Blew up the red dot - lol

[moog5050]

So I decided to confirm that my 12g Winchester sxp with red dot was on for a future hunt with Pygmy.  What a fiasco.  
 

first shot was a fail to fire;

second was low;

third missed the entire board;

fourth was low again.  
 

So I rest the gun on a tripod and tap the red dot.  It bounces high and then low and high and the dot stays wherever it landed after the tap.  Check the mount which feels solid.  So I guess it didn’t handle the 3.5” magnum heavy blend well.

remove the sight and mounting rail.  3 more shots with jus bead at 25yds. All low but very consistent.   WTH.   Going to try Culver’s gun.   I guess I could just aim high but that seems silly.    Is it me or can some shotguns shoot low?   I don’t shoot much with just a bead so I am inclined to blame myself but the pattern is consistent. 
 

here are two targets.  Second has two shots in it.    I would feel more confident with a rifle. Lol
 

[BizCT]

I know nothing about red dots, but you're a bow guy. Use the bow!

[moog5050]

1 minute ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

I know nothing about red dots, but you're a bow guy. Use the bow!

Funny but it may be a better option.  I was consistent with the bead.  Just not where I want the poi.   

[reeltime]

Yes sir Moog that's why it's important to pattern your gun prior to season.
Both the grandkids I put red dots on their guns and I cannot stand them give me a straight up 2 and 1/2 power Crosshair scope and I'm a happy camper.
Probably at 35 or 40 yards your pattern would be a whole lot lower let alone the traditional bead on the shotgun buff covers his entire head.
With all things considered it appears to be a decent pattern although it's a little low.
If it doesn't work out depending on when you are going down to Dan's let me know if you can take one of mine

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[moog5050]

1 minute ago, reeltime said:

Yes sir Moog that's why it's important to pattern your gun prior to season.
Both the grandkids I put red dots on their guns and I cannot stand them give me a straight up 2 and 1/2 power Crosshair scope and I'm a happy camper.
Probably at 35 or 40 yards your pattern would be a whole lot lower let alone the traditional bead on the shotgun buff covers his entire head.
With all things considered it appears to be a decent pattern although it's a little low.
If it doesn't work out depending on when you are going down to Dan's let me know if you can take one of mine

Sent from my SM-G930VL using Tapatalk
 

Lee 

Thanks buddy, the question is, is it me or do some shotguns pattern low even with only a bead?

Edited April 23, 2020 by moog5050

[Deleted Account]

Sucks about the red dot. A lot of field shotguns are sighted to "cover" a target, so if you are using the bead to sight, then it would shoot low. Great idea in patterning it. I would just aim accordingly or find a sight/scope that would compensate. 

[steve863]

Other than being a bit low, it looks like a really good pattern to me.  Do you also have a bead in the middle of the barrel or just a front bead?  I find that the middle beads helps a great deal in aligning the barrel with the target.  There are lots of rifle style sights you can attach to the rib of turkey guns also.  They will definitely get you on target.  I myself could never completely trust something like a red dot sight.  Too many things that could go wrong with it at the wrong time.

[moog5050]

5 minutes ago, steve863 said:

Other than being a bit low, it looks like a really good pattern to me.  Do you also have a bead in the middle of the barrel or just a front bead?  I find that the middle beads helps a great deal in aligning the barrel with the target.  There are lots of rifle style sights you can attach to the rib of turkey guns also.  They will definitely get you on target.  I myself could never completely trust something like a red dot sight.  Too many things that could go wrong with it at the wrong time.

Just a front bead.   I think the sxp is really made for wing shooting.  

[Pygmy]

Moog and I were on the phone/email a couple of times during this process..

I told him it was the first time I ever participated in a CONFERENCE CALL regarding shotgun patterning...

[Moho81]

Your gun just patterns low that's all. Now you know to aim a touch high of target. If your not comfortable with that something like the TRUGLO F.A.S.T sight can be easily added and it allows for change in windage and elevation.

 https://www.truglo.com/firearms-turkey/fast-universal-shotgun-sights.asp?catid=F41C40D155E44609874F4225CB2A7EC2 

[Steve D]

43 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

the question is, is it me or do some shotguns pattern low even with only a bead?

I have never seen one pattern like that...especially at 25 yds. Maybe have someone else shoot the gun to see if they have the same results. If so I would say something is wrong with the gun.

[Robhuntandfish]

i had a mossberg that shot a foot low and a foot to the right every single time. With the slug barrel i killed a lot of deer.  But that bird barrel sucked.  Shot some turkeys with it and every time i had to put the sight on the turkey then tell myself "up.. over..." then fire.  Yeah i got a new turkey gun.  lol  No problems now.  

[airedale]

There is no better way to test the build quality and recoil resistance of an optical sight than a shotgun firing slugs or heavy shot loads. Back when I worked in a gun shop mounting scopes on slug guns I had to send plenty of various optics back to the manufacturers for repair from failure to hold up. That was quite a few years ago and I expect optics are of much better quality today, personally if I were to go with anything it would be a high quality low power scope, IE Leupold.

I am not a serious Turkey hunter so I went simple and reliable with a True Glow rib mounted adjustable open sight, not a lot of money, easy to mount and it works.

[sbuff]

I for one love the single bead on my NEF, I have had other shooters try it some shot high others shot low. Could just be the way your holding it .

[moog5050]

14 minutes ago, Steve D said:

I have never seen one pattern like that...especially at 25 yds. Maybe have someone else shoot the gun to see if they have the same results. If so I would say something is wrong with the gun.

I am not sure what I could be doing wrong.  I was lining the bead up with the middle of the top of the ramp up to the ribbed rail.  But I would not put the bead high enough to see any ribs.  Do you usually see ribs when aiming.   I am sure if I lined the bead higher and could see ribs it would hit higher.  

[Steve D]

7 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

I am not sure what I could be doing wrong

You probably aren't doing anything wrong it could be the gun. When I shoot a shotgun (which hasn't been much lately) I just look straight down the barrel and use the front bead. I actually took the center bead off my vented rib barrel because I found it distracting.. I have seen them shoot a little left or right and occasionally high but never low at 25 yds. like your target shows.

[moog5050]

Just now, Steve D said:

You probably aren't doing anything wrong it could be the gun. When I shoot a shotgun (which hasn't been much lately) I just look straight down the barrel and use the front bead. I actually took the center bead off my vented rib barrel because I found it distracting.. I have seen them shoot a little left or right and occasionally high but never low at 25 yds. like your target shows.

Little research indicates that the way to correct this is to add height to rear of rib.   I may just try adding a rear sight like Moho and Airedale suggested.  But not happening before this season. 

[Steve D]

31 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

I may just try adding a rear sight like Moho and Airedale suggested

I like the tru glow sights also but only use the back one for turkey when I hunt them. They just snap on or off the vent rib pretty easy and are reasonably priced. Most times I don't use them because I forget to put them on and just use the front bead. The one shown are not adjustable

https://www.opticsplanet.com/truglo-magnum-gobble-dot-turkey-hunting-sights.html

 

 

Edited April 23, 2020 by Steve D

[grampy]

1 hour ago, moog5050 said:

I am not sure what I could be doing wrong.  I was lining the bead up with the middle of the top of the ramp up to the ribbed rail.  But I would not put the bead high enough to see any ribs.  Do you usually see ribs when aiming.   I am sure if I lined the bead higher and could see ribs it would hit higher.  

THIS!!!

When I only have a front bead, I learned to "see" and "look down" the barrel of the shotgun. Seeing the barrel to the bead. Or in your case the ribbed rail. Try raising your cheek slightly higher on the stock, to see the rib to the bead. In the days when we used smooth barrels for deer, this was the most accurate way for me to aim. 

If I just shot seeing only the bead, I'd shoot low.

Give that a try Brian. And let us know if it helps.

[rachunter]

Those look like my rifle targets.
From what I’ve read point of aim and point of impact can differ with shotguns.


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[Steve D]

5 minutes ago, rachunter said:

From what I’ve read point of aim and point of impact can differ with shotguns.

Most diehard shotgunners will tell you "you point a shotgun and aim with a rifle". That is true in a lot of scenarios 

[moog5050]

42 minutes ago, grampy said:

THIS!!!

When I only have a front bead, I learned to "see" and "look down" the barrel of the shotgun. Seeing the barrel to the bead. Or in your case the ribbed rail. Try raising your cheek slightly higher on the stock, to see the rib to the bead. In the days when we used smooth barrels for deer, this was the most accurate way for me to aim. 

If I just shot seeing only the bead, I'd shoot low.

Give that a try Brian. And let us know if it helps.

Probably just a matter of shooting a bit more to find the sweet spot. That said 3.5” magnum heavy is not what I want to practice with.  Lol

[grampy]

2 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

Probably just a matter of shooting a bit more to find the sweet spot. That said 3.5” magnum heavy is not what I want to practice with.  Lol

Those three and a half's are punishing for sure!

I'm sure your Win SXP is fine, just have to get that sweet spot. You being predominantly a scoped rifle guy. You are used to keeping a cheek weld a bit lower on the stock. That is the perfect form for rifle shooting.

Shotguns, especially smoothbore with just a bead, sometimes requires a bit different mounting, than a scoped rifle, to find the sweet spot of that particular gun. I found that moving my cheek up just a bit, helped me see the barrel to the bead. 

Of course, a good quality low power scope will sort out the issue you have easily. And get you dead on.

Best of luck out in the turkey woods buddy!

 

[Lawdwaz]

1 hour ago, Steve D said:

Most diehard shotgunners will tell you "you point a shotgun and aim with a rifle". That is true in a lot of scenarios 

Not hunting spring or fall turkey that are usually standing still.  You need to aim, not point. 

[Steve D]

3 minutes ago, Lawdwaz said:

Not hunting spring or fall turkey that are usually standing still.  You need to aim, not point. 

I understand that...I was referring to "most" bird hunting....and besides I am not a "diehard" shotgunner.