like deer, sheep, elk, etc. How it works is the light (combined sun and moonlight)  goes through the eye and strikes the pineal gland. The suprachiasmatic nucleus, located there releases melatonin and other hormones/pheromones that prime the breeding biochemical system. As the full moon wanes and the nights darken...the breeding urge increases. It's essentially what sheep breeders do with melatonin implants in ewes so that their stock all cycle at the same time and the lambs are born together. The moon is nature's clockwork so that the  fawns are born at the same time, overwhelming the predators and ensuring the survival of the species. Nature doesn't put all its eggs in one basket so to speak...and there are three flushes of fawns, an early one (does bred in October.) We see them in early gobbler season. The main flood of fawns in late May/early June, and then a few late fawns from a December breeding as proof. I like to say the moon fine-tunes the photoperiodic effect of the sun. Of course there is a lot more to it. For one thing...bucks and does utilize licking branches over scrapes to trade pheromones through saliva to in effect...get on the same page with their biological clocks. We all know what it's like to not be on the same page.   

I'm going with the moon affecting the rut, but it can be overruled by warmer weather as per Charlie Alsheimer. For years I followed Charlie Alsheimer's predictions and they are spot on. His writing is missed. This sums it up...

http://www.charliealsheimer.com/ca/articles/art_understanding.html

The word photoperiodism is a new one for me too. Googled it and am reading up on it.