Skull size aging.

[wolc123]

It seems relatively easy for 1.5 thru 3.5.  After that, it is probably a lot tougher.  For this group (that I killed since 2015), I am going with 2.5, 1.5, 3.5, 3.5, 3.5, 2.5, 3.5 years old, starting from the bottom.
 

Skull size seems pretty consistent thru that range.  Body size and antler size do not seem to be such good age indicators.  The smallest antlered 3.5 (est) shown here had the largest body, by a significant margin (over an inch of chest girth) while the largest antlered one had the smallest body by a significant margin (again by more than an inch of chest girth).  
 

The other two est 3.5’s had nearly the same sized body’s and antlers and were taken on the same farm.  One of those weighed 182 pounds field-dressed on a certified, made in USA, butcher’s scale.   I saved the lower jaws of the those two, just in case a dispute ever had to be settled.  

I brought last year’s est. 3.5 in from the barn today, now in the top spot, along with the slug that brought him down, and his lower jaw.    

have at it fsw

[wolc123]

I moved that last one over to the right a bit.  It’s only a 2x4 wall and I figured if someone slammed that door real hard, with him hanging right over it, he could fall and take out their  eye.  I’ll save that center spot for a smallmouth bass, if I ever get one that I want to mount.  

[TreeGuy]

Have you accounted for the township they came from ? I have heard there are certain towns in NY where a bucks antlers don't grow

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[Lawdwaz]

2 hours ago, wolc123 said:

It seems relatively easy for 1.5 thru 3.5.  After that, it is probably a lot tougher.  For this group (that I killed since 2015), I am going with 2.5, 1.5, 3.5, 3.5, 3.5, 2.5, 3.5 years old, starting from the bottom.
 

Skull size seems pretty consistent thru that range.  Body size and antler size do not seem to be such good age indicators.  The smallest antlered 3.5 (est) shown here had the largest body, by a significant margin (over an inch of chest girth) while the largest antlered one had the smallest body by a significant margin (again by more than an inch of chest girth).  
 

The other two est 3.5’s had nearly the same sized body’s and antlers and were taken on the same farm.  One of those weighed 182 pounds field-dressed on a certified, made in USA, butcher’s scale.   I saved the lower jaws of the those two, just in case a dispute ever had to be settled.  

I brought last year’s est. 3.5 in from the barn today, now in the top spot, along with the slug that brought him down, and his lower jaw.    

have at it fsw

Sometime I’ll stop by with one European mount I have of a six point I killed, not your average six either.  
 

The DEC aged it at 3.5 (stock answer).  He dressed out at 182lbs IIRC but had a considerably bigger skull than the rest of my European mounts.  
 

I do enjoy Genny beer……

[Kmartinson]

1 hour ago, TreeGuy said:

Have you accounted for the township they came from ? I have heard there are certain towns in NY where a bucks antlers don't grow

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Genetics definitely play a large roll

[wolc123]

9 hours ago, Lawdwaz said:

Sometime I’ll stop by with one European mount I have of a six point I killed, not your average six either.  
 

The DEC aged it at 3.5 (stock answer).  He dressed out at 182lbs IIRC but had a considerably bigger skull than the rest of my European mounts.  
 

I do enjoy Genny beer……

182 dressed weight seems right about on the average for a 3.5 based on my limited experience, so the DEC probably had it right.   
 

I have plenty of light, red-eye, spring-bock, and 12 horse in stock now (all in cans) so hydration shouldn’t be an issue if you stop by, and you are welcome anytime.  

[Buckmaster7600]

I don’t think skull size is a tool for aging deer. Deer like people have varying head sizes just like foot sizes chest etc.

No different than antlers, I have a 5.5yr “tooth sent out and aged” old buck from my home farm that scored 64” as a 5pt, many other areas he might have gotten a pass thinking he was a 1 or 2 year old by antler size alone. He weighed 199 on Dec 1st.


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[chrisw]

I don’t think skull size is a tool for aging deer. Deer like people have varying head sizes just like foot sizes chest etc.

No different than antlers, I have a 5.5yr “tooth sent out and aged” old buck from my home farm that scored 64” as a 5pt, many other areas he might have gotten a pass thinking he was a 1 or 2 year old by antler size alone. He weighed 199 on Dec 1st.


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Don't you question Wolc's barn science! Skull size and chest girth are the only tools needed.

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[ncountry]

37 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

I don’t think skull size is a tool for aging deer. Deer like people have varying head sizes just like foot sizes chest etc.

No different than antlers, I have a 5.5yr “tooth sent out and aged” old buck from my home farm that scored 64” as a 5pt, many other areas he might have gotten a pass thinking he was a 1 or 2 year old by antler size alone. He weighed 199 on Dec 1st.


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If my age was judged on skull size I would be 200 years old .

[Lawdwaz]

I’m not saying you can age a deer by the skull but the one in particular that I have seems like XXL noggin of a linebacker.   

[grampy]

2 minutes ago, Lawdwaz said:

I’m not saying you can age a deer by the skull but the one in particular that I have seems like XXL noggin of a linebacker.   

Buck I shot last season is like that too. Rack was not that big, but he had a huge body and XXL skull size.

[wolc123]

There seems to be more variation in antler size and body size, within an age class, than there is with skull size.  At least that seems to be the case  ,up to 3.5 years of age, for a whitetail buck.  
 

Aging deer is certainly no cake walk and it’s easy to understand why there is so much disagreement on methods. They don’t even know for sure how old Milo Hanson’s world record typical was.  Most sources say 3.5 but a few say 4.5.  
 

[chrisw]

There seems to be more variation in antler size and body size, within an age class, than there is with skull size.  At least that seems to be the case  ,up to 3.5 years of age, for a whitetail buck.  
 
Aging deer is certainly no cake walk and it’s easy to understand why there is so much disagreement on methods. They don’t even know for sure how old Milo Hanson’s world record typical was.  Most sources say 3.5 but a few say 4.5.  
 

With today's technology it's not really a guessing game anymore, cementum annuli is the most accurate test. It's not a test you can do at home but it is available if you want the most accurate age. You could give a lower jaw to 4 people and get 4 different ages, I put little faith in any method but Deerage.com anymore.

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[dbHunterNY]

We're going to send in approx 40 sets of teeth this year to matson lab for CA analysis. End of february they ship and get resukts back prior to turkey season. You can't accurately age a deer by skull size or chest girth. That said any deer reaches full skeletal maturity at 4.5- 5.5 yrs old. So naturally you'll get more chest girth and a bigger skull.

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[LET EM GROW]

ITs all genetics. They re just like humans. I had a buck we called "Whitey" just a big big body buck, very short nose, smaller than normal skull, very grey faced with a dark patch on his forehead.. really cool looking buck.. Killed at 4.5yr old. Just a neat specimen and proof that skull size doesn't mean much. 3 bucks killed on our lease this year, all 2.5 and 3.5 yr old bucks.. all 3 had different "sized" skulls in each direction.. 

[WNY Bowhunter]

After mounting 200+ NY bucks over the past 6 years...I'd say skull size isn't a great indicator of age. Most 3.5 yr old bucks have an eye to nose measurement of 7.25" but some will go 7.5". Older bucks will typically require a 7.5" form but can also go 7.25". Between these two sizes 90% of the deer I get in will be covered. Every year you get a few larger bucks in that  7.75-8" range.  I think only 2 of the 40+ deer I took in last fall and one cape donor buck will take a form with an ETN measurement >7.5". In 2020,I took 3 in over 8" (including my own and 2 others that were both shot by forum members here).

That being said, once you cut the skull plate off you can instantly tell the age class of a buck by the thickness of the skull plate. A fully mature 5-6.5 yo buck's skull plate will be 2-3x thicker than that of a 3.5yo. So, I guess I'd say the weight of a skull is it better indicator than the size.

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by WNY Bowhunter

[wolc123]

20 minutes ago, WNY Bowhunter said:

After mounting 200+ NY bucks over the past 6 years...I'd say skull size isn't a great indicator of age. Most 3.5 yr old bucks have an eye to nose measurement of 7.25" but some will go 7.5". Older bucks will typically require a 7.5" form but can also go 7.25". Between these two sizes 90% of the deer I get in will be covered. Every year you get a few larger bucks in that  7.75-8" range.  I think only 2 of the 40+ deer I took in last fall and one cape donor buck will take a form with an ETN measurement >7.5". In 2020,I took 3 in over 8" (including my own and 2 others that were both shot by forum members here).

That being said, once you cut the skull plate off you can instantly tell the age class of a buck by the thickness of the skull plate. A fully mature 5-6.5 yo buck's skull plate will be 2-3x thicker than that of a 3.5yo. So, I guess I'd say the weight of a skull is it better indicator than the size.

 

Scull skull size is far from perfect, but a tad better than antler size or body size as an age indicator, wouldn’t you agree ?   CA might be the best, if you are willing to pay and wait.  

[WNY Bowhunter]

Here's an example of what I'm talking about. All four of these are local Steuben County bucks. On the bottom are two average 3.5 yo type deer for this area. Above them are fully mature bucks.

[WNY Bowhunter]

1 hour ago, wolc123 said:

Scull skull size is far from perfect, but a tad better than antler size or body size as an age indicator, wouldn’t you agree ?   CA might be the best, if you are willing to pay and wait.  

IMHO, I'd rank them in the same category for reliability. Here are 2 different bucks from my own personal collection. Both are deadheads that I picked up, both of which I have history with. Both have the same length skull.  On the right is a 3.5 yo, on the left a buck that is at least 8.5 based on several years of sheds /trail cam pics...

Edited February 3, 2022 by WNY Bowhunter

[Kmartinson]

Teeth are pretty helpful. I have been surprised when 120"+ deer turn out to be 2.5, and have a 100" 4.5yr old.... also as stated previously this is a hot topic that often times people can't seam to agree on. Glad to learn the skull cap thickness is more reliable. Also imo the structure of the deers body seems to really make a huge change between 2.5 and 3.5. I would guess lots of big 2.5 deer are mistaken for 3.5 based on antlers but bone thickness seems more appropriate from my experience. 

[wolc123]

9 hours ago, WNY Bowhunter said:

IMHO, I'd rank them in the same category for reliability. Here are 2 different bucks from my own personal collection. Both are deadheads that I picked up, both of which I have history with. Both have the same length skull.  On the right is a 3.5 yo, on the left a buck that is at least 8.5 based on several years of sheds /trail cam pics...

That is interesting, and indicates that most of the skull size (not thickness) growth might happen by 3.5.   A combination of three crappy aging methods (antler size, body size, and skull size) might work ok up to 3.5.  
 

After that, a skull-thickness caliper, that would fit into the eye socket of a euro, might make a good aging tool. 
 

[johnplav]

On 2/3/2022 at 8:33 AM, WNY Bowhunter said:

That buck is incredible.

[BizCT]

With today's technology it's not really a guessing game anymore, cementum annuli is the most accurate test. It's not a test you can do at home but it is available if you want the most accurate age. You could give a lower jaw to 4 people and get 4 different ages, I put little faith in any method but Deerage.com anymore.

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+1. Unless a buck has a unique rack or characteristic and you get pics of it every single year, people can guess all they want between 3.5 and 7.5 but it’s just a guess. Same with molar wear beyond young bucks. Deerage is a great resource I will use on every buck going forward


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[G-Man]

5 hours ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

+1. Unless a buck has a unique rack or characteristic and you get pics of it every single year, people can guess all they want between 3.5 and 7.5 but it’s just a guess. Same with molar wear beyond young bucks. Deerage is a great resource I will use on every buck going forward


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100% with you on having to have photos from 3.5 to older ,  if not just a guess unless you have tooth cementum analysis done..  and can only do that when dead..  

[wolc123]

1 hour ago, G-Man said:

100% with you on having to have photos from 3.5 to older ,  if not just a guess unless you have tooth cementum analysis done..  and can only do that when dead..  

I agree, because the combination of skull size, body size, and antler size works well to determine age up to 3.5.  Sometimes you got to use all three.  
 

An example of that would be that third from the top buck in the op.  I initially called him a 2.5 in the 2019 crossbow harvest thread, based mostly on body size, because his body was significantly smaller that the 3.5’s I had taken in the two prior years.  
 

By the time I finished skinning and power-washing his skull, it was too late to edit and correct  his age on that post.  His skull was the same size as those other two 3.5’s, and his antlers were larger, so 2 out of 3 of those shitty aging tools said he was at least 3.5.     

What is the cost of aging a single buck from deerage.com and how long is the usual wait ?

If it’s more than $ 5, and 2 weeks, then I see a lucrative opportunity for the inventor of a skull-thickness aging caliper, for aging bucks over 3.5.  I don’t know that I have ever killed one older than that, but I’d be willing to spend $ 6 to find out, and not a penny more.