Vaccination

[Versatile_Hunter]

1 hour ago, 9jNYstarkOH said:

Not sure how nursing home staff  not wanting the vaccine with out further and longer term studies has anything to do with being “undereducated and underskilled”. 55 percent of NYC firefighters are not taking the vaccine they must be too “undereducated and unskilled” also to make up there own mind on this vaccine. 

https://www.newsweek.com/55-percent-nyc-firefighters-say-they-wont-take-covid-vaccine-city-continues-see-case-surge-1552664?amp=1

It means that if you have even a very basic understanding of biology or science you would not fear this vaccine. Only a fool prone to believing conspiracy theories would object, on principle, to the vaccine. 

[9jNYstarkOH]

3 minutes ago, Versatile_Hunter said:

It means that if you have even a very basic understanding of biology or science you would not fear this vaccine. Only a fool prone to believing conspiracy theories would object, on principle, to the vaccine. 

You sure do paint with a pretty broad brush.

[Jeremy K]

19 minutes ago, Versatile_Hunter said:

It means that if you have even a very basic understanding of biology or science you would not fear this vaccine. Only a fool prone to believing conspiracy theories would object, on principle, to the vaccine. 

You're a good sheep ,you're exactly the kind of people the next administration is looking for . 

[phantom]

33 minutes ago, Jeremy K said:

You're a good sheep ,you're exactly the kind of people the next administration is looking for . 

That guy VH   sounds  mad because in a capitalism   system a guy with good business skills can make millions billions and nerd book worm  with a masters in philosophy can  not make nearly as much and is in debt from school loans . So they bitch about  the working and business class people  as they  sit around plotting how they can f things up for the hard workers in the world .  Instead of just facing the world as it really is they wait around  looking  for the gov to change it for them .  I mean it seems like every time that guy talks on here  the first words out of his mouth is that he is smarter then everyone else  congratulations   .

Edited January 1, 2021 by phantom

[left field]

Nerd Book Warm would be a great name for a band. 

[phantom]

1 minute ago, left field said:

Nerd Book Warm would be a great name for a band. 

correction worm 

[Jeremy K]

16 minutes ago, phantom said:

That guy VH   sounds  mad because in a capitalism   system a guy with good business skills can make millions billions and nerd book worm  with a masters in philosophy can  not make nearly as much and is debt from school loans . So they bitch about  the working and business class people  as they  sit around plotting how they can f things up for the hard workers in the world .  Instead of just facing the world as it really is they wait around  looking  for the gov to change it for them .  I mean it seems like every time that guy talks on here  the first words out of his mouth is that he is smarter then everyone else  congratulations   .

Being more educated and being smarter then other people are 2 entirely different things ,typically the extremely educated are some of the dumbest people you meet in everyday life . 

[Versatile_Hunter]

44 minutes ago, Jeremy K said:

You're a good sheep ,you're exactly the kind of people the next administration is looking for . 

God, this is the QAnon calling card - find someone who knows more than you and call them a sheep. Then skip around and pretend you’re a wolf. 

Ignorance does not make you tough and it certainly doesn’t make you a leader. 

[Versatile_Hunter]

16 minutes ago, phantom said:

correction worm 

I’m absolutely smarter than an antivaxxer or someone spouting paranoid conspiracy theories. But that isn’t very self-congratulatory.  You set the bar extremely low.

[Four Seasons]

1 minute ago, Versatile_Hunter said:

God, this is the QAnon calling card - find someone who knows more than you and call them a sheep. Then skip around and pretend you’re a wolf. 

Ignorance does not make you tough and it certainly doesn’t make you a leader. 

No but it does give him common sense.  These so called experts have been wrong on this shit so many times only to turn it back on Trump.        Me and mine will not even consider any shots for 6 months at the least. A few have already been thru it so they will never lift the sleeve I’m sure. 

[moog5050]

One can be 100% correct but fail to be an effective advocate when the argument degrades into personal attacks.   Just an observation.   Carry on.  

[Pygmy]

38 minutes ago, Jeremy K said:

Being more educated and being smarter then other people are 2 entirely different things ,typically the extremely educated are some of the dumbest people you meet in everyday life . 

After working  in an R&D facility  for many years with PHDs, I'd have to agree with this statement......

[Jeremy K]

44 minutes ago, Versatile_Hunter said:

God, this is the QAnon calling card - find someone who knows more than you and call them a sheep. Then skip around and pretend you’re a wolf. 

Ignorance does not make you tough and it certainly doesn’t make you a leader. 

I'm not trying to be a tough guy , i'm just not willing to be spoon fed by the government . 

[Jeremy K]

16 minutes ago, Pygmy said:

After working  in an R&D facility  for many years with PHDs, I'd have to agree with this statement......

The majority of my experience as well. 

[Pygmy]

That said, being 70 years old and having some health issues, I will take the vaccine when it is available to me...

If I were 20 years younger and in good health,  I might not, but at this point in my life, I believe the odds are more in my favor taking the vaccine...

[Jeremy K]

22 minutes ago, Pygmy said:

That said, being 70 years old and having some health issues, I will take the vaccine when it is available to me...

If I were 20 years younger and in good health,  I might not, but at this point in my life, I believe the odds are more in my favor taking the vaccine...

Everyones situation is unique . 

[Versatile_Hunter]

1 hour ago, Jeremy K said:

Being more educated and being smarter then other people are 2 entirely different things ,typically the extremely educated are some of the dumbest people you meet in everyday life . 

The discussion isn't actually about relative intelligence, common sense, or credentials. It's about basic facts about vaccines and epidemiology. If you have a general distrust of the government, scientists, and public health infrastructure, I guess that's fine. But that's not common sense - it's paranoia. 

[Four Seasons]

11 minutes ago, Versatile_Hunter said:

The discussion isn't actually about relative intelligence, common sense, or credentials. It's about basic facts about vaccines and epidemiology. If you have a general distrust of the government, scientists, and public health infrastructure, I guess that's fine. But that's not common sense - it's paranoia. 

When the Govt science and public health has in fact been proven to be wrong numerous times it’s far from being Paranoid. 

[Jeremy K]

23 minutes ago, Versatile_Hunter said:

The discussion isn't actually about relative intelligence, common sense, or credentials. It's about basic facts about vaccines and epidemiology. If you have a general distrust of the government, scientists, and public health infrastructure, I guess that's fine. But that's not common sense - it's paranoia. 

Kind of like being afraid of a virus that has a 99.8 percent survival rate ? Or a different knid of paranoia ?

[knehrke]

18 minutes ago, Versatile_Hunter said:

The discussion isn't actually about relative intelligence, common sense, or credentials. It's about basic facts about vaccines and epidemiology. If you have a general distrust of the government, scientists, and public health infrastructure, I guess that's fine. But that's not common sense - it's paranoia. 

It seems like it's time to weigh in with my useless  - though not uninformed - opinion. I teach this stuff to medical students. Yeah, I'm a PhD, but one of the smart ones, okay? Lol.

Anyway, while I'm fairly sure that this vaccine will end up being safe, and I spent a page explaining why earlier in this thread, I'm not arrogant enough to presume that I can predict the unforeseen consequences (hence "unforeseen") with perfect clarity. Sometimes science gets it wrong. In this case, I'd bet my life on being right, but I won't bet yours.

Everyone needs to make up their mind for themselves as to whether they think that the risk is worth the reward. But remember, it's not just a risk to yourself, but to society and to those you love. If you get sick, perhaps without symptoms, and you pass it on, you could impact another life. We still can't predict who is going to have poor outcomes beyond age being the best prognosticator, but it's not a negligible risk, despite what certain pundits might claim. Over 10% mortality in Mexico. Why? Million dollar question. 

I will take the vaccine when offered it. If you choose not to, peace - but please stay safe and protect yourself and your loved ones. Happy New Year!

[9jNYstarkOH]

@knehrke

Do you know anymore about the vaccine coverage for the newest strain as last article on it I could find was from the 22th and it was we think so but didn’t have time to run testing yet?

https://www.biospace.com/article/pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine-increasing-production-and-confident-it-can-handle-mutant-strain/

[Robhuntandfish]

I find it interesting that people keep repeating that its a 99% survival rate so I won't take the vaccine. I took it cause I don't want to get sick and I want to be able to hug my 83 year old mother and not kill her and I want to go to a store again without a mask.   Just because the rate of death is 1,2,3 % that's just one reason. I want to see this go away and don't want to be a part of helping it spread.  Also how many people have survived but we're in the hospital and on ventilation or in quarantine. I don't want that either.

And I am not concerned about side effects, which I haven't had and all I know that have taken it, haven't had.  

When infectious disease specialists recommend it , that means more to me than someone spouting unfounded doubts.  

Well said @knehrke. I agree to let people choose themselves. And hope after a few months most people see it isn't as big risk to take the vaccine than it is to get covid and pass it along to others and allow this way of life to continue. 

Edited January 1, 2021 by Robhuntandfish

[Versatile_Hunter]

34 minutes ago, knehrke said:

It seems like it's time to weigh in with my useless  - though not uninformed - opinion. I teach this stuff to medical students. Yeah, I'm a PhD, but one of the smart ones, okay? Lol.

Anyway, while I'm fairly sure that this vaccine will end up being safe, and I spent a page explaining why earlier in this thread, I'm not arrogant enough to presume that I can predict the unforeseen consequences (hence "unforeseen") with perfect clarity. Sometimes science gets it wrong. In this case, I'd bet my life on being right, but I won't bet yours.

Everyone needs to make up their mind for themselves as to whether they think that the risk is worth the reward. But remember, it's not just a risk to yourself, but to society and to those you love. If you get sick, perhaps without symptoms, and you pass it on, you could impact another life. We still can't predict who is going to have poor outcomes beyond age being the best prognosticator, but it's not a negligible risk, despite what certain pundits might claim. Over 10% mortality in Mexico. Why? Million dollar question. 

I will take the vaccine when offered it. If you choose not to, peace - but please stay safe and protect yourself and your loved ones. Happy New Year!

This is great, thanks. No one asks (or should ask) for 100% certainty or for scientists to be soothsayer. But it is important for experts to be definitive with their advice. Folks who have no experience or expertise in basic human physiology understandably have a difficult time assessing the risk of a vaccine relative to the consequence of infection, both to themselves and to health-compromised loved ones. This difficulty is compounded by the 24hr news cycle filled with pundits and talking heads whose very job seems to be to muddy the waters..

[Four Seasons]

6 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

I find it interesting that people keep repeating that its a 99% survival rate so I won't take the vaccine. I took it cause I don't want to get sick and I want to be able to hug my 83 year old mother and not kill her and I want to go to a store again without a mask.   Just because the rate of death is 1,2,3 % that's just one reason. I want to see this go away and don't want to be a part of helping it spread.  

And I am not concerned about side effects, which I haven't had and all I know that have taken it, haven't had.  

When infectious disease specialists recommend it , that means more to me than someone spouting unfounded doubts.  

Well said @knehrke. I agree to let people choose themselves. And hope after a few months most people see it isn't as big risk to take the vaccine than it is to get covid and pass it along to others and allow this way of life to continue. 

That’s all and well with your and anyone’s decisions.  Just remember. They are saying even with your shots you could still get it and give it to grandma. That may change but now it’s the reason you get the shot but still made to mask up. Never Ends. 

[Robhuntandfish]

8 minutes ago, Four Seasons said:

That’s all and well with your and anyone’s decisions.  Just remember. They are saying even with your shots you could still get it and give it to grandma. That may change but now it’s the reason you get the shot but still made to mask up. Never Ends. 

Right but the 95% effective rate of moderna makes that a lot better chance.  

In other words if the risk of getting struck by lightning is 95% less if I don't stand outside with a metal rod I am willing to put it down. 

The masks will go away once infection rates go down. If people take a vaccine that reduces the infection rate 95%.....see smallpox, polio, etc. 

I just don't see why people are afraid of to take it. Each their own. 

 

Edited January 1, 2021 by Robhuntandfish