New bill introduced-

[jr.deerslayer]

NEW YORK (AP) - Ten days after the Colorado movie theater massacre, federal lawmakers introduced a bill that would effectively ban people like suspect James Holmes from buying thousands of rounds of ammunition by mail or online.

"It's time to close the loophole that's allowing killers - deranged, insane - and even terrorists to buy ammunition online," said U.S. Sen. Frank Lautenberg of New Jersey.

He was joined Monday on the steps of City Hall in Manhattan by U.S. Rep. Carolyn McCarthy of New York to announce the Stop Online Ammunition Sales Act.

McCarthy's husband was killed and their son paralyzed in 1993 after a gunman opened fire on a Long Island Rail Road train, leaving five others dead.

Lautenberg said he and McCarthy, both Democrats, were "on a mission": to ensure the safety of all Americans by passing legislation that would close loopholes in gun laws allowing people like the suspect in the Aurora, Colo., shootings "to anonymously stockpile for mass murder."

Under the bill, only licensed dealers would be allowed to sell ammunition. They would have to notify a law enforcement official within five business days about any sale of more than 1,000 rounds to an unlicensed person.

The bill also would require buyers who aren't licensed dealers to show a photo ID. And that would mean eye contact with someone purchasing ammunition.

"If you're going to buy these large amounts of ammunition, somebody should see your face," Lautenberg said.

Holmes purchased 6,000 rounds of ammunition online "like you might order shoes or food," Lautenberg said. "He didn't have to interact with another human being who could have noticed his abnormal behavior."

The legislation, to be introduced in Congress this week, was spurred by the Colorado movie theater shooting rampage that killed 12 people and injured more than 50. The suspect, Holmes, was charged Monday with 142 counts in the massacre; he hasn't yet entered a plea.

The July 20 rampage follows other recent mass violence including the 1999 Columbine shootings, the 2007 Virginia Tech massacre and last year's shooting in Tucson that killed six and seriously injured U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords of Arizona.

"We are calling for a national outcry to stop gun violence in this country," McCarthy said.

On the morning after the Aurora killings, McCarthy said, she was brought back "to that moment when your family went through a similar tragedy, and the pain does not go away."

The White House on Monday didn't immediately offer its support to the Democrat-sponsored bill.

"I haven't seen the specific piece of legislation that has been offered up today," White House spokesman Josh Earnest said at the daily briefing, adding that it would be "evaluated."

He said President Barack Obama "believes in the Second Amendment of the Constitution, in the right to bear arms." But the president "also believes that we should take robust steps, within existing law" to address gun issues.

Since the Aurora shootings, one of the most outspoken voices in favor of gun control has been New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who is pressing Obama and his Republican challenger Mitt Romney to tackle the issue of gun violence.

[Grouse]

It's always Democrats who push these anti-gun laws. Vote Obama a 2nd term and we will all get screwed. The Dems will not push this crap in an election year, but after the election, it's all out war on gun owners if they win.

Who cares how much ammo this nut bought online? Do you think he was carrying 6000 rounds on him in the theater? Did he shoot 6000 times? No. What has one thing got to do with another?

Do you know how expensive ammo will become if only FFL's can sell it to you? And if you can pay the price for it afterwards, what's to stop someone from buying 1000 rounds a week for 6 weeks to avoid the law? STUPID!!

Pure harassment of the hated gun owner by the Dems is all it is!!

[growalot]

Grouse ...don't give them any more ideas...lol

[sweet old bill]

Why is this a issue of right wing vs left wing. Sure seems like a reasonable requirement, why would a normal god fearing hunter be buying over a 1000 rounds at a time. If you are buying for a total of a gun club, maybe, but they are saying ou still could buy but just notify to verify why you have a need for 1000 + rounds...with the cost of BOX OF 308 CAL hunting shells I sure the most I ever purchased at one time was 3 boxs of 20 shells per box.

as a hunter I support this change to our laws.

[oakfall]

Thanks Bill for bringing a little common sense to this forum.

[virgil]

Thanks Bill for bringing a little common sense to this forum.

Agreed. Now prepare to be attacked.

[Early]

I, too, can agree with Bill...with one reservation: I buy ammo online. I like such purchases to be my business...with me and the dealer knowing...no one else. Now, I have not, and will never be ordering 1000 rds of any kind of ammo, but I fear, nonetheless, that I will be placed on some sort of govt. "watch list" if this law passes and I buy ammo online thereafter. I do not like govt. watching over my shoulder.

[Setters4life]

The conundrum is 2 "bricks" of .22's is 1,000 rounds. (No one's ever bought a couple of bricks of .22's, especially when they are on sale?) Giving in to death by a thousands cuts isn't good.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Some guys buy alot of rounds at once to save money on the ammo, shipping costs, etc. This isnt just about hunting here guys. What about competitive shooters and guys that spend alot of time at the range?

Honestly, you guys sitting here saying that you support this law because YOU have no need to buy more than 1000 rounds at a time, are being pretty doggone selfish and short sighted. Just wait till they keep whittling it down further and further. At some point it will affect you and youll be crying about it. Like the old saying goes, give them an inch, theyll take a mile.

[SteveB]

It is not about need - it's about setting a precedent for control.

So the level of "need" get's set at 1000. We have agreed to control.

Then someone decides hunters only shoot at most a handful of deer - 20 is all they need.

No longer about whether the number should be regulated - now we are fighting for what the number should be.

And you know what - someone bent on doing bad will still find a way to fill their "need".

How much ammo a person buys does not make them a criminal - committing a crime with it does.

[mike rossi]

Notice the fact he obtained explosive components doesnt get as much attention as guns & ammo...

[NFA-ADK]

I agree with WNYBuckHunter. I do not go to the range like I use to but... when I did have the huntington rifle range open and I was a member I shot a bunch of rounds... 1000 round purchases was not out of the ordinary. It is much cheaper when you shot a lot and it's less hasle. Who wants to go to the store to buy ammo every week or two when you shot a lot. I feel this is just another stupid law that will not do anything to stop some idiot from killing people. Then the freak will just buy 10,000 rounds over the course of a year, this will not stop anything. It's just another stupid feel good law that won't do anything except water down our rights even more. Just because this idiot purchased online does not mean he could not go to the local walmart and get the same ammo. When was the last time you saw or heard of walmart or some other store deny someone ammo. Unless the person states bad intent it's hard to stop people from getting ammo. Red hair is not proof of ill intent... If he acted normal (or quite)for the 5 minuts it took to purchase the ammo, it would be done.

Soon you will not be allowed to get anything more than a box of 20 rounds because some idiot goes nuts. Then you will have to prove you are using them. Then you will have to provide the range you use and some sort of proof you fired all the ammo.

I agree, let them get re-elected and our rights as gun owners are going to be attacked again... I think they would take 5 miles if we give them a inch...

This law would not have stoped this freak and is just another way of gov controling the population. If they can not arm themselves they can not fight back...Mandatory rifle registrations comeing soon? This way they know who to go after first...

It is already a proven fact that an armed public is safer than unarmed. (Crooks think twice!) THE GOV JUST DOES NOT WANT YOU TO KNOW THIS... And all those people who say some one who was armed could not have stoped this guy are living in a dream world... When was the last time you saw a cop in a movie theater? They can not be every place yet a armed public can be... Plain and simple, allow people to carry fire arms then the crooks would not be the only ones with guns...

[Culvercreek hunt club]

"Mr. distributor, I would like 2 bricks of .22, 5 boxes of steel brid shot, 3 boxes of 30-06, 3 boxes of 22-250, 2 boxes of 30-30"

Why can't i have them? That is what I will be using to hunt this fall.

Bottom line it is just another "feel good" law that will do nothing. So I get banged a bit more for shipping, if I am a criminal I will just place several orders under the limit. or travel to multiple stores and purchase under the limit.

[covert]

Why is this a issue of right wing vs left wing. Sure seems like a reasonable requirement, why would a normal god fearing hunter be buying over a 1000 rounds at a time. If you are buying for a total of a gun club, maybe, but they are saying ou still could buy but just notify to verify why you have a need for 1000 + rounds...with the cost of BOX OF 308 CAL hunting shells I sure the most I ever purchased at one time was 3 boxs of 20 shells per box.

as a hunter I support this change to our laws.

It's an issue of left vs right because typically it is the Left who come up with these types of knee-jerk feel good laws so they can feel like they're accomplishing something. The lunatic who shot up the movie theater had his apartment booby-trapped and rigged to explode with enough stuff to level the building. Can you honestly tell me you believe that he couldn't have 1) lied when they asked him what he wanted the ammo for and 2) if he couldn't get it he would've just thrown up his hands and not gone through with his evil plot with explosives instead?

I shoot a lot so before I started handloading I would buy most of my ammo at the gun shows in Syracuse so I'd buy 3-4000 rounds at each show. If my friend couldn't go I'd grab some for him too. I know people who will pitch in and get a big order together to get a better deal on shipping. When you could still get Federal .22LR 550 rnd bulk packs at WalMart for $9.99 I'd grab three or four on payday to stock up for the summer.

I have news for you, there are evil people out there who aren't right in the head. They are going to do evil s - - t. Once they have already commited themselves to breaking the ultimate laws of God and man in murdering people, the threat of a felony weapons charge ain't gonna' stop them.

[Dom]

It's an issue of left vs right because typically it is the Left who come up with these types of knee-jerk feel good laws so they can feel like they're accomplishing something. The lunatic who shot up the movie theater had his apartment booby-trapped and rigged to explode with enough stuff to level the building. Can you honestly tell me you believe that he couldn't have 1) lied when they asked him what he wanted the ammo for and 2) if he couldn't get it he would've just thrown up his hands and not gone through with his evil plot with explosives instead?

I shoot a lot so before I started handloading I would buy most of my ammo at the gun shows in Syracuse so I'd buy 3-4000 rounds at each show. If my friend couldn't go I'd grab some for him too. I know people who will pitch in and get a big order together to get a better deal on shipping. When you could still get Federal .22LR 550 rnd bulk packs at WalMart for $9.99 I'd grab three or four on payday to stock up for the summer.

I have news for you, there are evil people out there who aren't right in the head. They are going to do evil s - - t. Once they have already commited themselves to breaking the ultimate laws of God and man in murdering people, the threat of a felony weapons charge ain't gonna' stop them.

That's where I shop to and buy 22's in bulk alway's have love to plink.

[sweet old bill]

I know in the dark of night these left wingers are now jsut looking at this email site and your names our on the list. They will be there within 48 hours to take your guns and ammo. I am sure Obma is making out a list list and checking it twice, prior being released to the FBI for action. That has to be on the top of his list, not to strive to get the over 8% that are looking for job back to work...

come on guys it does not say that you can not buy over a 1000 rounds but does say hey maybe it a good idea to see what is being purchased and by who. I sure think that if I say Mr A, had purcahsed over 1000 rounds from several on line dealers and all were the same cal, for a total amount purchase say 3000 rounds, maybe it may be wise to have the local cops or state cops just make a call and ask what are you doing with all that ammo ? We have laws in effect to monitor how much of certern drugs you can buy even if they are over the counter type but mixed with other chemicals make other chemicals / drugs that are not allowed by law...

[SteveB]

Drugs aren't covered in the constitution. Plus the cost of the program you suggest would be enormous for little real effect other then the feel good one or for re election campaigns.

How many crimes are committed by someone who has 1000's of rounds of ammo vs those with a maybe a couple clips worth?

Edited August 2, 2012 by SteveB

[Doc]

I have a neighbor that I'm sure burns up enough ammo to keep the feds busy if they started monitoring that sort of thing. I have seen others that have no problem burning up 1000 rounds. annually, I go through quite a bit of ammo myself. Do we want our law enforcement officers chasing around after all these innocent, legal, harmless activities? I mean we can come up with enough nonsense-type laws to keep them all busy watching us law abiding folks so that they won't have time to investigate real terrorists and others that really do pose a threat. I mean, if we put our minds to it, I'm sure we can concoct all kinds of worthless laws to keep them people busy and vitually impotent in terms of being able to do their job.

[Grouse]

The Democrats eventually want to limit how much ammo you can possess at one time too. Allowing them to get away with this one, simply emboldens them to move on to the next oppressive attempt. They have already floated bills to limit how much ammo anyone can own, but they got shot down as ridiculous. But everytime they are allowed to pass any bill like this one, they lower the level of objection to each new, more restrictive bill, they want to put into law.

Thinking this is common sense legislation is a recent trend. Twenty years ago, it would have sparked huge outrage from folks who were not numb to government oppression of our rights.

How much are you willing to allow them to dictate? With every little encroachment, you invite them to come up with more.

[Skillet]

The Democrats eventually want to limit how much ammo you can possess at one time too. Allowing them to get away with this one, simply emboldens them to move on to the next oppressive attempt. They have already floated bills to limit how much ammo anyone can own, but they got shot down as ridiculous. But everytime they are allowed to pass any bill like this one, they lower the level of objection to each new, more restrictive bill, they want to put into law.

Thinking this is common sense legislation is a recent trend. Twenty years ago, it would have sparked huge outrage from folks who were not numb to government oppression of our rights.

How much are you willing to allow them to dictate? With every little encroachment, you invite them to come up with more.

Their technique is called "The Overton window"

Well put, Grouse.

[NFA-ADK]

Could not agree more with you both Doc and Grouse!

[ants]

People buy ammo in bulk because, like anything else, its way cheaper. I know guys who shoot 1000+ rounds a month all summer, pistol and rifle.

Anyone really think that this sick piece of sh..t would not have gone on a killing spree RightR if he only had 2 or 3 boxes of ammo at home??? REALLY???. Right

[NYbuck50]

It's not about why would you want 1000 rounds of ammo. Thats irrelevant, the point is its yet another way to stifle our liberties and moves us one step closer to the horrible europe style gun laws

Why is this a issue of right wing vs left wing. Sure seems like a reasonable requirement, why would a normal god fearing hunter be buying over a 1000 rounds at a time. If you are buying for a total of a gun club, maybe, but they are saying ou still could buy but just notify to verify why you have a need for 1000 + rounds...with the cost of BOX OF 308 CAL hunting shells I sure the most I ever purchased at one time was 3 boxs of 20 shells per box.

as a hunter I support this change to our laws.

[gunner1]

Why is this a issue of right wing vs left wing. Sure seems like a reasonable requirement, why would a normal god fearing hunter be buying over a 1000 rounds at a time. If you are buying for a total of a gun club, maybe, but they are saying ou still could buy but just notify to verify why you have a need for 1000 + rounds...with the cost of BOX OF 308 CAL hunting shells I sure the most I ever purchased at one time was 3 boxs of 20 shells per box.

as a hunter I support this change to our laws.

If you support this, then you are part of the problem. We have to stay TOGETHER against these anti gun idiotic politicians. Why does it matter if I want to buy three thousand rounds of ammo at one time? What's the difference if I buy 500 rounds six times or 3000 rounds at once? NONE! I'm kinda taken aback by your phrase "why would a normal god fearing hunter..." So if you buy more than 1000 rounds you're not normal? If I don't believe in god that implies there's something wrong with me? JUst because you don't do it or wouldn't do it doesn't make it wrong.

[ants]

Amen Gunner1.......So comp. shooters, trap shooters or any other legal responsible , non sick piece of crap, who buys ammo in bulk in not normal or god fearing?????? In the words of Dr. Evil...... rrrrright!!!!