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Unless he is a Vegan his argument holds no merit what so ever. It is OK to pay someone to "kill" for you but not OK to do it yourself? I had a Priest growing up that used to tell my mother to not give me a hard time about skipping mass on Saturday or Sunday for hunting, because he believed doing that with my Father and being outdoors. I was as close or closer to God than in church. I don't think she ever really bought it but it did get me a pass...lol

80's,. And a Priest like that was probably one reason I stayed in the church as long as I did. It was the other devout hypocrites that I ran a crossed in the church later on in life that convinced me to bow out. The churches inflexibility and blind hard line is what has cost them.

Can't bait deer/bear/cops at any time of the year.

You should have strapped it to a tree in your woods.. I'm sure somebody would have thought they needed it... even if they didn't know what it was,lol

Most folks can't comprehend the influence of the pineal gland in their own heads, so I wouldn't expect the average hunter to know what's going on in a deers brain when it comes to something like that,lol We can all speculate our own beliefs until we're blue in the face, and have faith in them from one season to the next until they (the deer) prove us wrong. So be it.... live and learn.

This got boring quick. OP needs to come back and entertain.

born and raised an every Sunday going catholic. I still go as an adult but not as much as I should. I've always believed personally, and still do that religion of any kind is about being a good person. And I would absolutely agree with your priest that spending time with your father and alone with your thought in nature will absolutely do wonders for a child's sole.

Looks really nice, but way more than I would want to haul around for my typical shots in NY. I could see it being very useful out west where you shoot at the distances you do. My longest shot was around 230-240yds and I leaned against a tree for stability. Most shots have been less than 100yds.

I've always gutted them near where they fell if not the very spot. Down south it seems as if it's a taboo to gut a deer anywhere near where you will be hunting again. They will haul them away guts and all and then gut them just before they are ready to skin them. Drop the guts into a bag or pale from a hanging deer. Sometimes this is hours after the animal was killed. This never made sense to me, being that the temperatures are generally warmer down there. I guess traditions are a hard thing to break.

Seriously, how funny would it be if he got you on cam taking donuts from the drum, maybe with a waive and a steaming cup of coffee. Better yet, throw on a Yogi costume when you do it. BTW - I agree with others that you should leave it up to the landowner.

Why not just practice with the Nockturnals? Shoot spots, not groups and you dont have to worry about breaking them.

Buckstop please explain what you are calling the rut so we are all on the same page. My understanding Rut is when doe are in estrous and being bred. Then there is pre rut and post rut. I said it before and will say it again I dont think there are many hunters that know what the RUT period actually is. They see a spike chasing a doe and then get on the internet claiming the RUT is on. LOL And I fully understand how the climate differentiates the breeding times across north america, and do not agree what so ever with moon phase philosophy. I can be persuaded if scientific proof and not observation can disprove me. I see no correlation what so ever with the same exact moon over the whole country effecting the breeding of whitetails. You honestly can say with positive proof, not observations or theories but hard fact proof that on this novemeber 11th when we have our new moon that deer in Mexico are going to remember this on January 11 60 days later? Especially when you take in consideration an average life span of 5 1/2 years, 60 days must seem like 10 years to them lol. FourSeasonWhitetail will hopefully chime in on this next one. Take these deer farms who have gotten deer from different climate areas in the US. Everything I have read in the past say that it takes them approximately 2 years for there breeding cycle to acclimate to the new area they are residing in. Why is this? Did you read the articles I posted from the QDMA website? Care too explain how they scientifically were able to calculate from all the deer they collected based of a deers gestation period and age of the fetus on the does they collected put the dates almost exactly the same over many years they did this study? Not picking or bashing honestly, nothing wrong with a good debate.

Speak to my friend whose land I'm hunting. It's his neighbor and his call in my opinion.

Had a one legged girlfriend once. Her name was Eileen.

Donuts ? Can't be the guy is a cop...he'd be eating the bait... A friend of mine ran a bear hunting camp in Maine...Many of his customers were policemen from Philadelphia, and he used day old donuts for bait.. He put signs in his treestands..." Please don't eat the bait"....

Oh for goodness sakes. just type his screen name into google and up pops http://nytrappers.tripod.com/rondy.html His name and screen name is right there on the trappers site all linked together nicely. And he has a fully open to the public facebook page. Freaking "bullying"? with adults. damned country if turning into a bunch of pu$$ies

That is a very good, basic question. And it has been answered many times by some of the top deer hunters and biologists, in charge of managing state and private deer hunting populations, such as Dr. James Kroll and Wayne Laroche (formerly head of Vermont's Fish and Game Dept. and now recently head of Pa.'s...thank god!) The timing of the rut varies across the country. Generally, it is later as we move further south, but not completely. Why? For instance, deer here in the Midwest and Northeast are Oct.-Nov. breeders, Deer in Mississippi and Alabama breed from January into March, Mexican whitetails rut in January. Here we are facing the Harvest Moon as the "set trigger" if you will. Our deer have to breed in a three week or so window so that the fawns will hit the ground in late May or early June (like this year.) NYS jumped the gun thinking that we had a poor fawn crop because there were no fawns evident in May...but we had a late rut ...so we had a late fawn drop. It happened in June. Never seen so many fawns. But that's another story...for another post. Back to our fawns...if they were born earlier, they freeze will little food. Later, (like July) and they can not be mature enough to handle a rough winter. Mississippi has a different paradigm. There, if fawns hit the ground it May, they would not survive due to the severe flooding. So their biological clocks favored a later rut. And so on. But they are all set by the previous full moon. It does not matter where...the full moon still has a significant effect on the timing of the breeding because all whitetails are called short day breeders...totally dependent upon light (daylight and moonlight) to set their internal biological clocks. Deer, elk, sheep, turkeys...I have been studying the southern ruts for years...and it is interesting to see how perfectly the southern deer hunting websites blow up with "the rut is on!!" Only a month or two later than ours, almost to the day.

I would check to see if there are any donuts in that drum. I love donuts.

Same thing I did when I found someone else's hunting spot at my buddy's house. I told him about it before I did anything and let him handle it.

PITA and people like Mr.Irving and the anti hunting establishment, will use religion or any other crutch they can to farther their misguided views. That are not based on scientifically or biologically proven facts that regulated hunting actually improves the sustainability of species of animals that are hunted. And even improves the habitat of non hunted species as well. For the benefit of all wild things. Make no mistake, that people like Mr. Irving are very organized and a threat to hunting, and will use any and all propaganda to farther their agenda. That is why now, more than ever, hunter's must not quibble amongst ourselves. We need to stand strong together for the sake of huntings future generations.

First time for a clover field,should it be further along for this time of year?

I actually have a spot that I like to gut them. But that's only because its next to a small creek that I can wash my hands, knife and deer in before i make the final drag to the landowners house.

Just like they would freeze if they had to hunt in the snow, it's a different world below the mason dixion line....

how would a deer know what guts smell like?

Gut them where they lay. Most times yote's and crows among other critters will have the pile cleaned up within a day or so. Your scent in the area from gutting the deer will alarm them more than the gut pile itself.

mine made my arrow fly higher on the target at least that is what I am using for an excuse for missing a Doe on tuesday Honestly I don't notice a difference in flight

Never heard that one before I do not believe it will spook deer. Animals will come across dead animals all the time

The basic thing to remember is to establish a good root system during the growing season. That way winter kill will be less. Maybe been nice to plant a cereal grain with the clover for two reason; one, to hold the snow cover more to protect the young seedlings during the freezing thaw cycle of winter plus hold snow pack on the ground to lessen freezing, wind burn and two, to draw in some wildlife this season.

And you most likely are right and the day will come when he wants to even the score. Hope he is not to much of a redneck!

Nice walleye! X-Calibur Lighting Systems http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

A whale's penis. A blue whale's is 8 feet long. True story Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

^ at least he's a Sabres fan. I try to look for the good in people.

Dale is a character just like the rest of the officers at nysta.

Buckstopshere.....I'm guessing you saw the October issue of Deer & Deer Hunting where your boy Charles Alsheimer wrote an article called "Peak Rut Forecast / Lunar Rut Predictions 2015. In the article he states the "magic time" will be from Nov.1 thru Nov.10th. I no expert but I made a reply on page 3 that my "magic Time " has always been the days between Election Day and Veterans Day. He does concede that there are factors such as weather , temperature and human pressure which can affect the rut and it's intensity. With that being said , if I only had 7 days to hunt each and every year , it would always be between Election Day and Veterans Day.

Those are Nice Thanks for posting them

Great pics!!

all shed around me.

I love the new member posts this time of year. "Hi, I'm a deer hunter and would like to be a part of your community, I'll probably just post a few times in the fall and then go dormant. However I'd like to introduce myself by telling half of you that you're idiots and TGFY" lol

To me this doesn't fit into one of those "Whoops!" categories. His breaking of the law is blatant and intentional and shows an attitude of total disregard for any conservation law. It is time to take a few pictures and email them to the DEC with location info. If you can supply GPS coordinates, so much the better. Let them do with that info whatever they wish. Setting that all up where he did is a blatant disregard for having put you in this uncomfortable position. That alone would piss me off. Oh, one other thing. Be sure to touch base with your landowner friend because any action will reflect on him and he may or may not want to get involved or may want to try a more neighborly reaction.

Nice pics!

Sweet- hope they don't bust them racks up too bad before you get a chance to let the air out of one!

Nice shots!

Well, I'm not sure that this thread answered any earth-shattering questions for anyone, but at least it was a good airing of all the fears and attitudes that people have about civilian involvement in law enforcement. I have to say that I do understand pieces of every argument. Personally I have an attitude that relies on motives or intents and the possibilities that violations may or may not be repeated that determine whether I will blow the whistle. Ignorance of the law is no excuse, so says the government. But if I am convinced that the violator really didn't have a clue about the law or the interpretation of it, I likely will let a first offence slide without reporting it. I have seen enough instances of mass confusion on this forum regarding the laws, that I can certainly be sympathetic in that area. On the other hand, I don't want to hear bragging about law breaking or any signal that violations are intentional. That will get me involved damn quick regardless of the consequences. There is also an element of severity that enters into my decision to report or not report. Some things are not worth the hassle for me, the DEC, or the violator to even bother with. It's a judgment call. Is that all the exact correct way to deal with reporting violations? .... I don't know, but it is my way.

wearing a backtag in noway proves you have a right to be on someones land. It is also not illegal to be in the woods without one. Secondly, most intelligent trespassers and poachers aren't wearing their tags anyhow. It's basically the safe act. punish the law abiders while not addressing the breakers.

Crossbows not allowed in certain bow-only areas such as Westchester makes no sense.

I have the Primos trigger stick monopod and bipod. I like the bipod better. Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

Is fishing also a sin? He calls it killing, when it is hunting. I doubt he knows the difference.

Hunters have a saint:Hubert, Patron Saint of Hunters By ©Mitch Ballard Jagermeister Label. Jagermeister label showing stag with cross suspended between antlers. Some historical scholars estimate the year was 705 A.D. while others claim it was 656. Regardless, St. Hubert, the Patron Saint of Hunters was born in the European city of Maastricht of French nationality. All the scholars agree Hubert died at Fura (the modern city of Tervueren) in the province of Brabant on May 30, 727 A.D. Hubert was the oldest son of Bertrand, Duke of Aquintaine and grandson of Charibert, King of Toulouse - a descendant of The Great Pharamond. Hubert was reportedly a great lover of pleasure and his chief passion was the chase, to which he devoted nearly all his time. According to the legend, Hubert was afield the morning of Good Friday (while the faithful were crowding into church) and he was participating in the chase of a deer on horseback with his famous hounds. The Catholic Encyclopedia states: As he was pursuing a magnificent stag, and in a clearing in the forest, the animal stopped and turned. Hubert was astounded at perceiving a crucifix suspended between its antlers, while he heard a voice from the figure of Christ say, "Hubert, unless you turn to the Lord, and lead a holy life, you shall quickly fall into the abyss of Hell!" Hubert dismounted immediately from his horse, fell prostrate on the ground and asked, "Lord, what would you have me do?" He immediately received the reply, "Go and seek Lambert and he will instruct you." At the time, Lambert was the Bishop of Maastricht, who kindly received Hubert and became his spiritual advisor. Complicating matters even further, Hubert lost his wife during the childbirth of their first son shortly after his vision in the woods. Hubert decided to renounce all his honors, titles and military rank. Plus he relinquished his birthright as heir to the Duchy of Aquintaine, giving it to his younger brother Eudon, whom he also made the godfather of his infant son, Floribert. Another version of the legend reports Lambert taught Hubert self discipline by forcing him to live alone as a hermit in the Ardennes (the Great French Forest) for a while. After distributing all his wealth among the poor, Hubert entered upon his studies for the priesthood and was soon ordained. Shortly afterward he became one of Lambert's chief associates in the administration of his Diocese. Upon the advice of Lambert, Hubert made a pilgrimage to Rome and during his absence, Lambert was assassinated, but that's another story in itself. At the same hour as the Pope was giving an audience to Hubert, the Pope was distracted by a vision of Lambert's murder and on the spot he appointed Hubert as the new Bishop, replacing Lambert. Hubert returned to become the 31st Bishop of Maastricht (and the first Bishop of Liege) and was eventually described as the "Apostle of the Ardennes." According to the legend, idolatry still lingered in the Ardennes Forest and "risking his life, Hubert penetrated the remote lurking places of paganism in his pursuit of souls and finally brought about the abolishment of the worship of idols in his neighborhood." Eventually, Hubert went to dedicate a new church but had another vision, this one of his impending death. He continued anyway, preaching a valedictory sermon and fell sick almost immediately. Within six days, Hubert died while repeating The Lord's Prayer. The Roman Catholic Church has designated his feast day as November 3, appropriately enough since the rut is usually at or near its peak by then. Hubert reportedly also worked several miracles during his life by exorcising those possessed by demons and curing a case of rabies after making the sign of the cross over the victim. Hubert is also the patron saint for archers, forest workers, furriers and trappers, hunters and huntsmen as well as hunting as a profession. He is also the patron saint for mathematicians, machinists, precision instrument makers and smelters along with those stricken with hydrophobia (rabies) and dogs. In a related topic, bloodhounds (which are well known for their scenting ability and commonly acknowledged as ancestors of many different hunting dog breeds) reportedly originated from a cross between the black hounds of St. Hubert and the white hounds of the House of Talbot - both of which are from the Ardennes. Records from the House of Talbot provide further credence to this theory and tradition indicates many bloodhounds in Europe are still known and registered as the "Ohien de St. Hubert." Hubert's representation is a stag bearing a cross or crucifix between its antlers: Hence the Master Hunter's (or Jagermeister's) Badge of Honor. Jagermeister Bottle.In fact the bottle cap on an imported bottle of Jagermeister herbal liqueur is a duplication of the Master Hunter's badge. The bottle's label also has the same representation of a stag with a shining cross, suspended between the antlers, as the brand's logo. Surrounding the label is a German phrase, which loosely translated means: "This is the hunter's badge of honor, which he protects and wears as his shield, to guard, while in the fine and honorable profession of hunting; which also honors the Creator and his creations." Literally translated, Jagermeister means Master Hunter in the German language. The term is applied to those who have rightfully earned the respect of their peers and regular citizens as well. German heritage requires much more of hunters than simply passing an eight-hour safety course before being issued a license. In that country it is a privilege to go afield with a firearm and the sport requires many seasons of apprenticeship. Following four years of apprenticeship a hunter is then allowed to take the exam for Jagermeister certification. This distinct traditional heritage is from the country that also brought us the legend of Bambi. You'll recall the bad guys in the original Bambi story were "poachers," not hunters. There is no anti-hunting social agenda in Germany since the sport is highly regulated and steeped in tradition. Hunters are welcomed everywhere. German hunters also participate in extensive rituals following the death of a big game animal taken while hunting, along with other cultural heritages including a toast to the fallen animal itself. Caveman instincts bond all hunters when they're in the field - no matter what modern civilization has done to each person. Quite possibly those centuries-old traditions are what has evolved into the North American big game hunter's need to participate in some form of ceremony following the kill. Maybe they are unsure of just where or how it started, but many hunters (including Native Americans) repeat a prayer, or chant, or simply express their joy with a shout of excitement after the shot is confirmed and the animal is down. Anything from smearing the blood of a freshly killed deer on your face (similar to war paint) to saying a brief prayer of thanks to loud whoops, or simply firm handshakes all around pretty much describe the range of activities surrounding a freshly killed deer or elk here in America. It certainly is a rite of passage for a youngster to take their first big game animal and it's an experience they'll never forget. Regardless, giving thanks to the dead animal, and to God, for the resulting nourishment must be what it's all about. Respect for the fallen, and seeking a blessing for the meat, and honoring the death of one of God's creatures must be the catalyst for these traditions. Of course tagging fresh venison is the object, but preparing for and participating in the hunt is almost as rewarding. Activities surrounding the hunt as well as the camaraderie involved with the "tribe" provide untold pleasure as it creates lasting memories. It is very inappropriate to desecrate, actually violating the sacredness, of any mounted animal with sunglasses, hats, or cigarettes shoved into a taxidermist's work of art. Humoring people who've never participated in the honor of taking a wild game animal's life is disgusting. Domesticated animals provide suitable protein but they don't enjoy the freedom of the wildness experienced by game animals during their lives in the forests and fields. Our teeth and stomachs convert that deer's living energy into our own and we owe it much deserved respect. So, if you wish, say a prayer of thanksgiving or ask a blessing of St. Hubert when you kill your next deer or elk; just remember to honor the death of the wild animal and utilize the meat with respect. It died so that you might live. Personal Cross Gallery 2 Cross Subject Gallery 2 Subject Gallery Home Credits: Hubert, Patron Saint of Hunters - Written by © Mitch Ballard; contributing writer for ESPN2's outdoor television program, "NaturalGear's Wildlife Quest." Used by permission of Mitch Ballard. Article may not be copied or reproduced without prior written permission of the author. Wildlife Quest Productions, Inc. P.O. Box 470684 Tulsa, OK 74147 http://www.wildlifequest.tv/ Jagermeister label and bottle photographs by Eric Shindelbower. Thanks goes to Ben Minor for his assistance; without his help this web page would not have been possible. Jagermeister banner. Background pattern courtesy of © Web page design and content - Eric Shindelbower

If it 's any consolation to ANYONE.... I haven't clicked on ANY one of the links in this post yet. (and I have no intentions to) sorry for all the effort put into finding them. One thing I'll never do is base a rut hunt off someone elses observations since they're not seeing the same things I'm seeing. I'd hate for my own observations be clouded by what I "should be seeing" when I'm not ......and what "I am seeing" when "I shouldn't be" according to ...well...whoever knows better,lol Get out there and hunt the ruts many phases with all the different challenges it throws at you along the way. When you think you got it figured out..... face it,... you don't, but you may be one step closer to it so keep your eyes peeled. When you're still open to translating experiences and encounters to carry over into the next season is when the REAL learning begins. Sometimes this stuff takes time to sink in. Remember, some of us don't "LIVE" out there every day...., deer do. The more time you have to live in their world, the more you'll understand it.

I would take the first 2 week off in November but I have 28 day off in november