Contest Shut Down By Antis

[Five Seasons]

6 minutes ago, NFA-ADK said:

To think that we are not capable of removing ANY normal predator is simply moronic.  We have decimated and even removed completely animals from areas when we wanted to and enough people where motivated to help out.  Coyotes are simply a small enough predator that most people are not bothered by them until the pets start to get removed. 

Yes A female will produce more at times when food is good and available but many thing factor into that.  If 30 females are removed from an area the 5 left will no way compensate for what the 35 total would reproduced.  The reduction in adult population would have a much greater affect on local animals than 5 litters of pups. 

i dont think any of them said you can't irradiate them (although I'd point to the pigs down south as an example of just how hard it can be). These aren't big ass slow moving buffalo either btw. The point is that you're not really doing shit by shooting a few during the fall. You really need to spend a lot of time and effort trapping them. Please read the links, they're not even liberal fluff, they're from outdoors and hunting sites. 

[NFA-ADK]

1 minute ago, Belo said:

i dont think any of them said you can't irradiate them (although I'd point to the pigs down south as an example of just how hard it can be). These aren't big ass slow moving buffalo either btw. The point is that you're not really doing shit by shooting a few during the fall. You really need to spend a lot of time and effort trapping them. Please read the links, they're not even liberal fluff, they're from outdoors and hunting sites. 

If pigs where able to kill people and livestock they would be removed all ready like the wolves! 

[left field]

I just happen to be reading The Fair Chase: The Epic Story of Hunting in America and am at the expansion west, the bison slaughter and the grand months-long hunts taken by wealthy Europeans where the goal was numbers. Numbers in the hundreds, if not thousands.

The author argues that, in part, this wholesale slaughter of animals and the public perception of it lead to the formation of the animal welfare movement and the SPCA. Again, perception. 

I can't recommend the book. While it is meticulously researched, it as a little all over the place and I have a feeling ultimately leading to an anti-hunting stance. 

[Jeremy K]

3 minutes ago, NFA-ADK said:

If pigs where able to kill people and livestock they would be removed all ready like the wolves! 

You're crazy if you think the pigs arnt winning , those pigs would be long gone if it was possible . It's estimated that wild hogs cost 1.5 billion dollars a year in damages.

[NFA-ADK]

13 minutes ago, Jeremy K said:

You're crazy if you think the pigs arnt winning , those pigs would be long gone if it was possible . It's estimated that wild hogs cost 1.5 billion dollars a year in damages.

Yes they do much damage but do not kill, if they did we would have removed them long ago.  Are they winning yes, they reproduce like rabbits, lucky for us they do not hunt animals.  Did I say they where loosing in my post above?  They are an issue but not as much to wildlife as they are to live stock and farmers.  

[TreeGuy]

Out of curiosity, which animals have us humans been able to decimate ?

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[phade]

3 hours ago, moog5050 said:

Sorry, not following Brad.  You responded to open request for comments on increasing tourism in Hancock before the whole contest issue came about?

Yes - The mayor publicly put out a request on social media groups asking for creative ways to attract local hunting tourism to the Hancock area about 1-2 months before this coyote hunt became an issue. The mayor wanted to leverage this as much as possible to generate needed revenue. People supplied all kinds of ideas, which included more of these sponsored hunts, marketing, accommodation packages, having the town property be set-up for hunts or food plots, etc. Lots of people supplied ideas and answers, I think mostly because it was a unique and creative ask from a public official. Not very often does an official bring up hunting related topics so it got alot of traction on social media.

Then, this sponsored hunt unrelated to the original request became the target for the anti-campaign. At which point the mayor decided to shut down after yielding to the pressure. It frustrated alot of people given what the mayor set out to do mere weeks prior.

I doubt the mayor knew the campaign was coming at the point they put out the effort to collect revenue generating ideas from hunting activities.

 

[left field]

8 minutes ago, TreeGuy said:

Out of curiosity, which animals have us humans been able to decimate ?
 

Dinosaurs. 

[Robhuntandfish]

10 minutes ago, TreeGuy said:

Out of curiosity, which animals have us humans been able to decimate ?

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i am trying like hell on the walleyes! But every year there seems to be more! 

[moog5050]

12 minutes ago, phade said:

Yes - The mayor publicly put out a request on social media groups asking for creative ways to attract local hunting tourism to the Hancock area about 1-2 months before this coyote hunt became an issue. The mayor wanted to leverage this as much as possible to generate needed revenue. People supplied all kinds of ideas, which included more of these sponsored hunts, marketing, accommodation packages, having the town property be set-up for hunts or food plots, etc. Lots of people supplied ideas and answers, I think mostly because it was a unique and creative ask from a public official. Not very often does an official bring up hunting related topics so it got alot of traction on social media.

Then, this sponsored hunt unrelated to the original request became the target for the anti-campaign. At which point the mayor decided to shut down after yielding to the pressure. It frustrated alot of people given what the mayor set out to do mere weeks prior.

I doubt the mayor knew the campaign was coming at the point they put out the effort to collect revenue generating ideas from hunting activities.

 

Got it.

[TreeGuy]

Passenger Pigeon..

Perfect. We have 1

Bill- thanks.




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[NFA-ADK]

We are the ones over populating and due to our expansion and globalism we have caused havoc on our planet.   Quick google search shows how we have cause animal populations to decrease and vanish in some cases where we where not even trying to remove them, our expansion was enough to remove the habitat and food source for them to survive. 

https://onekindplanet.org/top-10/top-10-worlds-most-endangered-animals/

 

Animals threatened by humans.  

Elephant, whales and fish have all felt our wrath and suffered population declines.  Many are endangered.  Eastern Elk! 

Pretty much every top predator except ones not on land.  Bears, tigers, most big cats, simply put anything that may compete with us for food in any location with a big population of people can decrease and kill habitat they need to survive and if that does not do it we will usually remove them after a few incidents where people get hurt or killed.  We use traps, guns then when all that fails poison. 

Many animal populations are being decimated in Florida due to us bringing in pythons.  Including but not limited to birds, cats, dogs, reptiles, deer and birds. 

We are the biggest issue on the planet and as our population grows our habitat and animals will be removed.  The larger the animal usually the more it will suffer when our population expands even more so if it is a predator.  This is why we have been put under control by what we call REGULATIONS, and the main reason deer are so prevalent and wolves are not. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

25 minutes ago, TreeGuy said:

Perfect. We have 1

Bill- thanks.




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Dodo bird.

Basically anything slow and not very smart with piss poor defenses. Nah never mind, that can't be correct or the libs would have been gone long ago. lol 

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I will throw one fact in. You can all but wipe out a Yote population on property you kill them by any means, At any Date. Proven! You will also see kickback from Anti’s and some hunters until Ny wakes up and makes them the Vermin they are with no limits nor seasons.


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[airedale]

The Heath Hen and the Carolina Parakeet are a couple of more birds that are extinct.

Al

[TreeGuy]

Dodo bird.
Basically anything slow and not very smart with piss poor defenses. Nah never mind, that can't be correct or the libs would have been gone long ago. lol 

At least somebody sees where I was going with my point!


Yotes are an apex predator and said to be the most adaptable animal in North America. Keep that in mind when trying to wipe them out.


I know of a pair of guys that hunt yotes hard. They kill around 100 dogs a season, every season. They have a few hundred acres available to hunt.

JeremyK was correct as the population is determined by what the land can sustain. Let's just say you successfully wipe out the whole pack in said area..... How long till another pack rolls in !? In the meantime, the rabbits and squirrels and turkeys have had time to populate, which in turn means the land can now sustain an even higher population than before. So, do the math on eradication and think about how many of your neighbors would need to do the same thing, then consider the difficulty of actually killing ALL of them. Highly doubtful it could happen anytime soon.

The anti's. Forget showing the pics of a mangey dog or explaining that Fido and feefee might end up as dinner. Hunting yotes simply lets them know where they fall in the food chain. If we hunt them, they figure out they don't OWN that dirt. They play it smart. They hide. Or, in areas where there is no hunting or trapping pressure they get a sense of security and become beyond bold around humans and pets. Look at the yote that ran around the village of Lancaster last year. In and out of back yards even in the daytime. WHY NOT !!?? Anti's are out there throwing steaks at them !

Having tourneys is good for the town, it's good for the yote population and oddly enough good for the anti's. I don't want to say it's impossible to wipe them out, but I am very, very doubtful it will ever happen. As others have said, do some research on the species and you may be surprised.

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[ADK Native]

On 1/27/2020 at 7:50 PM, Steve D said:

a petition acquiring more than 20,000 signatures against the event,

Sad that more that 20,000 people are that ignorant of the need to control coyotes and have time to waste on such ridiculous protesting.  With all the real problems that need attention, these 20,000 people are protesting a coyote hunting contest?

[Four Season Whitetail's]

At least somebody sees where I was going with my point!


Yotes are an apex predator and said to be the most adaptable animal in North America. Keep that in mind when trying to wipe them out.


I know of a pair of guys that hunt yotes hard. They kill around 100 dogs a season, every season. They have a few hundred acres available to hunt.

JeremyK was correct as the population is determined by what the land can sustain. Let's just say you successfully wipe out the whole pack in said area..... How long till another pack rolls in !? In the meantime, the rabbits and squirrels and turkeys have had time to populate, which in turn means the land can now sustain an even higher population than before. So, do the math on eradication and think about how many of your neighbors would need to do the same thing, then consider the difficulty of actually killing ALL of them. Highly doubtful it could happen anytime soon.

The anti's. Forget showing the pics of a mangey dog or explaining that Fido and feefee might end up as dinner. Hunting yotes simply lets them know where they fall in the food chain. If we hunt them, they figure out they don't OWN that dirt. They play it smart. They hide. Or, in areas where there is no hunting or trapping pressure they get a sense of security and become beyond bold around humans and pets. Look at the yote that ran around the village of Lancaster last year. In and out of back yards even in the daytime. WHY NOT !!?? Anti's are out there throwing steaks at them !

Having tourneys is good for the town, it's good for the yote population and oddly enough good for the anti's. I don't want to say it's impossible to wipe them out, but I am very, very doubtful it will ever happen. As others have said, do some research on the species and you may be surprised.

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We have not seen that problem. We had a huge issue with them and after war was called our 1000 acres see’s very few anymore. Almost like just passing thru. Deer, Turkey numbers up and small game is even getting back ahold. You find the dens and you will level them fast. Funny how Ny is in the mind thinking that they are good for the land when all others call them the vermin they are? Then again I really should not be shocked.


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[chrisw]

We have not seen that problem. We had a huge issue with them and after war was called our 1000 acres see’s very few anymore. Almost like just passing thru. Deer, Turkey numbers up and small game is even getting back ahold. You find the dens and you will level them fast. Funny how Ny is in the mind thinking that they are good for the land when all others call them the vermin they are? Then again I really should not be shocked.


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As none of us are shocked that you're the only man to wipe every coyote from 1,000 acres AND keep them off...

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[Four Season Whitetail's]

As none of us are shocked that you're the only man to wipe every coyote from 1,000 acres AND keep them off...

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Glad you got it. Maybe someday you will be able to keep 1000 acres clean of the useless vermin. If you have the Nad’s to do it that is.


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[chrisw]

Glad you got it. Maybe someday you will be able to keep 1000 acres clean of the useless vermin. If you have the Nad’s to do it that is.


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My hero.

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[Four Season Whitetail's]

My hero.

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Thanks Sweetheart.


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[TreeGuy]

LOL at you two.....


4 seasons, your proving my point, you have stayed on them, and as you said in prior posts, at the most crucial time - when they are having pups. That is prob the most effective way to eradicate. But, keeping on them has taught them that your dirt means danger, and they have learned. Yes they cross through, yea you keep killing them, but I would bet the neighboring area has them, and beyond that. Not many are willing to go outside the NY regulations to control / eliminate the population. Now, if every NY'r did as you do, we could have a real chance at killing off the NY population, but as I also said they are adaptable. From the West coast to the east coast, frigid cold to boiling hot, they are there, and surviving.

Maybe if they had meat worth eating, or if pelts were fetching 3 figures, it would severely dent the population, but becoming exStinked ( did that on purpose ) it would not be an easy task.

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[Rattler]

19 hours ago, chrisw said:

I too take every opportunity I get to kill a coyote but not being big into coyote hunting any longer they are more creatures of opportunity now. But what separates you and I is I enjoy sharing the woods with animals of all kinds. I enjoy being outsmarted, I enjoy having all of the technological advances stacked on my side and still being outsmarted by a "rat." I base my beliefs from people who are far more versed in actual science and studies rather than anecdotal evidence. I do not believe NY State has a coyote problem as a whole, I believe we have done coyotes an injustice by labeling them as the devil without understanding them. Coyotes are no more a bloodthirsty canine than your dog on the couch. I fully respect coyotes, they are pretty, elusive, highly intelligent, adaptable and great at living right under your nose with no evidence but howls and tracks. I find that most people that have such a dismay for anything is based on fear or lack of knowledge. I hope coyotes are never eradicated because I for one like those times when I'm walking out of the woods in the dark, and hear that eery, raucous noise and realize that I'm just another animal out doing what comes natural to me, hunting for survival. Perhaps you should take a step back and come at the species with an open mind and let science and studies form your "opinion" of these creatures a bit more than blind fear of them taking over the world...
Just a cool quote I'll leave here. "When his body is killed, he simply puts his life forces together again, and comes back to life. “Coyote cannot die”, say the native people. In more then one legend, it is prophesied that the coyote will be the last animal on Earth."

The difference between you and I is how we look at the coyote.  You see it through a romantic lens, filled with wonder and amazement.  Maybe because you have little life experience with them.  Maybe because you love dogs and see them as some sort of wild dog.

I see them from a real world experience, practical perspective where they are nothing but trouble.  The more we have around here the more trouble we see.

Just this morning @ 6 AM a big doe ran into the side of my truck in the pre-dawn darkness as I was cruising along at 45 MPH.  It staggered off the road into the field it ran out of.  I got it in the spot light and saw 3 big yotes going after it as it got it's act together and started to run.  I'm sure those yotes chased that deer into the road.  They disappeared into the woods and I could hear the yotes snarling.  I wish I had my rifle in the truck.

NY state probably doesn't have a huge yote problem everywhere, but where they are numerous, they are vermin.

Does your dog on the couch run with other domestic dogs at night and hunt down deer to kill them?  Yotes are far more blood thirsty than most domestic dogs.

I feel people who love them see them as domestic dogs and feel that way because they lack real world knowledge of how troublesome they can become.

I would like to see the "open minded" defenders of yotes get some real world experience in an area where they are a problem, rather than relying on some book smart "scientist" using a global scale to defend the population as a whole, without breaking down the populace into the many different yote types and the differences in their lifestyles, especially where they are big and many.

When you live among a high yote population, where they are yote/wolf hybrids weighing 40 and 50 pounds, all the things that are passed off as "expert opinion" and "science", are exposed as flawed concerning the actual area in which you live.

There is no substitute for real world, practical, in the field experience when it comes to understanding the subject you wish to understand.

Edited January 31, 2020 by Rattler

[Rattler]

10 hours ago, TreeGuy said:

4 seasons, your proving my point, you have stayed on them, and as you said in prior posts, at the most crucial time - when they are having pups. That is prob the most effective way to eradicate. But, keeping on them has taught them that your dirt means danger, and they have learned. Yes they cross through, yea you keep killing them, but I would bet the neighboring area has them, and beyond that. Not many are willing to go outside the NY regulations to control / eliminate the population. Now, if every NY'r did as you do, we could have a real chance at killing off the NY population, but as I also said they are adaptable. From the West coast to the east coast, frigid cold to boiling hot, they are there, and surviving.

Maybe if they had meat worth eating, or if pelts were fetching 3 figures, it would severely dent the population, but becoming exStinked ( did that on purpose ) it would not be an easy task.

 

PA was paying a bounty on yotes and the population was being decimated during that time.  However, once the dog lovers started protesting and national animal groups began throwing huge bucks at the protesters, the bounties stopped and the yote population went right back up to where they were trouble again.

The yote problem can be solved if everyone is willing to work on solving it.  Your neighbors have to be willing to do their part as well.  But, as we can plainly see from this thread, opinions on the issue vary and many are not willing to even support solving the problem, much less do any work towards solving the problem.  Some don't even believe there is a problem. 

That is the only reason the yote problem remains unsolved.

Many are letting the anti-hunting propagandists intimidate them and don't want to be labeled as "blood thirsty killers of innocent animals" by the anti's.  If we let the anti's win this battle, we will find ourselves fighting another battle soon after, and another after that, until ALL hunting is banned, because that is their goal.